Rogue and feral doing the work there, killing the DB target but yeah I feel you.
Did see an EU enhance/Destro (iirc) munching people at 2600 over there the other day.
On Drustvar it has fire lower than the other two (not Aug) so idk who’s right.
Also murlok is really sketchy with rep. Idk how Drustvar scrapes api data though so it could be just as bad lol.
the only reasons fire is playable in shuffle is standard mage toolkit + kinda competitive damage in bust, outside of bust you are just running around waiting for sheep DR’s being an annoying mage nothing fire specific.
Well in drustvar, your right on the US braket, but the EU has both lower then fire mage.
Murloc take both EU and US so its one thing, but it also take the 50 best per spec instead of pure rep over 2400 wich is kinda useless when talking about none meta spec that have next to zero representation in the 2.4k+ braket.
I mean, how comparing 3 enh vs 0 fire over 2400 do really have a meaning especialy when you take into account that barely no ones play fires cuz you have the choice of 2 other ranged spec. While if you want to be a melee shaman you are forced to be enh, same for surv hunters.
Its like fury warriors. They aren’t as bad as their ranking might suggest, cuz its easy to switch from a melee spec to another ones.
It can’t be the go to Mage spec in PvP while Combustion has all of its cooldown reduction since that’s the only time the spec has killing power.
There’s no counterplay to current Combustion which is why they’re always so hesitant to buff Fire.
Kinda why fire mage was so stupidly OP in SL.
Kiting + shields and insane burst was hard to counter.
bust instantly killing you if you didn’t use and fire holdiln blast charges if you did use and would swap the go onto somebody else 
Outlaw Rogue and Enhancement Shaman would like a word.
Fire isn’t perfect, and certainly not super strong like Frost, but it’s not the worst spec in PvP by any means.
I’ve deffo started seeing fire mages above 2.1k mmr in 2s rn. Still way more frost/arcane, but it’s more than I expected to see
I’d like to see them change fire to revolve more around living bomb and tie that into combustion. The way the damage us now, it feels too clunky.
Cata fire with bombs popping off and just spreading fire all over was pinnacle mage for me. When they had flamestrike bomb spec, it was very similar to that. I hate that it was gutted so badly.
It’s obvious Blizz isn’t going to change and rework classes right now. That’s why every change is basically only ever numbers tuning.
Maybe next patch, but probably more like next expansion.
I think fire mage still has very solid defensives; same as arcane mage and frost.
I think the bigger problem is it has EXTREMELY limited damage reliant on casting outside of combustion and combustion is weaker than it ever used to be.
That being said, I think enh is worse than fire mage.
I mean outlaw has to be the worst right?
Even played absolutely perfectly outlaw manages to be a nuisance at most. Fire mages might not be as strong as arcane/frost but they can actually apply good pressure when they have their buffs and cds going. And polymorph isn’t usually so quickly DR’d by teammates like stuns for rogues are.
All mages have much better defensives than people will often say. Yeah frost can get the double ice block which is huge and lets you recover from mistakes easier but otherwise most of their defensive kit is the same. The problem I usually see is that 95% of mages don’t use their shimmer/displacement right and they rarely merge it with alter time on cd for the fresh charge of shimmer. And overpowered barriers are insane with how quick they come back up. People love to use mirror images offensively only instead of defensively too. Oh and using greater invis after alter time to drop target and get the damage reduction, you can often get people to swap just from that alone or use it to line something.
Going gravity lapse in sunfury is also huge and can be used both offensively and defensively. I’ve been loving it on my arcane mage, on double melee you can lift both up from 40yd and free cast arcane surge on them, it’s amazing.
nope! prot paladin is even worst with 80% nerf in pvp for their healing, 67% dmg taken increased in pvp and 30% dmg nerf in pvp for Shadowlands overtuning and got forgotten in the abyss and they never removed the pvp modifiers that are outdated.
I didn’t realize we were counting memes.
I’m probably getting annoying to some people on this forum, but yeah I think Outlaw is the worst.
Even when you’re able to get good rolls, don’t get peeled, get lucky on your Ambush procs during Crackshot windows and have Adrenaline Rush Up, you’re not doing superb damage.
A lot of Fire Mage’s damage is locked up in Combustion, but with the damage buffs to rotational abilities, Combustion is at least a threatening CD now, and it’s a much shorter CD than Adrenaline Rush.
I mean Outlaw still has some good things going for it, but it’s stuff in the typical Rogue kit. Why play Outlaw when Sub has a lot of the same control, a more reliable mobility option (because grappling hook still fails to actually move you a lot of the time) and actually can capitalize on CC chains to secure a kill with their CDs?
I think Outlaw has so few redeeming qualities in PvP and is in dire need of tuning. Which is a shame too because it’s really a fun spec. It feels great to hear your ambush duplicate or see your RtB yield some great matches, but then you look at the opponents health bar as you’re furiously clicking away and see that you’re doing next to nothing.
I don’t know whether to feel happy or sad when I see people finally acknowledging this… :c
I’ve acknowledged and been a proponent for buffing Outlaw for a long time. People always like to point to when they were functionally immortal and a huge nuisance, but like, that shouldn’t stop them the team from fixing them now.
I think Outlaw is super fun, and while the switch from Combat to the Pirate theme was divisive, I really liked it and wish we had more deeply thematic specs. I want to play my Outlaw Rogue more than anything, but it’s so disappointing to lineup a Killing Spree with Ghostly Strike / RtB Buffs and dump 7 combo points into it for it to do less damage than my Arms Warrior’s random MS crits.
I don’t think it would be everyone’s cup of tea, but to be totally honest I think Outlaw would benefit greatly from a Fire Mage like round of buffs, where their rotational abilities got significant increases. Sinister Strike, Ambush, Between the Eyes, and Dispatch all need tuning. KS does too. A lot of talents in the tree need to be consolidated or moved too; greenskins wickers shouldn’t be a bottom row talent. Dispatch’s stacking damage buff shouldn’t be a talent; it should just be how dispatch works normally since it’s such an unthreatening use of Combo Points to begin with.
But anyway, I’ll stepdown from my soapbox and stop armchair devving the game. I don’t know what the answer is. I just know I want the spec I have the most fun with to feel good to play. I’m honestly only on my mage right now because Fire is my second favorite spec, and while it’s nowhere near as good as frost or arcane, it feels good again. I want that for Outlaw. I don’t need it to be oppressive; I need it to be OK. And right now, compared to the competition, it’s anything but.
Ain’t no way.
I’ve said this somewhere before but AR was designed to have 90% uptime in PvE. The fact that you’re lucky to see around 40% even in a match where you can just spend most of it cleaving a couple of zug zug melee feels like an after thought. Especially after the CDR nerf. AR needs to either provide an actual burst window in PvP, or it needs to at least not feel completely useless without it.
Haters (Kennie) hate to see a hot baddie (me) speaking the truth (that Outlaw is the worst spec in the game, or at least in the bottom 3)