And I point to you how it is an outright lie, and you still can’t accept it? Need a smacking mate.
False. Again. Taken from wowpedia : Apprentice Crispin is one of the leper gnomes in the service of the Forsaken.
Lol.
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Here we go… the “other races aren’t as bad” argument… which has been debunked over and over.
Humans ran a prison camp where orcs were not just abused and forced to fight, but outright tortured. Remember Garithos and his men, how they treated their own allied High elves? With imprisonment and intentions to kill them all as a race. Night elves are the race that opened up the world to Sargeras and damaged Azeroth, per Azshara and her high mages. In the game, humans also regularly don’t aid their own alliance members, causing the original rift between High elves… but also doing basically nothing for the gnomes, and the pre-Worgen humans even bailing on their SW cousins. Anduin helping Saurfang and the Horde instead of doing much of anything for Tyrande.
Again: no one is arguing that the Forsaken or other races of the Horde haven’t done some evil or some questionable things. But neither are the Alliance races pure and shiny examples of goodness. Unless you play both sides and see all the quests, you’ll have a tendency to see your own faction as the the more morally justified one.
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Showing that I’m lacking knowledge is not proving a lie. You should talk about smacking.
I thought that you were talking about the Humans, Dwarves, and Night Elves being experimented on. Not the Lepergnomes.
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You were the one coming in and saying that Forsakens were evil because of the human plantation, among other things. I pointed out to you that the only one responsible for this was Warden Stillwater. This is fact. Hence Forsakens evil 'causer of it = lie.
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Do the Orcs still have Slave Gladiators fighting in Orgrimar?
That’s one guy.
I love how you have to go back before other races existed for this and then gloss over the entire history of the game to make this point.
Just because they are not playable it doesn’t mean that there is still a rift between high elves and Humans, just Blood ELves and Humans.
Hard to do when they either keep you ignorant or just act on their own telling you to hold back.
One Kingdom that went into civil war over isolation?
He set Suarfang free, and showed no intentions to stop, he actually encouraged Graymane to join Tyrande. Then again, she’s been incommunicado for a while.
Again, the FOrsaken have done the most evil things.
Yes it is a fact.
But you still ignore the rest of it, all of which is very evil. In fact you even helped me make my point once as pointed out above.
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Not just BfA, recton everything from WoD onward.
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Pretty much this. What Pyrogar said.
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(Have only read the OP, not the responses so far. Sure there’s a ton of “No, this isn’t out of character.”)
I don’t think this suggestion will be popular with the folks on this board, but I’d play it.
There is a lot of what looks a lot like MC’d undead night elves, having Sylvanas and Nathanos go through the same thing is somewhat believable.
Naham, you seem absolutely intent on taking over this thread with a tangent that has been debunked repeatedly. Pointing to other wrongs by different races doesn’t strengthen your arguments. But you have a very narrow view of how those things are perceived. Orgrimmar’s gladiators aren’t simply prisoners who are abused, it’s part of their culture and considered an honor to participate (especially if you’re a POW). There’s no comparison at all to the prison camps run by the Humans for the orcs, it’s a different kettle of fish that would take way too long to explain (especially when you aren’t what this thread was intended for originally). Garithos wasn’t “just one guy” either, all of his men were fine with intending genocide against the high elves. You also don’t get to ignore prior history just because you think it’s better for your arguments. You take all the history or nothing, you don’t get to cherry-pick.
Can we get back to the intended topic, or are you going to continue forcing people to correct your ignorance and misperceptions, making it all about you?
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No, lets go further. Retcon everything from Cataclysm onward. Better yet, everything after WC3 TFT.
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Sylvanas is a great planner until things dont go her way or emotional pressure is applied
While it hasn’t been debunked, at all, I’d rather move on.
Very evil is pushing it. For all we know, as I said, it might be an attempt to demoralize the SC to leave them the f*** alone.
In your eyes, or character’s eyes, the Gnome testing inventions on animals might not be “evil”. But in this grand world, there’s folks that’s gonna see it as evil. You even have a faction on yer side that is/was hellbent on protecting Nature. The druids might see it as evil. So don’t try brushing it off. There’s evilness in the gnomes, even if they’re the goofy race of the alliance.
Read up on WWII, it’s that evil.
No, it’s evil, but I’ll save a person over a rabbit or chicken any day.
What’s your thoughts on the Opening Post?
Saying it was Sylvanas (more) evil twin wouldn’t improve the narrative, it would save Sylvanas in the eyes of her fans.
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Ehh, I don’t really find that necessary tho. Contrary to popular belief, I really don’t think Cataclysm was that bad from a narrative perspective. If they just made it so it was Malf and Thrall being the co-reps for both factions rather than it just being all Thrall, it would honestly solve quite a few problems people had with Cata.
Then again, I wouldn’t mind having Cairne or Cho’gall back.
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Rhuna, I agree it would benefit Sylvanas fans more than help fix everything wrong with the narrative. It wouldn’t fix the fact that most of the Horde was complicit with the burning of Teldrassil and so on. But it might be a start.
Is there anything that could help fix the narrative? I’m against the idea that some kind of time travel (again) would fix things, mainly becaus that would just be more weak writing.
This is where most people got it wrong. Might be because how Golden twitted that she took the Nuremberg Trials as an “inspiration” for War Crimes. Forsakens have more of a WWI feel than a WWII one.
What I have the biggest problem with in BfA is that Horde players were forced to be complicit in war crimes against innocents, or just stop playing. We went from being heroes at the end of Legion (and yeah, I know canonically the Alliance is supposed to have won that one)… but even sticking with that, my main (this mage) was back to being trusted in Dalaran and even effectively leading the Kirin Tor. Then right at the outset of BfA suddenly I’m complicit in being a murderer of innocents. Nothing came along to give me any resolution to that, not Saurfang’s vague rebellion, no Horde pride as promised by the devs/writers.
I guess at this point I’m waiting for just about anything to repair that, which may not be fixable at this point.
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