Which reminds me of something, so I’ll use an anecdotal example.
Back when I was terrible at keys(still am), I had trouble completing keys and would either join or make my own “completion for weekly” groups.
So the idea that everyone agreed to is that the timer did not matter and we were there just to complete it. These runs always resulted in spending an hour or more completing the dungeon.
It was very slow and miserable and I imagine it’s exactly what it would look like for many of the people here that are against a timer. Even for those that claim they don’t want to spend 3 hours in a dungeon.
My hunter and all those dead orcish protection warriors in her wake disagree. PvP is a good indicator of what you can out-DPS and what you can’t in PvE, because you are using all your CDs there simply to survive.
Because it’s a stress factor. It always is. Just look at all the complaints about the turn limit in Xcom2. Same deal. The missions are easily completable by a novice within the time limit, more often than not. BUT it stresses people out and that means they end up hating it.
Personally, I don’t think timers are hard, but, I play on an RP server, and a timer means I can’t RP in a dungeon with my friends who also RP. This is bad from my personal playing perspective.
Maybe. If it takes a group three hours to run this content and get their high-end weekly chest and it takes another group the same amount of time to complete a 15 key, then I’d call that an equal exchange. However, if the weekly chest is the goal, then M+ will undoubtedly be faster for those who can do both and are comfortable in both.
Nah, it’s just a give-and-take sort of design concept. If you min/max your group composition and you’ve stacked the class/spec ‘deck’ such that you are stronger on the Intro Boss than you would be in a multi-target situation, then you will have done so knowing you are creating a situation in which you are slowing yourself down on trash. If you don’t stack your party that way, you’ll do less damage on the intro boss, but you also wouldn’t need to burn Lust on every pack.
Now, is that a fine difficulty line to hit? Yes, very difficult to target that with tuning. But we’re working in hypotheticals here, so for the sake of general design, I’m assuming that’s possible.
I understand, but I don’t think removing the timer is going to be a real solution and might just switch the roles.
Cause I personally do not want the idea on the back of my head that we might be spending 3 hours trying to clear this dungeon because there really is no incentive to be efficient.
I think torghast has achieved a good balance between no timer/timer. And I see it as exactly what many of you are asking for.
I agree. Unfortunately, I also see it as content limited to a single expansion. If it’s good and the people who don’t like timers love it, then perhaps Blizzard will make a dungeon mode similar to it to keep that group happy going forward and this whole thread will be pointless.
It makes me happy to see someone say this, as it means that you have a grasp of iterative design processes, which is something that, sadly, much of the gaming community as a whole (and do keep in mind, I use the term community very loosely) doesn’t seem to understand or perhaps just doesn’t have the patience for.
Blizzard likes to dip their toes into a design concept before diving into it. Unfortunately, the time differential between dipping their toes in and diving in tends to be about two years. If that’s their design intent with Torghast, they could quash some of the griping about M+ by simply saying so, but since Blizzard also has trouble communicating clearly with us…
Fat chance on that.
In the meantime, here I am trying to help people who don’t feel like they’re being heard feel instead that they are, or at least that they have a chance to be.
So far, it’s been every single one, consistently, in 1 vs 1 situations. Most of them in 2 vs 1. So, given the large sample size, I refuse to believe that they’re all bad players. Quite a few of them were in my face consistently because protection has a lot of gap closers, but in terms of raw attrition, they could not keep up with a properly built hunter.
Eh, not every. Palas can be a serious problem. Protection warriors, so far, haven’t, even if some were close. I assume it has to do with their lack of self-healing ability without trash-mobs to kill around them. When I’m on my own, I sometimes run into easy to kill mobs simply to heal myself. I…don’t really see that often though.
I absolutely love pvp. If Rinzel can stomp me on their warrior, major kudos to them
My opinion? Do away with M+ in general. I liked the idea of “Harder than Heroic” dungeons, but I absolutely LOATHE the state that M+ dungeons have evolved into.
You know what I want? SOmething more similar to the original Heroics in BC. Once clear a day, Lockouts so you cant keep spamming the same place, unique loot tables, not just ilvl boosts to the same sword based on N/H/M+.
Mythic Dungeons should be their own tier of difficulty, likely on par with the lowest ilvl (LFR equivalent) of Raid gear. You get ONE lockout per dungeon, per week, but maybe with a special currency like the Bonus Roll mechanic that gives you guarenteed items or a bad luck mechanic from each Dungeon that gives you a random item from that Zone if you didnt get anything else.
In practice:
Normals are for leveling/quests.
Heroics are for getting geared up for entry tiers of Raids.
Mythics come out at the same time as LFR, and are an alternative to raiding, as well as a catch-up mechanic for people returning later in an xpac, as LFR updates, so do the ilvl drops from Mythic.
