Fire mages... what's up

Classes Mage
1

I’ve played Fire Mage since original WoW. Not because it was always the best spec, but because it’s the spec I genuinely enjoy the most. The problem is that in modern WoW, especially now in Midnight, it feels harder and harder to justify playing Fire when the gap between it and Frost keeps becoming so obvious.

And before somebody says “every spec can clear content,” let’s be honest about how the game is actually played now.

WoW is completely meta-driven.

If one spec is doing noticeably better damage while also being easier, safer, and more consistent, then that spec gets invited. That’s just reality. I don’t even blame group leaders for it. If Frost is outperforming Fire in Mythic+, raids, and even PvP utility-wise, why wouldn’t people choose Frost?

That’s what makes this so frustrating as a longtime Fire player.

This also isn’t some new issue that only popped up this expansion. Frost has repeatedly dominated over the years because Blizzard almost always leaves it as the safer and more reliable option.

Wrath of the Lich King? Frost basically owned Mage PvP.

Legion? Fire started strong, got nerfed, and tons of players swapped back because Frost was simply more practical and easier to get results with.

BFA and Shadowlands? Same story in Mythic+. Frost brought reliable sustained damage, insane control, survivability, slows, roots, easier uptime, and less punishment for movement-heavy fights while Fire constantly depended on perfect Combustion windows and coordinated pulls to really shine.

Even when Fire DOES become strong, it usually lasts for five minutes before Blizzard immediately tones it down again because of scaling or burst concerns.

Meanwhile Frost almost never feels bad.

That’s the real issue.

Fire constantly feels like it has to work twice as hard just to compete with a Frost Mage casually putting out better numbers with better control and fewer downsides.

And Arcane honestly isn’t much better. Arcane spends half its life either clunky, overly complicated, or balanced around theoretical top-end gameplay that barely reflects what most players experience in actual keys and raids.

The biggest problem now is how much the community follows logs, tier lists, Raiderio scores, and RTWF meta comps.

People can say “play what you enjoy” all they want, but when:

  • you’re getting declined from keys,
  • passed over for raid spots,
  • or feeling like you’re dragging behind specs that require less effort,

then eventually you start asking yourself what the point is.

I love Fire Mage. I always will.

But right now it genuinely feels like Blizzard has no idea what to do with the spec outside of brief moments where it becomes overpowered and immediately gets nerfed back into the ground.

Nobody is asking for Fire to permanently dominate meters.

People just want parity.

They want to feel like choosing Fire isn’t intentionally making the game harder for yourself compared to Frost.

Because right now, that’s exactly what it feels like.

7 Likes
It's is time for a rework (FIRE)
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Stopped reading right there. Fire has been the most dominant mage spec historically by a landslide.

11 Likes
3

As it should be. Fire melts frost magic. Common sense :roll_eyes:

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Other than this tier Frost mage has almost never been in race to world firsts. Ever

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5

I’m just hoping for a fire rework.

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I read that as “firework” and I was gonna say you gotta wait till July 4th for that. :joy:

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7

I’d celebrate that. (Good) Fire mage changes by Fire Day!.

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Flameo, Hotman!

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If you’re going to reply, at least read the entire post. No one likes a premature evaluator after all…

Yes, Fire has had periods where it was the strongest mage spec. I’m not denying that. Frost players have every right to point to Firelands, MoP, Legion, and other times when Fire was the clear winner.

But that doesn’t really matter to a Fire mage trying to get into a key today.

Nobody is building groups based on what happened five, ten, or fifteen years ago. They’re looking at current logs, current tuning, current rankings, and current community perception.

That’s where the frustration comes from.

Every time a Fire player says they’re unhappy with where the spec is, someone immediately responds with “but Fire dominated in the past.” Okay… and? How does that help the player getting passed over right now because Frost is putting up better numbers with less effort?

Fire has always been a spec that asks more from the player. Most of us are fine with that. Managing cooldowns, planning ahead, dealing with movement, setting up burst windows—that’s part of what makes the spec fun.

The issue is when that extra effort doesn’t come with extra reward.

When a harder spec is producing similar or worse results than the easier alternative, people naturally gravitate toward the easier option. Then group leaders see Frost everywhere, more Frost logs get posted, more Frost players get invited, and the cycle keeps feeding itself.

I’m not asking for Frost to be nerfed. Frost players deserve to have a strong spec too.

I’m not asking for Fire to become mandatory.

What I want is for mage players to actually have a choice.

I want someone to look at Fire, Frost, and Arcane and pick the one they enjoy most, not feel like they’ve already made the wrong decision before they even hit the queue button.

That’s the real problem. Not who was strongest in 2011. Not who was strongest in Legion.

What matters is whether all three mage specs feel like legitimate options today.

9 Likes
10

This line deserves its own reward for creativity.

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11

The reason people say that is because fire mages sound selfish. See, what you’re describing about fire getting passed over has happened to mages that want to play frost and arcane way more than it’s happened to fire players.

In shadowlands I was in a CE guild so they were willing to cut the underperforming specs. One of the officers was only willing to play frost and I was willing to go fire so they replaced him with me.

In a perfect world ALL specs for ALL classes are viable but that just doesn’t happen. Blizzard has shown throughout history that as long as a class has at least one viable spec they are content with that.

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You’re kind of proving the point.

If Blizzard is happy as long as Mage has one viable spec, then Fire players have every right to be frustrated when Frost is the default answer to everything. Telling people to just play Frost isn’t any different than telling Frost players to just play Fire back when Fire was the spec everyone wanted.

Bringing up times when Frost or Arcane got left behind doesn’t really change what’s happening now. All that says is Blizzard has a history of doing it.

I don’t think most Fire players are asking to be the top spec. We just want the gap to be small enough that playing Fire isn’t seen as making the wrong choice before the key even starts.

When the first response to every Fire discussion is “just respec Frost,” that’s usually a sign that things aren’t as balanced as people claim they are.

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13

I honestly prefer Frost. After they made fire a spammy pyroblast spec it kinda just didn’t feel right to me.

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14

It goes in cycles. They’ll buff fire at some point and nerf the other mage specs to do less damage than the tanks. You’ll be back on top before you know it. But maybe let frost enjoy S1 while they can??

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15

buffing the spec isn’t going to fix how boring and the lack of spells outside of combustion is to keep up with everyone else..

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16

I do have to agree with you there. Its very dull in comparison

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17

Just posting this again…

Ignite has always been a problem for fire mages and for a long time now it’s damage was so dependent on how long the trash stayed alive. Many times, packs were cleaved down so fast that ignite didn’t have the time to ramp up. What if in these situations where ignite couldn’t have it’s true big effect, all ignite dots would come back to you and generate a “Cremate” spell that you would send back out doing massive damage, maybe like a big fire frontal wave… amount of damage depends on the number of ignites that returned?? The visual of ignites coming back to you would be awesome.

I do agree… having a fire tornado like bird boss in Windrunner’s spire would be great.

And yes, damage outside of combustion is a joke. I catch myself combusting when I’m out herbing and need to kill random weeds. I hate this idea of always having to be on fire just to kill yellow npcs or random trash. And yes, dungeon damage is so dependent on the tank pulls. The size of the packs, the speed on the pulls, etc… my damage relies so much on the tank. I can run a pug key… tank decides to pull one pack at a time, which means I will be top dps for first pack, but at the bottom of the list for the next couple of pulls, waiting on my one minute combustion timer. On the other hand, I can do higher keys in a discord group where tank will pull 15+ adds or even more, and we all do great. If my dps is crap, I get blamed for having sh’tty skills not for lack of bigger pulls….

The state of blastwave now is also a joke… I barely even see it.

Once again, the right side of talent tree is really not being used… the living bomb graveyard.

We are not asking to be meta… as a pure dps class, we should be able to do similar damage if not more than hybrids and the tank.

And when you see that 90% or more of all mages are frost… there is a problem… I have played fire and only fire since the very beginning, for 22yrs… I will not change…

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18

The thing is, I’m playing Frost right now and I’m enjoying it. This isn’t coming from a die-hard Fire player who’s upset their spec isn’t on top. I’m arguing for closer balance across the class as a whole.

We’ve had a lot of tuning since launch—arguably more than usual. When I look at specs like Frost DK and Arms Warrior, which started near the bottom and have since climbed into top-tier territory, it’s hard not to wonder why Fire and Arcane seem to get overlooked whenever tuning passes come around.

And to be clear, I’m not asking for Fire or Arcane to be the best specs in the game. I don’t care about being #1 on the meters. What I care about is not being so far behind that choosing Fire or Arcane is viewed as intentionally handicapping your group.

That’s the point I’ve been trying to make. Every spec doesn’t need to be equal, but the gap shouldn’t be large enough that one spec is welcomed while another gets declined before the key even starts.

That said, it could always be worse. We could be Devastation Evokers.

4 Likes
19

I’ve been thinking about reworks for awhile and have shared a lot of thoughts. Today I want to share my thoughts on frostfire fire mage.

I think there is potential to change duality. Instead of a chance to launch a GS, it is instead a 30% proc change to upgrade pryoblast into a frostfire “thermal spike”. It could deal more damage. For example, if my current pyros are dealing 70k crits This could deal 100-120k crits. Then it could have a some sort of short dot similar to odyn’s fury that deals and additional 15-30% damage over 4-5 seconds. If there is a problem with combustion, which with current damage I don’t think there should be, just make it benefit from the damage increase less.

Something I’ve noted is that crits just don’t hit hard enough for fire. Anecdotally, the whole “we fire off a ton of pyroblasts”, doesn’t hold water when it comes to raw achievable numbers. Even under combustion the damage if pathetic compared to my frostfire frost mage.

But there is a fix in game right now to that dilemma. The delve rare buff that doubles crit damage just about brings fire in line with my frost damage. IMO, double crit damage and nerf combustion for balance.

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I feel an easier solution would be just to shorten ignite’s duration. Then less of it would fall off when a mob dies. But realistically just letting mastery buff fire damage and removing ignite would do this too.

I’m pretty sure the point of ignite is to make fire less bursty.