Flying basically non exsistant

what content does it skip other then useless trash on your way to wqs ?

By the time most people have hit max level , they’ve seen the content.

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If that’s the case then why are there 14 flight paths in Zuldazar alone? I skip content all the time there I just ride to my world quests, and use flight master’s whistle, and the flight path to get out of there. I have not completed Zuldazar on any toon, and will only do it because i want to fly. If I had flying available I would have it finished on every character
. Check my questing achievements. I’ve not only completed the seeker achievement long, long ago back in 2010, it’s been so long I forgot the date. I completed it on my herbalist warlock just a few days ago. Plus the countless dailies and world quests I’ve done. I had the 10000 dailies achievement 3 years ago, and I’ve completed 1500 world quests, and working on the 2000 mark now.
I don’t have lore master in the old world or in Outlands I should get off my butt and finish them the old world quests reset with Cata so I didn’t finish them in time.
People did not use flying to skip content in Mop, nor did they in Wrath.
Wrath and Cata had quests designed around using flying to complete them. Now we die of boredom waiting for flying.

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My point is that if we zoom out a little bit it is very easy to see that travel in WOW is much less hassle than it used to be. Even in the “good old days” of flying when we could buy it with gold.

To your point, maybe I did make too broad of an example, but I am willing to bet that I can travel just about as quickly using the flight whistle + flithpaths as flying in a straight line from A to B. Assuming I’m not trying to cross the map every 5 minutes, which would be inefficient, regardless.

It is definitely not worth all of the complaints that it has garnered, flight is nice but it is hardly game breaking. Even running around as a dps I don’t get dismounted or turned around too often, as a tank I don’t get dazed at all. Some people make it out like the game is just unplayable without flight.

LOL. ZThere are 14 Fps because the devs would rather piddle away development time, resources and money devising alternatives to player flight instead of just letting you fly.

#Pathfinder sucks

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That is true, if where you want to go is next to a flight point where the whistle will take you or where that flight point can take you. I just did a lot of quests today in Stormsong Valley where the quest turn in on many of the quest was no where near a flight point. Neither the whistle nor any flight point would help getting from A to B in those instances. It wasn’t a hassle getting there, as I’m leveling and killing on the way, bonus in my opinion. But at max level, I’d rather be able to fly from those two points as I don’t need the extra kills.

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Fiction for sure, you can’t begin to speak for Blizzard!
When they introduced flying, it was super awesome, they plugged it hard, and never did they think right then that they would regret it. We then had 2 more whole expacs where flying was achieved as soon as or right before level cap.
They have done a complete reversal of their feelings on player flight, and it’s none of that hogwash you stated.

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No. But I can read what they already said on the subject.

Having looked at how flying has played out in the old world in the last couple of expansions, we realized that while we were doing it out of this ingrained habit after we introduced flying in The Burning Crusade, it actually detracted from gameplay in a whole lot of ways," Hazzikostas explains. “While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what’s in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there.”

Hazzikostas gives an example: Before flying was introduced to World of Warcraft, if you got a quest to rescue a prisoner from an enemy encampment, it would play out a certain way. Players would need to fight their way through the camp. After flying, players could just fly into the center of camp, land on top of the hut where the prisoner is, free him and fly out.
“It made the world feel in many ways much smaller,” he says.
Originally, Blizzard took out flying in Warlords of Draenor as an experiment, and Hazzikostas says he would have bet “slightly better than even money at the time” that they were going to bring it back eventually. But as they played the expansion and watched others play it, they discovered that they liked the game better without flying.

“The world feels larger, feels more dangerous,” he says. “There’s more room for exploration, for secrets, for discovery and overall immersion in the world. At this point, we feel that outdoor gameplay in World of Warcraft is ultimately better without flying. We’re not going to be reintroducing the ability to fly in Draenor, and that’s kind of where we’re at going forward.”
Hazziokostas confirms that this direction includes future expansions, though he doesn’t discount the possibility of adding flight options in to specific expansion ideas or zones that would benefit from it. In general, though, he believes that exploration in Blizzard’s massive world “works better and feels better in our view when you’re doing it from the ground.”
https://www.polygon.com/2015/5/22/8645293/world-of-warcraft-no-flying-tanaan-jungle-warlords-of-draenor-mmo-pc-blizzard

I guess the lead dev doesn’t speak for Blizzard either, eh?

Wrath was specifically created with flying in mind. That is the exception, not the rule. As the above quote indicates they learned from this experience.

And on what are you basing your assumptions about their feelings?

  1. The lack of flying doesn’t personally bother me. I’m fine without it.
  2. However, it’s obviously a major sticking point for a lot of players. And, given this, I don’t see why Blizz has to be so stubborn about it. Why is it more important to them than making their players happy?
  3. I’m not suggesting that flying should just be handed to players on a platter. Make em get revered with X faction, make em do a loooong quest chain, and charge them a bucketload of gold. Just don’t do this ridiculous Pathfinder Parts 1 & 2 thing. And don’t be under any illusions, it IS ridiculous and completely unjustifiable.
  4. And make flying a feature of your xpacs. Have some non-scaling 120 content in every zone that can only be accessed by flying.
  5. And if some players then use flying to skip or trivialise some content… don’t get so worked up about it. You’re not the boss of them. Let players experience the game you’ve created in whatever way they like.
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I don’t even care anymore. My character doesn’t leave the AH. 2-3 days a month I log in, make a bunch of gold, turn that gold into store money and buy new games that offer front loaded fun. Let them keep their time gated flying and rep locked races. At least Destiny 2 allows me to teleport around the map, have unlimited boosters on my mount and movement abilities that aren’t on any real CD to speed me along when I’m not able to mount or tele. My dislike for unnecessary and time consuming travel has burnt me out on wow. Spending 5-10 minutes to get to a 30 second kill quest is just not all that fun for me. I’m bored by the time I get anywhere and lose all interest in what I was going there to do.

That’s likely to be because there’ll be no one playing.

It didn’t. Lack of flight is what’s now killing it.

The hassle is not fun. IMO, it is anti-fun. Ergo, flying is more fun.

No it’s not - see hassle.

They don’t seem to realise that people have worked to get flight already and that paying for it time and time again is neither fun nor is something we should have to do.

In Cata flying was always available.

No, it actually wasn’t. It was added as a feature of the game.

This may come as a surprise but you can’t actually bypass parts of the game. You have to play them to advance in the game, to advance the story.

If 8.2 is underwater then I won’t be coming back next month. Hell, I’m only here now because I wanted to do some research for my fanfic.

Actually, I probably won’t be coming back as this not being able to fly really grates.

Actually, I don’t know why I’m commenting - must be bored. This has all been said before and Blizzard, who no longer understand their player base (really, read an interview the other day where everything the lead developer said proved it), will continue using flying as a time gate and so keep losing players.

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Glad it’s not available in new content. Hope it never changes.

Yes, I remember all my hours of flying around Vashjir (sp).

…to allow faster travel in old content. That’s why there were two different requirements in BC to fly on Azeroth and Outland.

Ok then. I’ll just let Ion from three years ago address this point.

While there was certainly convenience in being able to completely explore the world in three dimensions, that also came at the expense of gameplay like targeted exploration, like trying to figure out what’s in that cave on top of a hill and how do I get up there.” Hazzikostas gives an example: Before flying was introduced to World of Warcraft, if you got a quest to rescue a prisoner from an enemy encampment, it would play out a certain way. Players would need to fight their way through the camp. After flying, players could just fly into the center of camp, land on top of the hut where the prisoner is, free him and fly out. “It made the world feel in many ways much smaller,” he says.

Yep. So do I - I even got a Seahorse.

Nope.
gamespot.
articles/world-of-warcraft-the-burning-crusade-qanda-questions-for-the-lead-designer/1100-6146909/

Link broken because it won’t allow me to post them.

Flying was added as a feature. Later developers have removed that feature.

You couldn’t fly in Azeroth until Cata. The way the world was made wouldn’t support it. When Cata rolled round if you had flight you could fly in Azeroth.

Did you note that you had to do the content?

Fighting through a heap of random mobs on the road and having to solve jump puzzles isn’t content and doesn’t add to the game. Such bollocks can be said to break the Suspension of Disbelief.

The problem wasn’t the flying - it was that they weren’t putting in enough content.

Instead of putting the Bad Guy in the middle of a camp and open to the sky put him in a castle or a tent so that the player has to go through the guards.

If you think a seahorse can fly maybe you should take a marine biology class.

And I can’t get the link to work either. But for the sake of argument I’ll take this one on faith, even though I have no idea who JK is.

Added meaning it wasn’t part of the original design of the game. Yes, they experimented with it. Even then it was in a limited fashion as there were still requirements to unlock it in current content. Usually it was reaching a certain level and spending a considerable amount of gold. Not one expansion launched with flying in new content allowed from the get-go.

Bull. Azeroth flying was introduced during BC. I specifically remember that period of going back and forth between Outland and Ironforge and having to switch between flying and ground mounts. I also remember grinding for weeks to unlock it at level 70 for BC content.

I’m not sure what you’re asking here. Have I stated that new content must be completed to some extent to unlock flying in that content? Yes, that’s kinda the entire premise I’m laying out.

In your opinion. Of course that’s like saying that apples aren’t really fruit because I don’t like apples.

In your opinion. I would argue that the sheer volume of posts complaining about having too much content and wishing for a way to bypass it counters that claim. Just look at all the people who don’t want to do warfronts, islands, WPvP, M+, rep grinds, WQs, and raid. The content is there. Players are simply turning their noses up at it.

You vastly underestimate people’s desire and ability to cheese. Just look at the uproar when players were told that certain soloable WQs would no longer be permitted in the group finder. If they can avoid spending a whole five minutes doing a quest or dungeon or anything the right way they will.

I fully endorse Blizzard encouraging people to actually play the game in the world they created instead of cruising above it at 30,000 feet like they’re on a United flight.

They will, when the game puts out content that is enjoyable to play, then people do not need cheap time gates and trickery to make them play it. The content should hold up all on it’s own. Period. The fact that they time gate like this shows me they lack the ability to make good content that players want to play. So they have to FORCE them to play it. Funny how this was never really an issue until WoD, which was made by the same Dev team that’s working now. The lack of content there was 1000% their fault then. Now they fear that happening again, so they gate everything. They STILL aren’t putting out good content that keep players playing for long periods of time, same as WoD, but with the gates, it makes it appear like they are. People are already bored and leaving and flying isn’t even in the game yet. Their new stance on flight has done nothing good for this game, and continues to be a main reason people keep unsubbing to this day.

I think it’s time to start realizing that this is not a player issue anymore. It’s a Dev issue in that they can no longer make good, enjoyable content that players want to keep doing. (Want being the keyword there.) And instead make content that is not enjoyable, but we are forced to do it even if we don’t want to. Only other choice we have to that is to stop playing.

Dealing with trash mobs between world quests and dailies is not meaningful content. People skip what is wasteful and pointless. Grinds and dailies is not fulfilling content because it’s repeated and has the ability to cause huge burn out. Taking flying away only causes burn out so much faster, because it makes doing these mundane tasks even more painful then they should be. People do not like being inconvenienced. It’s a HUUUUGE turn off. Giving players options to make these taskes MORE fun to do, is a good thing. Why take something fun away from people who use that something to make the game more enjoyable for them? You are just driving more of your customers away. It makes no sense.

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I think they meant they remember being able to fly in Vashjir. I flew there a lot. I would fly to the area I would need to be at and then I’d go down and use my seahorse to get to where I’m going. The majority of my travel in that place was in the air though. Which is nice because I dislike underwater zones. Even now when I go to kill rares there, I fly to where they are and then take my seahorse down. But I certainly don’t swim around the place anymore than I need to and most of the direction I swim is down and up unless I’m going a very short distance.

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At the same time, however, the difference between the two approaches (modulo edge cases like winding paths in Zuldazar or High Mountain) is not great. It’s not 50% faster. It may not even be 10% faster all told.

I was doing WQs with a guy in Stormheim once. We’d clear a zone, point to another one, and off we’d go. I’d mount up, fly over, and just as I was about to engage, here would come the other guy.

It didn’t even occur to me until the 3rd one that he could not fly (at which point I carried him). It wasn’t like I was sitting around /tapping waiting for him to show up. He was usually “just about there” each time.

Translation: I want to farm stuff faster than the other guy so i make more gold than him, therefore this is bad game design because i cannot have the upper hand.

It is funny to me how many flying posts people still need to make and all the unneeded arguments about it. It doesn’t matter how many threads you make on flying, or all the whining about it, or saying how you feel it should be because it has nothing to do with what we want. It was 100% on Blizzard. They didn’t remove flying because people were asking for it, they removed it for their reasons they gave.

You should be thankful they caved in to us and at least gave us flying back. I am pro flying but also understand that it is either pathfinder 1 & 2 or no flying at all. I will take pathfinder 1 & 2 any day of the week over no flying. Blizzard is not going to cave in again any time soon to your whiny flying threads. They gave their compromise. It is there game. You can either stay and do it if you want flying or cancel your sub and go play another mmo which doesn’t have flying except FFXIV which only allows flying from t he expansion it came out in and beyond (unless they fixed that).

People can keep saying, “Flying was never an issue until Blizzard made it one.” all they want. Not going to change the fact they want people to actually play the game they built for us. Might not have been an issue for them in the past, but it obviously became one for them in WoD. Again, it is THEIR GAME. You are paying for access to their server. Paying a monthly fee doesn’t make you owners of the game. Blizzard still decides what is best for their game. You can’t go to Disneyland and demand you skip all lines because you paid an admission fee.

If flying is the sole purpose you play WoW, then maybe it is time to move on.

The point is that the last time they removed flight they got told by their bosses to put it back in, but they are butt hurt that the players didnt like their “vision”.

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