If it stands that I’m forced to take Pyroclasm I won’t be playing Fire Mage in 12.1, and likely won’t be maining Mage at all. 
6 Likes
sooo also how does this help with the fun of the spec and keeping up with damage when its still massively heavy RNG outside of combustion fishing for crits to even cast pyroblast/flamestrike… fire is just going to be dead the whole expansion…
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Developers’ notes: Our goal with these changes is to shift the relative value of Fire’s steady-state damage versus Combustion window burst. It is important that time spent outside of Combustion remains meaningful and impactful to your overall performance.
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Pyroblast damage increased by 15%.
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Flamestrike damage increased by 15%.
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Apex Talent: Fired Up (Rank 1) now grants 2% increased Fire damage for 8 seconds (was 4% for 12 seconds).
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Apex Talent: Fired Up (Rank 2) now increases Fire damage by 5%/10% (was 3%/6%).
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Apex Talent: Fired Up (Rank 3) chance to occur during Combustion has been slightly reduced
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Hell yeah, I’d love it if Pyroclasm became Meta. I kind of hate Fire right now and want the pacing changed up.
- 2-Set Bonus: Pyroclasm causes Flamestrike and Pyroblast to always critically strike.
- 4-Set Bonus: Pyroclasm reduces the cast time of Flamestrike and Pyroblast by 20% and its damage bonus is increased by 20%.
Big meaty Pyroblasts you have to stand still is exactly what I loved about Fire Mage, I want to play like Kael’thas hardcasting Greater Pyroblast…
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I don’t mind if Pyroclasm is the meta talent. I’ll just chose the sub optimal build that doesn’t take it like I always have.
However making it a required talent from a tier set for is terrible. I have absolutely hated it since it was a legendary in Legion and have always actively avoided taking and choosing the sub optimal build.
I will literally not touch Fire Mage (my main Mage Spec, on the character I have nearly every rep at exalted with) and I’ll likely not main mage for the first time since Legion in 12.1 if Pyroclasm is required because of the tier set.
2 Likes
Sorry to hear that. Why do you dislike it? For me, the feeling of planting my feet and channeling a huge spell is what I love most about Mage theme.
Because it throws a monkey wrench into the pace of Fire Mage’s rotation for me, it makes fire mage not fun for me to play. I and many others despise it with a passion. I have absolutely hated it since Legion and I do not in any way shape or form want to play with it.
I do not mind, and have not mind, when Pyroclasm is the Meta talent as I simply just take a different build. As I have in the many MANY times it’s been the meta pick in prior expansions.
I cannot take a different build that avoids Pyroclasm when it’s required for the tier set to function. Which means I cannot play Fire Mage in 12.1 if this stands.
6 Likes
Because Pyroclasm procs don’t stack and are wasted during combustion. The state of fire can’t make up its mind. Is it based around combustion or not? If they want to move away from the spec being ultra fast and reliant on combustion then it needs a full rework. It’s been based around combustion for so long, they can’t just tweak it like this and make it anything but a nerf.
It used to be a much slower spec with higher base damage and combustion was a huge burst cooldown. It’s now become the base of a rotation with pathetic base damage. Fire feels sooo weak when not on combustion, and combustion feels regular.
3 Likes
It stacks up to 2 charges.
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I so badly want to play my mage but all these fight you have to move you cannot stay still..
that why I play a warlock..
2 Likes
Except he’s was a boss that can take a hit, can’t be set back while casting, and doesn’t have to interrupt his own cast just to move out of a swirly. The player can’t afford to do any of that. 
4 Likes
I’ll admit this is awkward. The fact that they auto-crit is a help and a hindrance. They should really bite the bullet and make Combustion make every hit contribute to Hot Streak, but no longer guarantee Crits.
Agree 100%. Terrible outside Combustion, overwhelming inside it but just “regular” in the sense that you actually feel like a DPS while you’re busting. I hope they buff the absolute crap out of Pyroclasm even more so that we’re using it outside Combustion more often, and raising our DPS.
I’ve been playing Devourer with Void Ray and Collapsing Star, I’m kind of used to it. It’s worse if they move because Void Ray goes on CD (While Morphed) and Star also goes on a long cooldown if interrutped/moved for any reason.
If they can manage that and still do top DPS, Fire Mages can manage Pyroclasm.
Just bring back the Ice Floes/Shimmer choice and everyone would rejoice. If our defensives are going to suck, at least let us move around
The set bonus seems more contradictory than useful.
Currently, builds don’t choose Pyroclasm as it breaks the flow of the specialization. Going from the fast-paced Hot Streak to a hard cast Pyroblast or Flame Strike doesn’t feel like the same class.
As with most casting classes, there is a huge survivability problem with having to stand in one place to cast a spell, especially in mechanic-heavy encounters or large pulls in M+. The set bonus does not help that at all.
Having to track yet ANOTHER proc in an attempt to force more clutter through the cooldown manager is just foul. Some of us don’t use it. Fire already has a playstyle that requires well-timed Fire Blast casts, adding this *required* talent choice will only make that worse.
Most other sets do not have a bonus that requires choosing talents at the bottom of the tree. This removes options, as it takes away from what are considered core to play. MAYBE if the Pyroclasm talent was higher in the tree, it might not be as terrible, but as is this set bonus is either A) designed to discourage players from choosing Fire or B) designed by someone who doesn’t play it as is.
2 Likes
Pyroclasm is only worth using outside of combustion since you can pump more without hard casting and when I did goof around playing around with it hardly ever saw it proc outside of combustion since 15% is to low of a proc chance. So don’t know if it would be worth picking over burnout. its pretty much skb without the combusion addon to it which is weird since most people hated skb.
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Currently builds don’t choose Pyroclasm because it’s a massive DPS loss and nobody recommends it.
It’s barely longer than a regular Fireball though.
Again, Devourer Demon Hunter manages to be Meta despite having to regularly do this for Void Ray and Collapsing Star, both of which are infinitely more punishing if they’re interrupted/cancelled for any reason compared to Pyroclasm.
2 Likes
So, your first point reinforced my points, while attempting to be condescending.
Your second point was just wrong. Barely longer than fireball? In any encounter, there is a HUGE difference between 1.2 sec and 2.4 sec cast (WITH the 20% reduction). Double is not barely.
As for your third point, never played it so I have no opinion on Devourer. What I do know is that it is much easier to get a 1.2 sec cast off than a 2.4 sec cast off.
Thanks for the input though, discussions like these hopefully give devs insight into the game (since they don’t seem to play it).
What? That wasn’t attempting to be condescending lol. I just pointed out that Pyroclasm isn’t meta because it isn’t meta, you know damn well it would be on every guide if it was the top performer. It isn’t though, so no guide recommends it. It has nothing to do with “breaking the flow” that’s just your preference it seems?
Huh? Pretty sure it’s like a 40% cast time reduction, so factor that in. I think it’s 1.8 seconds for my mage. Why are you crying about a 1.8 second cast time I’m wondering? You know Flame Accelerant is a talent too, right? I feel like you’re not arguing facts here and don’t play the game.
Ok so you’re coming from a place of ignorance (that’s condescending lol)
If you’re interested in being educated: A big chunk of their damage comes from Void Ray, which needs to be fully channeled to upgrade Reap into Eradicate which deals tons of damage and helps them get into Metamorphosis faster. When they’re morphed, Void Ray goes on a full cooldown if interrupted for any reason (still needs to be channeled) and even Collapsing Star goes on a 5 second cooldown if you have to cancel it for any reason.
The point being, they’re far more punishing than Pyroclasm’s 1.8 second cast and Devourers are still top DPS.
Wild thing to say after literally saying you don’t play Devourer and have no opinion LOL. Zero self-awareness.
And I and many others wouldn’t care if it was the Meta we would just take a different talent build to avoid it.
The issue is it’s being forced down our throats with the tier set.
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Yeah and I sympathize with you because that’s your personal preference and you’re not wrong; the tier set is all about Pyroclasm. But the person I was talking to made the stupid point that Pyroclasm isn’t recommended because of flow right now, even though right now (Meaning live) it’s terrible numbers wise.
I mean I pointed out the ways that you’re wrong and you proceeded to plug your ears and say “Well I don’t even play devourer!” and then say other stuff that is factually untrue because you don’t factor in the 40% cast time reduction. You’re allowed to not like Pyroclasm, you’re entitled to your opinion, but don’t make stupid arguments lol.
You’re literally arguing from a point of ignorance, waddle away in shame if you want me to stop pointing out your stupidity.