You can’t get the Shadowlands PVP gear as far as I can see. You can buy the trinkets for 800g each. I may be wrong but I don’t see the gear at 60, it’s cosmetic only.
I always used to push this that PVP needs to be fixed at the ground level to be remotely viable for someone to venture into BGs and try PVP out. I gave up. Blizzard is not interested in developing that idea further.
It happens in ESO too, twinks (sweats in ESO) dominating PVP and potential players just give up, and revert to PVE or quit the game completely.
The mess that Party Sync is in PVP just proves it’s not even on their radar to fix.
However, this expansion has incentivized me to play level 70 PVP, where I never touched SL. Now I can’t stand low-level PVP, I get my 15.000 honor and wait until I’m 70.
2 Likes
In the honor grind on my MM i got one useful piece of gear from the box that I replaced for an AH green after one BG where I did not level.
1 Like
Why go through the trouble of syncing when i can do that at max?
1 Like
For the sake of end game PvP? Fix low level brackets? Am I following this right? So the guys who are pushing rating at 70 in rated PvP are somehow affected by the guys in low level PvP brackets? Is that the leap we are making?
No “end game” pvp player cares about low level brackets. Grind up to 70 as quick as possible, get conq gear and go ham in rated play! If you’re saying that more participation would happen by making low bracket pvp “kinder and gentler” you are way wrong!
The only way to increase participation is to make sure 70 pve players can access 70pvp. Which is why they got rid of stats like resilience and made it really easy to gear up. Like easier than m+.
Everyone knows that if you are asking for scaling it’s to bandaid a much deep problem. Scaling never works. Trust me , as a pvp player we had to work through scaling nightmare in bfa. Scaling is the worst thing to happen to pvp
I think the argument was supposed to be that if the low level pvp brackets arent fixed, new players wont get into pvp, and that means there wont be enough pvpers to get stomped on by the lifetime glads… or something
1 Like
Yeah haha I don’t know what to say other than I suppose in theory there is some logic deep down there somewhere. But the leveling process is so fast no one freakin levels in PvP.
If they really wanted to make PvP more inclusive and to boost participation they should allow some kind of transformation in pve gear to PvP. For example a raider can zone in with four piece pve tier set and it just changes to PvP stats. And they can maybe be involved in the process. I’m in a large cool guild and so many 70 pve players say “I really wanna try PvP but I don’t want to grind out the gear”. Not because they are lazy but because they sunk all their time into getting their pve gear and then having to do all that for pvp gear? Ain’t no one for time for that! If you have a pve player who has the same ilvl as me 424 pvp in pve and you turn around and say “ok cool pve gear bro but if you wanna pvp you gotta go and get a whole new set of pvp gear” they just say F it.
Low level brackets got nothing to do with it. Gear does and always will be the hang up between pve and pvp
Elitism. So short-sighted, and not looking at the bigger picture. Your take is the same as the majority. We all started out in this game once.
This proves how out of touch you are with low-level PVP.
It’s not an argument. It’s an idea that if you make PVP more enjoyable throughout the levels you will get more participation, and some players will carry on to end game PVP.
3 Likes
No, Souldrake is right lol. You can’t deny that.
This is how it works. When the lower brackets are healthy, it just so happens (usually) that end game follows with the same health. Also in reverse too.
I wouldn’t be so focused on appeasing new players, the current population should be made happy first. Everything else will follow.
Hopping into matches which are feeling like another game I haven’t ever played;
Will this lobby have exploiters? Are we starting 6v10 again? Three healers vs 0 on a big map? Insert x broken class here etc. Mismatching on the regular.
This is stuff which would/should and could change things for the better.
1 Like
I think the problems of leveling BGs are being mirrored at max level now. I use the example of my MM, more dangerous at 61-69 than when I leveled him. I ran 20s on my MW, granted without their escapes they’re too squishy but it was devastating. I’d rather level in dungeons or even questing. Can’t imagine a new player coming in, wanting to try pvp and omg I was dead the entire time because they camped the GY from start to end and wouldn’t end the match because they wanted to farm HKs.
The reason pvp in its current state is not drawing in new players is because of
- Most classes have a complicated rotation for new players ( 2-3 buffs on rotations and 2-3 cds to burst ) make it difficult for average / casual players to compete
- The burst is too high for new players that don’t know their class to feel fluid. ———Making wow an esport only works well for the high end players and people who no life it
- Healers don’t wanna heal because of burst and it doesn’t feel good to just be behind and outs mana the whole fight while being expected to or have to do damage to make your spec work.
In ending I have to feel that the decline in the pvp player base is all due to e league burst and over complicating the specs and the game , and having to fit the over complication into a short burst window.
I came back to wow after 6 years off, I quit at the very beginning of legion and to say it bluntly this current state of bing bang boom your dead burst is garbage and will continue to push players away from pvp. If people wanted to play a first person shooter they would pick up D2 …….make wow great again
2 Likes
Agreed you forgot one thing. 4. The elitist and toxic player base in PVP (Not all)
1 Like
i played on retaliation battlegroup back in the day. I always did bgs while leveling, probably even more so before they started giving exp honestly cause the blues were nice and beat RNG dungeon drops for consistency lol.
Twinks existed ofc, but honestly it wasn’t rampant. Depended on the time of day or something. I’d say a good 2/3rds of the time there was one low effort twink who could be stopped with general coordination or even 1v1’d. That other 1/3 it was a proper Twink with the good BoE’s and enchants and librams etc. And even then they weren’t really that big a deal. Nobody had mounts so really avoiding the twink was generally pretty easy.
A lot of this is only true because everyone sucked back then, so not sucking (Wow wasn’t my first mmo so even back then I had keybindings which despite being bad at the game put me ahead in 2005 lol.) generally meant you could kill twinks or at least survive in a lot of scenarios.
So,
I’ve gotta disagree. I’ll say that the 30-39 AB bracket was probably the most rife with them, if I queued that I knew I’d be getting deleted by warrior twinks and stuff. But generally speaking it was a pleasant experience. And hoenstly due to how class design was back then. I didn’t hate fighting twinks as a non twink. Seeing those shiny enchanted warrior twinks running at you was like idk. Fighting the adults in martial arts class. You knew you didn’t stand a chance but it was fun to throw yourself at them and just see what you could do. Maybe that’s just me.
Also the 51-60 AV bracket was super fun and twinks can’t compare to 60s. Same in TBC 61-70 was some of the most fun even as the underleveled.
In the modern game that experience doesn’t really repeat - Not on live. Something about the modern class design & the player power being separated into different procs, stats & talents really removes the agency from doing damage. I don’t feel responsible for the things I kill. They just were victim to a cooldown. And this echoes at low level where I can be a class without a cooldown, or without a proc so my damage is more of a wet noodle than non-twinking ever was.
3 Likes
Shame some of our “friends” aren’t so on board for that, but I find it fantastic that you are espousing this! I knew you would come around ^^ /gnome hug
Good news! We already scale. Check your before and after stats, the only time you might not scale is level x9 but I only saw that at 69. Thing is, we only scale up not down which is where people can gain a gear advantage.
There are several ways people can gain advantage including consumables and class stacking. An argument might be made that scaling should be a little higher or maybe higher ilvl should scale down but I doubt it would resolve the current issues. People will party up 5 fotm classes where balance exceeds any potential ilvl disadvantage and levelers will favor those classes as well. Even before party sync and without twinks low level BGs had an awful lot of hunters.
I agree with most of the post, but I think this may have been due to your battlegroup. I played with < We Kill People > from Tortheldrin back in the day and another guild whose names escape me, on Rivendare. We were everywhere. It wasn’t uncommon for us to be in a group of 10 and only have 2-3 non-twinks on our team. M-F we were in the normal queues and it was a slaughter. Saturday and Sunday we had scheduled war games with other clans.
1 Like
I remember accidentally queuing low level in Wrath before the separation, it was a long time before I queued low level after that. I want the twinks to find a place either through scaling and maybe team restrictions or at least being given a venue to play their characters but I suspect there aren’t as many as there once were and not as much demand as when they last separated the queues.