Forced PVE

Why are we forced to do PVE content in order to progress in PVP I have fresh level 60 alts who i just want to play random BGs and have fun but turns ou i cant upgrade any gear i can buy from honor unless i have a way higher renown level. My alts are low enough gear as it is and i dont want to run pve i just want to play Bgs and get my gear there . They made it so pvp gear is lower in regular stuff any how so why is this road block here for pvp ppl ??

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Ideally the progression in PvE systems would be shared across all characters/faction, but that would mean less time on the game and less money for blizz.

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I always thought this was an interesting way of looking at it, because it is quite the opposite for me, and the vast majority of casual pvpers.

Being forced into pve grinds, having rating locks and gated upgrades for my gear…this keeps me from wanting to log in at all, it doesn’t increase my play time, it decreases it significantly.

If I were able to just pvp when I log in, if my gear wasn’t gated behind both rating and covenant level I would spent a lot more time logged in and doing what I want to do, which is battlegrounds. I could happily grind battlegrounds all day long for no reward (if templates were a thing, or conversely, if my gear was already maxed out)

The only thing that keeps me from playing more is actually Blizzard and their systems.

EDIT: I can totally see this being the case for PvE. PvE content requires these things because once you get the gear and achievements you want, there is zero need to repeat the content…so you need things in place to halt fast progression.

But pvp, the content is pvp. For arena players, you could give them a full set of maxed out pvp gear day one of the season and they will still play all season long because they are going for the rank and the title. The gear is not the reason for doing it.

The same goes for battlegrounds. Once you get the gear, what do you do with it? You pvp, you run battlegrounds every single say because that is the content…so effectively, the gear doesn’t need to be gated, because the content doesn’t have an expiration.

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Because warcraft is a primary pve game and pvp was added onto it.

The game is a PvE game, you gotta do some of it in order to do pvp, always been that way, always will be

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PvP was always present via wpvp.
BGs were added later after the initial launch only because it wasn’t finished by the time they wanted to release the game. It wasn’t added on as a “side project”, it was always an intended core element of the game. PvP was also interwoven as an endgame system alongside raids and dungeons. Contrary to popular smoothbrain belief, PvP is not a side game. It is the game.
It was only years later that raiding started taking great precendent over PvP because most players avoided it and/or rolled on PvE servers. And that’s fine if people don’t want to PvP. But this showed Blizz that the $$$ is in raids. That’s how we end up with todays “raid is everything” mentality from the developers and we wind up with neglected PvP (and general gameplay as a whole).

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WoW has always been, and always will be, a pve game with a pvp side attraction. No ifs ands or buts about it.

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“YoU aRenT ForCeD, YoU JuSt WonT Be AS CompeTive”

and if you think its just a pve game as a pvp side attraction, maybe you should tell blizz to stop trying to push the AWC like its some great amazing thing… since it is just a side attraction after all, why try to make an esport out of it?

And the Earth will always be flat. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Legion with all its fault was perfect for PvP only play on any toon, alts and all.

People are quitting WoW like never before. Perhaps this system to keep people playing longer is backfiring.

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At the very least one characters renown Ilvl unlocks should unlock the gear for your alts. Maybe by the end of expansion they will actually do what the players asked for at the start.

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If your argument is Wpvp means pvp was a mainstay on the game, you are either being willfully ignorant at best, or intentionally facetious at worst.

W pvp was nothing more then a “Ok well i guess you can kill each other now so…go for it.” it was never, and never will be balanced, see warmode for example of how “balanced” it currently is.

Pvp was intended to be in the game from the get go, yes, but it was scratched for pve first, IE, pve was the priority well over pvp.
PvP has always ALWAYS taken a back seat to pve content, proof of this is even when pvp was getting more love, all of the new content it got was at the start of the exp, and only ever got gear updates. See the BGs that were added, then never touched agian.

Its currently NOT raid is everything, its currently M+ is everything for pve, raiding has fallen to the wayside in favor of M+, the only notoriety that raids get is the M+ World first, after that no one cares. raiding currently is the worst gearing in the game bar none.

Trust me i really like pvp, but saying that its anything but a back burner piece of content is just not being honest with yourself.

You cant say pvp is a primary aspect of wow, simply look at all the content that can and is done with out stepping foot onto a battle ground or flagging yourself once. WoW is and forever will be primarily pve.

“if your point is that pvp has always been in the game then you is ig’nant!”
Lmao ok.

Ah right. The mechanic of fighting and killing other factions in a game set in a world of war and conflict was just a “sure ok I guess we can let them do that to each other” factor. Totes.

Because PvE is how you leveled and unlocked your skills.
The story and world-building (generalized as pve) is why it was priority.

Every BG has received updates.

Nah, I don’t trust clueless people.

And the main aspect of the game thorugh questing
And provided more content through dungeons of which vastly outnumbered battle ground
And through raids which dished out the best gear in the game
And how you upped professions.
And how you earned money to buy those skills
And how you earned gold to get your mounts
And how you got your enchants for your gear you got through pvp.

it goes on and on and on.

Pvp was always a second thought to the game. It was a bonus, it was the icying on the cake, it was never the main course.

This is 100% provable by the fact that we have FAR more pve content then pvp content. If pvp was a mainstay of the game, i would challenge you then to explain why we have not gotten a single pvp focused expansion, with the closest being, BFA, which ill be honest if you are use BFA as a shield for look how important and great pvp is to the game, thats a pretty weak shield considering BFA was not well received at all.

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Except it was in the game from day 1.
But hey you keep up with your narrative if you want lmao.

Because WoW is about the story and world.
You’re trying to argue that PvP is just some side mini game solely because there is more lore-building than BG maps.
:joy:

Because the majority of WoW players are not PvPers. Blizzard wants money.
That aside, what would a PvP expansion even be?
“Hey guys our new expansion gives you two new battlegrounds. That’s it. Nothing else in the game. Have fun!”

meaning that pvp is the after thought of content to the rest of the game.

Incorrect.
Developing primarily to cater to one aspect does not mean that the other part of the game is an afterthought. I’ve already explained how it has been a core part of the game since day 1.

Anyway, I’m done with this. No sense wasting further time with someone who thinks “pVp iS JuSt a sIdE GaMe”.

Ok i mean if thats the way you feel you can literally prove it statistically as well.

https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/achievements/achievement-category-15266

only 17% of the entire En wow population has gotten to honor level 50, thats only 10% of all honor levels, and not even a 5th of the population gets to it.

IM not saying pvp its not popular, im saying that it has always been a side thing to the rest of wow. Just like pet battles are, all be it far more popular then pet battles.

PvP has, and always will be, the second fiddle to pve, now, and forever. No level of complaining or crying will ever change that fact. if you wanna pvp, you gotta do a bit of pve as well.

Yeah, particularly Torghast is annoying. I don’t know about renown - I think they made it proc fast enough, so it may be just dropping from BGs, but if not, then renown would also be also annoying.

That you could kill players in the world does not make it a PVP system; as you point out, the honor system and BGs were intorduced months after launch. WoW is a PVE steak with a side order of PVP fries.

Stop blaming raiding for low player participation in PVP.

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this is Ion’s madness. He has fruitlessly tried to merge pvp and pve together for years and years. It doesn’t work. This is one of the biggest reasons for a decline in the pvp game since the end of MoP and the introduction of scaling.
Ilvl should just mean ilvl. They were on the right path with resilience. It was hard to pve and raid with pvp gear even though the ilvls for same level content were the same. EI) ranked pvp gear was same ilvl as raid gear BUT raid gear had stats necessary for pve and vice versa. I remember raiding with some pvp items and I would just go oom. My HPS was high but because I was stacked resilience I couldnt sustain in a raid setting so I had to get raid gear. I had to have two sets of items. Pve and Pvp. Why did that go away?