Are you completely canceling the animation or are you performing the double jump to glide, then canceling? If it’s the second, I don’t see how this process isn’t equivalent to a GCD.
This is about the best I think we could get at the moment with utilizing Demonic window for Annihilation/Deathsweep dmg, Immo dmg feeding into a Bloodlet build for AoE/M+. There is obviously other options for momo for that type of play and building out certain talents for more ST
My first thought on looking at the Havoc tree is that there are a bunch of odd placements for talents. Others have already brought this up both in this thread and the official DH thread on the Alpha forums, so I won’t bother repeating them.
The biggest problem that I see is with the talent, Know Your Enemy. No one else has brought this up, but it creates exponential scaling for crit chance. For example, at 10% chance to crit it would increase those 10% crits by 10%, resulting in an overall 1% dps increase, which is tiny. But, at 50% chance to crit your 50% of crits would do 50% more damage, resulting in a 25% DPS increase. If we could get 100% chance to crit it would increase our DPS by a further 100%. Above 100% crit chance it would scale linearly. This seems so insane that I’m questioning my own math.
It’s currently possible to get close to 40% chance to crit, if crit rating is stacked. Add in crit trinkets and the new talent, Initiative and the value of Know Your Enemy becomes so high that taking it and stacking crit would become required, no matter what build you want to play. Just using napkin math, this talent would add 20-40% increased DPS when stacking crit, maybe higher depending on how much of our total damage Eye Beam ends up being. That is far too high for a single talent point.
I see two easy solutions. Either make it so that KYE only affects Eye Beam so that the scaling is linear (my napkin math says it would still add 6-10% DPS at high crit when playing a build that maximizes Eye Beam damage), or remove it entirely and replace it with the talent Ragefire, which would fit better on the crit side of the tree than where it is now.
My other piece of feedback is with Fel Bombardment. Since Throw Glaive does physical damage it has no synergy with the final talent on the right, Any Means Necessary. This could be remedied by putting the PvP talent, Chaotic Imprint, on the right side of the Havoc tree somewhere.
First of all I want to express my concern regarding Momentum, Glide, Demonic/Demonic Origins, Cycle of Hatred and Shattered Destiny. I’m afraid that a good crit and haste gear with such talents could lead to too high a percentage of the combined Meta and Momentum damage windows, this could end up with the base damage of our abilities being too low for any other build that does not combine Meta and Momentum to be feasible.
Inner Demon tends to be a VERY buggy talent, to the point where with each patch his fix tends to break, I don’t feel very comfortable seeing him again, at least not if it’s going to work with the old move mechanic.
Blade Dance without Fury cost reduction? seriously?
now, with this worrys out of me chest
The Insatiable Hunger/Demon Blade node feels out of place, I think it should be on or near the center lane.
Initiative and Chaos Theory I think they should switch places
I think Improved Fel Rush should be removed and Unbound Chaos put in its place.
Any Means Necessary sounds like a really cool talent, but his path is kind of annoying
I don’t think I’ll be able to comment on anything else without trying the class firsthand.
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It’s not equivalent to a GCD because Glide doesn’t trigger a GCD. Go log into the game and hit a target dummy and tell me if you can hit chaos strike within the same window you cast Glide.
Once you’ve seen it for yourself get a good feel for it cos that’s going to be the new havoc meta if this doesn’t get fixed. 
Agree, certain things like that should be a neutral position between playstyles, shouldnt have to venture down one side of the tree to unlock that when youre going down the complete opposite side in my opinion.
Also, I feel CoH is on the wrong side of the talent tree, it should be more middle to right side.
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Well, that would maybe be intentional to have players flesh out their character.
Which is stupid since we’re also supposed to be able to flip talents around at will.
But having something that is utilized by all builds whether its Demons Bite or Demon Blades should be central and neutral or first row. CoH shouldn’t be the 2nd to last option, especially in the Momo build. Mainly because CoH is not a playstyle, its just a tool that benefits one build or another and can benefit more than one at that.
Another thing that’s got me pensive about these trees are how much the core tree leans either to utility or resource generation. Considering resource generation translate directly into DPS there’s a lot of disincentive to bring things like an AoE silence or fear that would otherwise be available for vengeance.
Just look at all the people in this thread who are frustrated to see Blade Dance without a fury cost reduction - if they can dip into the core tree and spec out of valuable utility to heighten their fury generation, why wouldn’t they?
Its strange they put the fundamental builder style of play option choice talent demon blades way down on the right under all the immo aura talents. That should be somewhere near the top or not connected to the aoe talents somehow. But also the fel rush damage boost is locked behind it? This is really out of place
A good candidate for the neutral down the middle type talents
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Ya, it’s kind of crap to have to go up the wrong side of the tree to get what feels like an important talent.
Maybe the intent for Left (Momentum) is that the player rarely or never needs to generate Fury directly using Demon’s Bite. It’s possible to have both VR and IA generate passive Fury, although when I specced I did have to leave off Netherwalk to do so.
Between those two generators and Eye Beam generation, we may not need Demon Blades.
I’m more annoyed with the right side placement of Unbound Chaos. While that talent is an AE ability, I don’t feel that it fits the otherwise stationary play of the right side. And unlike Serrated Glaive which is an AE ability on the left side, it cannot be avoided in the AE build.
I also hate the fact that Imprison on the class tree is built on Throw Glaive skills. This does not make sense. That makes Imprison a 4 point cost. I hope no one expects me to have CC abilities come Dragon Flight.
I tested this. i can see what you’re saying but it would be really clunky. i never hotkeyed the actual skill “glide” which doesn’t require double jump. I’ve always just double-jump glided, which would make this cancelaura even more clunky.
to your point though, it should change. I think some requests about Felblade being a trigger for momentum which I agree with 100%. Demon’s Bite/Demons’ Blade can reset Felblade, so you could in theory “pool” a Felblade to reset the Momentum buff and it doesn’t require you to jump away or run back to your target while your momentum buff is running out.
Lol momentum has been historically clunky. There is every chance they’d leave the highest performing DH build requiring us to glide and hop every six seconds - I would not put it past the devs after this nonsense with sinful brand. I tested it myself with macro and without, it doesn’t cancel automatically but the GCD window is in fact free for a chaos strike. It’s a shockingly bad decision in any case.
Likewise the talk of having the six second duration as the cap would greatly over-complicate the gearing process if it was activating off fel-blade. There would presumably be some kind of haste cap for maximizing uptime of the buff relative to how often you can get fel-blade to proc. A far better outcome than having to activate glide every six seconds but it’s still counter to the design philosophy of recent expansions. Plus, is it really momentum if you’re just sat stationary and trying to angle a 15% maintenance buff off - of all things - a resource generator? I know there’s a lot of people here who would prefer that it function like that, but if that’s what we’re going to reduce it to why not just get rid of the talent altogether and come up with something else? I want to see it renewed and ascendant personally. 
Momentum and base demon form in general both need some redesigning. Choosing between “get x% damage for y seconds” is meaningless when a theorycrafter can just calculate the bigger number.
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Maybe Momentum should be changed to provide a different effect depending on which movement ability is used.
Example:
Fel Rush, reduces the remaining cooldown on any ability by 1 second.
Glide, heals the Demon Hunter for 1% health per second.
Felblade, causes the target to burn for an additional XXXX fire damage over X seconds.
Vengeful Retreat, increases the damage done by the Demon Hunter by 15%.
3 Likes
Im still really put off by the fact they made a core class ability, one that the class has always had in our toolkit as a talent. I’m talking about how Eye Beam was made the first selection in the Havoc Talent tree and without picking that as 1 talent point, you cant spec into anything else.
2 Likes
“Back in my day!”
Things change my dude. There is nothing wrong with folks that like sinful brand. Most people didn’t like it, but there was a subset of players that enjoyed it. I would have liked if they kept it around in some fashion, but they didn’t. Oh well. I’ll just change classes. Doesn’t matter to me one way or another. I just enjoyed it.
Change for the worse. Yes.
For a LOT worse.
And when you think that things are THE WORST it’s always somehow even worse the next patch.
You know… I really wanna flame you for that unironic love for this simplistic playstyle buuutt… I guess I need to shut my trap since there are a lot more casual people like you around than those who seek perfection, complexity and completion in all corners like me.
Okay. You like pressing 2 buttons.
You do you. I won’t touch you.
But you know… there is a reason why you are in a clear minority about your brand love.
Maybe, just maybe if you wanna play dumb dot spec with two buttons - you truly need to change the class and all of us can play it the way it suppose to be.
As swift and deadly demonic super solder and not this… abomination with zero burst even tho it has longest cd in the game spamming bites and cs 24/7.
Would be cool to have a talent to make “Demon Form” more powerful in a way that all fury spending abilities have 20% chance to refund 50% of the fury cost.
That 20% would be added to Chaos Strikes base chance to be 40%. But the rest of the abilities like Blade Dance (Death Sweep), Glaive Tempest, and Chaos Nova would all have a 20% chance to refund.
Think this can either be a standalone talent, or add this to Demonic origins to help make it a more attractive “burst” choice.
Would like to control the cooldown reduction on Chaos Nova… So if Feast of the souls came back or bake it into Cycle of Hatred.
Redesigned to make more attractive…
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Demonic Origins
The cooldown of Metamorphosis is reduced by 2 min, but its duration is reduced by 10 sec and now all fury spending abilities have an additional 20% chance to refund 50% of the fury cost while within Demon Form. -
Awaken the Demon Within [Switch (Choice) Talent with Desperate Instincts]
If you reach 50% health, you automatically gain Metamorphosis for 6 sec. This effect has a 1 min cooldown.
In addition, the duration of Metamorphosis will be refreshed up to a maximum of 6 sec while at or below 20% health. -
Insatiable Hunger
Your Demon’s Bite has a 10% chance to spawn a Lesser Soul Fragment and when you consume any soul, all fury generation abilities are increased by 20% for 5 sec. -
Cycle of Hatred
Chaos Strike also reduces the cooldown of Eye Beam and Chaos Nova by 1.0 sec, and an additional 1.0 sec when it refunds fury.
Anyone on Alpha here?
Desperate Instincts
Can you test to see if you pick Desperate Instincts and NOT pick up Blur… if Blur will still proc when you fall below 35% health?
In my opinion, these are some changes that should happen to the Havoc Tree.
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Remove Eye beam from the tree and revert it back to the core ability that has always been part of our base toolkit.
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In place of that, put the choice to either Actively or Passively generate fury via Demons Bite or Demon Blades (that would be a very fitting location given that is the basis for which we generate our resource to have output).
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Remove Furious Gaze and Looks can kill and return it back to the original Eye Beam where its baked in.
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In place of Furious gaze and Looks Can Kill, give us our Anguish back and have Eye Beam apply Anguish to the target(s). Make it a single point talent (allowing us more options, because right now a lot of base abilities are soaking up talents), it can come in many forms, below are some options.
1.) Have Anguish talent act like winds of winter, where during the 12 sec Furious Gaze buff, x% of critical strikes are stored and explode at the end of 12 secs.
2.) Have Anguish talent act like the Ink Pod trinket from Eternal Palace, where it stores X% of dmg and when the enemy reaches 10% it explodes for all dmg stored (think of it like an execute ability)
3.) Have Anguish talent act like the current Legendary Item “Collective Anguish” but have it set to a 20%-40% chance to proc.
Honestly this is awful. They really should change it back to Felblade + Stacking because that actually feels good, Stacking is how EssB windows work anyhow, and even MoMo enjoyers like myself Want to Zip around in combat, not Gently float to the ground
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