A lot of baseline attacks became spec exclusive in Legion when they switched to spec identity. Shadowlands brought back some attacks as class abilities.
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Except Death Coil was available to all specs for the majority of WoWs existence. It was RP spender for a time, Frost had Lichborne in its tree and there were uses for it. Then âspec identityâ came in.
Frost Strike however was never available to any other spec. Death Strike also requires a talent in this new system and I wonder how much people complaining about this system have actually went through it. I see people talking about if you want to get Mind Freeze it will take up 10 points which isnt true, that Mind Freeze should be replaced with Spirit Drain which is already in the DF talent trees and actually better than Spirit Drain so it looks like people dont know whats actually in it yet want to complain about it.
That doesnt put a lot of trust in the people making a big deal out of it because how they are talking about the system isnt accurate at all and we all have the same information provided to us.
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Unholy spec talent tree does seem like less care/attention went in too it compared to the frost one.
One thing i noticed is that its completely possible to pick Army of the dammned without ever touching Apocalypse and Army of dead, making it a capstone that does nothing.
While part of the idea of the talent tree is to give freedom and that involve freedom to do bad choices, i do think in this case its particularly odd as its not just a âbad pickâ it becomes a pick that does nothing.
Meanwhile, talents like Unholy Command, Unholy Pact, Improvd Scourge Strike/Improved Feastering Strike are all positioned in a way that you need to pick the ability they improve first.
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They need professional help building these trees. Hopefully Bicepspump weighs in on this.
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I hope weâll see an iterative process! Iâll make a video with my thoughts once I get back from vacation 
I also trust Taez to provide valuable feedback as always!
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Youâre the only DK I trust so you tell me, am I overreacting or is Unholy built poorly by Blizzard atm?
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For some reason, I feel hurt reading this. 
Iâm not really extensive as Biceps but still, it hurts a bit.
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Lol, Bicepspump is the Unholy DK, most here are Frostophiles. I wish I could just âhideâ Frost DK posts on this forum and make it Unholy/Blood only.
But at the end of the day, only Biceps can get me to believe I am overreacting. And even then he better have some compelling reasoning (which he would).
Unholy tree is horrendous and seeing people say otherwise makes me think they have never tried the spec before.
But I like you Locust!
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Truth to be told, Iâve not delve deep into Unholy either but I hear Blood is just as bad from some sources more than others.
Just remember that Iâm the most average DK player nowadays that try different game (Right now PoE is my jam). Iâm not as extensive like Biceps or into PvP like Nethy or Chillpills.
At least I'm not Kelliste.
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Which is why you arenât on ignore LOL!
I actually stopped playing DK in like December 2020 and just came back to it a couple weeks ago. There were just too damn many Unholy rerollers at the start of SL.
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Quit talking trash about others.
Just with a quick glance, I feel like the paths you take contradict eachother quite a lot. Would be nice if they were setup to synergise somewhat in different branches. It should obviously not be too âhand-holdyâ but still you want the satisfaction of building a tree that makes sense.
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I donât see how you can play CS anymore with this Unholy treeâŠ
The points to get there are insurmountable later in the tree.
Itâs fine to have a last row talent that âdoes nothingâ because you didnât pick up the abilities it effects, because you can just not take that last row talent. The problem is when bottle neck talents like everfrost which you have to take if your want to progress down that path are forcibly picked even when you donât take RW.
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Iâm a frostophile who stopped liking the direction UH was being taken with the zit popping and mandatory pets (I like disease stacking), but Iâm completely with you on this UH tree looking like dog doodoo. I was actually excited to explore it and find a new playstyle only to be completely let down by the lack of options.
Itâs sad when frost tree is the best of the three and still has some glaring issues. (And donât even get me started on the fact that UH has to go all the way left on the class tree just to get basic rune regen)
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I strongly disagree, i think the traits the Unholy tree are badly distributed and this situation is one of the evidences that points towards that.
You will notice that in other points of the talent tree there is a care to avoid this happening, you canât pick Unholy Command or Unholy Pact before picking Dark Transformation for exemple, another exemple is how Improved Scourge Strike canât be taken without before picking Scourge Strike as they follow the same line/side.
the Frost specialization talent tree is much more logic and well distributed in that aspect, every Trait related to Obliterate are positioned to the left side of the tree and in paths that either make it impossible for you to pick a combination that âdoes nothingâ or offer an alternative (in the case of the Obliteration who offer an alternative Ice Cap).
In this situation i would dare say they should offer a Choice Node in the Army of the Dammed where you can either Pick Army of the Dammed or another new trait similar to how it happens with Obliteration/Ice Cap
This would both solve this particular situation, offer more choice and help remedy the drastic lack of Choice Nodes Unholy Have, improving spec customisability and reducing chances of dead talent combinations.
other option would be to do something like https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794376626632785935/986046567138074674/unknown.png
but this would mean apocalypse and army would be even further down the tree =/
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You dont have to go into Frenzied Monstrosity or Army of the Damned, not to mention who in their right mind would read those 2 talents and say⊠âthat sounds good even though I didnt pick up Dark Transformation, Apocalypse or Army of the Deadâ.
You can also pick up Dark Transformation without having a permanent pet. At some point you have to blame the people who take these talents without picking up what they are used for. You would have to make a conscious decision to pick these talents without having what they work on and thats the players fault, not blizzards fault for allowing it to happen.
You canât pick Dark Transformation without picking Permanent Pet due to how the talent tree is distributed and the pre-requirement to deep in to it.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794376626632785935/986053827155341352/unknown.png
As you can see i have 1 point required to unlock Dark Transformation, the left side of the unlocked tree is complete, and to go towards the right side of the unlocked tree i need to spent a point on Improved Raise Dead.
Now about bad builds, yes, bad builds will happen but i do think 2 points about it.
1 - There is a difference between Bad Builds where you just donât maximize output but still gain something (Even if its not as good, you know, like how you can pick a unoptimal talent row choice currently) and having a capstone who offer you no effect if you donât go a specific path, even tough you are allowed to pick said capstone using a different path.
2 - Even while being aware bad builds may happen, i think some care should exist in how pathing works to make sure that even if a bad choice exists, that bad choice still does something.
because if donât, then we are just switching the Talent Row system due to some flaws the playerbase have with it for something even worse.
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Totally overlooked the point requirement to move on.
You still dont have to take Army of the Damned. If you dont go that path, dont pick that capstone. It tells you entirely what it works with, its on the player at that point. If Army of the Damned was in the place of Death Rot then there would be a point since there you are funneled into 3 talents.
Just like with what Tof was talking about with Everfrost. Its a forced talent if you want to go BoS and there are only 2 talents in that row so you have to take one or the other or both. Having to take Army of the Damned to get to Unholy Assault would be dumb, but where it is now, if anyone takes it without picking up either Army of the Dear and/or Apocalypse thats their fault. 100%. That means the person actively avoided these talents to pick up a talent that does nothing. Its a conscious decision at that point. You would have to be aware that you are screwing up royally and thats on the person that makes that choice.
Bad choices dont have to do anything, its a bad choice. You can go to the store, buy a bow and then buy bullets to use for that bow⊠wouldnt work. It just wouldnt, and thats a choice that you can make. Thats what this choice is. If you are going to avoid these other talents that work with Army of the Damned, thats the persons fault. Why would you choose it at all if you dont have Army of the Dead or Apocalypse? This isnt even worse, its literally telling the player to not be stupid and read what you are picking up.
This thing with Army of the Damned being able to be picked up without picking up what it works with is a non-issue. Just dont be dumb and read your talents.
I just canât understand this line of consideration when people spent the entirety of the Talent Row system complaining about how many rows have bad picks/non choices while being ok with the talent tree being like this.
why even offer the player to go a path like this?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794376626632785935/986061665420316742/unknown.png
why not do something like this then? as clearly going from the left/right to the middle is just stupidity
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/794376626632785935/986062550967943178/unknown.png
In the end The Talent Tree with the acceptance of âits ok to have talents points who do nothingâ is basically a worse Talent Row system done just to make people happy that âyay talent tree is backâ
or even better, offer a connection from the left/right to the middle earlier (that way you could go from the left or right and pick army or apocalypse whatever)
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