FF14 is NOT the better "RPG" imho

[Bwomsambi-ragnaros]

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

Tell me those mount prices again in their store?

Like the giant mechanical whale that 8 people can mount on at the same time?
https://store.finalfantasyxiv.com/ffxivstore/en-us/product/779
If Blizzard store mounts were that good I would see no issue
Plus, the game itself provides you with even cooler mounts, unlike with WoW, where the best is in the store.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

or how the mounts are the only ones with that many seats

You can get some ingame mounts with up to 4 seats, not many, but to be fair, it would be bland if store mounts were just a model with no other value. In my opinion they should not exist but in FF14 many of them are worth it… imagine if the boat store mount from wow could travel over the water, it would be worth it.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

how every holiday item goes on the store and becomes unobtainable after that one time except through the store?

Many of them will return from what I heard, and even some from time exclusive events like the FF15 car.
So it might be a sign of them moving in the right direction
https://www.millenium.gg/news/23866.html

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

You’re holding FF14 on a high pedestal, using arguments against WoW and then conveniently not holding FF to the same standards when they very much do the same thing.

Difference? FF14 does corrects its mistakes over time
They launched 1.0 in a horrible state, did they leave it like that while taking money from the people? (like Blizz did with WoD and Shadowlands now) No, they stopped the sub price and fixed the game
They have shown to have integrity and care for their customers, can’t say the same for Blizz…

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

Well i’m glad you can admit it’s pretty much a singleplayer rpg then

Yes, is a proper RPG with a multiplayer designed for a massive audience. Is not an open world game like Far Cry. Furthermore, WoW does not has a good open world either, it just look pretty and you can die/interact with cliffs, that’s it.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

And the raiding environment in FF14 is poor, it’s 4 boss rooms you teleport into and that’s it. The only other raid is LFR style catch-up stuff.

The fights are well designed, the music/content is great and having a LFG raid that has an actual use is not a downside, lol.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

Why are you even defending their lacking open world

Compared to what? For an RPG is what I expected
Compared to WoW… in practice is not better, the WoW open world. It only exist for you to travel and do WQ, nothing else, is mostly serving as a delay between area A and destination B, that happens to look pretty but you end up doing the same stuff as in FF14. Spacing more the areas and mob locations would not make the open world better.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

it’s not very RPG

Wat :

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

i’m glad you can admit it’s pretty much a singleplayer rpg then

Is an RPG or not?

It is much more of an RPG than WoW is now (it has all the characteristics of a classic FF game), heck, I would even claim that Monster Hunter World is more of an RPG than Shadowlands…

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

and certainly not massive

24 and 56 man raids is what makes it massive, and the cities full of people. The size of the open world is meaningless if it has no purpose like in WoW. The open world in FF14 while smaller, has as much content and WoW’s while being more dynamic instead of static.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

Classic has more of a community sense than FF14 ever wil

Yes, you in Classic have an entire channel full of people dedicated to teach the newbies how to progress and flourish in the game and tons of patience towards people playing any class and regardless of how good they are. Please notice the sarcasm.
I have yet to see any sign of toxicity in FF14
The community regardless of its size and stability, it is much more united and healthy.

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

because of the teleporting into everything

Surely WoW Classic does not has that
mages and warlocks do not exist

It is not sad how WoW has to rely in a version from almost 2 decades ago because its current form is worthless?
“Classic does this” “Classic does that”
What about its current form?
Lets be fair, FF14 does much better all of this compared to modern wow, the old version over time will get to the point were you can’t defend it
Now you have store content in BC, later LFD will arrive and in Wrath Classic you will also have “TP to everything”

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

fact that people burn out of content too

Not really, people do all the content and leave until the next content patch, they actually can finish if they want, unlike limitless grinding in WoW…
And if they want, because there a lot of unlockables and mogs out there.
But the good thing is that, low to no pressure about getting stuff, even missing content exclusive mounts is not bad like in WoW because there is no meta achievement for collecting mounts.
In WoW is horrible not being able to have Warchief motorcycle in horde because alli has their version so if you want 400 collected meta achievement… and you main horde… hahahaha
1 extra mount is a PITA

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

You defend every little point like it’s a boon but it’s really not, it makes FF14 feel hollow and barebones.

Sorry for lately nor enjoying the “meaningful” journey towards the WQ farm

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

such as the gearing which is far too bland and has only gotten further simplified over time.

Good
Crafted, artifact and other kinds of gear are all viable
In WoW the simplified route is also good, like PvP vendor…
Having a complex system that never rewards you is… not rewarding.
In FF you can finish
In WoW you see the hamster wheel desperately trying to keep you paying the sub while they feed you empty promises of fulfillment.
Heck, not even with mythic/gladiator gear you will be able to solo Mythic Legion raids.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

@Dapler-incendius

Better to be able to nicely explain something to a player without having to just kick them.

I have done this very thing probably thousands of times. I’m guessing that most people don’t know how to come across as the bolded part.

But yeah, again, slippery slope. And a workaround exists. It does annoy me, but I’ll pay that price. Also, with the base UI, you can also glance at the threat meter to see how you compare to others in your group. Another workaround, but a solid baseline.

[Dapler-incendius]

Maybe, but it’s going to be safer to kick the player. If it’s a slippery slope, do you find yourself more toxic by using the parser overlay?

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

I have never been in a group in FFXIV that has kicked a player for a performance related issue. Not one. Through Savage, through Extremes, through PUGs of every sort. I’ve only seen people booted for inactivity or, ironically, being outright toxic.

And I’m starting to see why people are thinking they’re getting banned for no reason. Abusing the kick feature is grounds for punishment. If you’re just kicking that underperformer instead of actually instructing and advising them… you should be tossed in that jail.

[Baridorielor-malfurion (Baridorielor)]

@Keldar-sargeras

Again, I’m not saying that there’s zero corporate influence. It’s there. And it’s particularly egregious with the boosts and story skip. But again… it doesn’t affect me in the slightest.

@Keldar-sargeras

And most content you’ll find in the shop, aside from that, is made available in-game before it hits the shop.

Again, i like the idea of preserving the limited time rewards, just wish it’s not on the cash shop.

@Keldar-sargeras

There’s a huge difference between players being upset that a cool cosmetic is on the shop for $15 and actively designing the rest of your game to wring an additional $15 monthly fee out of everyone.

Both are obviously bad here. Though you’re trying to put cosmetics as if it’s nothing to worry about or even not as bad, just because it’s “optional” and therefore, it’s nothing to be concerned about. I mean obviously this sort of logic can be used for playing the game as well, “playing the game and being timegated to be wringed out of money they can is optional”. I understand you’re talking about your experience with them and that’s fine, but how you being fine with it, means it’s shouldn’t be up for concern or criticism for any of us?

Especially when you take into consideration that Blizzard and Cosmetics here shouldn’t have to go each other. Lest we forget about every 6 month sub mounts and the sprite darter costume. And i don’t think i need to touch on Overwatch for it’s egregious scheme for cosmetics and why this whole “It’s just cosmetic” non-argument started in the first place, which landed us where we are in the first place.

I’m sorry, but Cosmetics do matter as much as regular gameplay and not to me, but to anybody who wants them for whatever reason it may be.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

Absolutely, I do. Many a time in WoW LFR, I’ve simply looked to the bottom 5 after a wipe and rallied the group to boot them. Infinitely easier than teaching them the fight, and completely acceptable behaviour by the standards internal to WoW.

And I don’t like that I become that person in WoW.

But yeah, that has a lot to do with design philosophy and isn’t entirely specific to the DPS meters.

[Dapler-incendius]

That sure wasn’t my experience in end game. People get kicked in pugs…it doesn’t matter what game you’re playing. The healer that doesn’t dps or the tank that pulls too slowly do get kicked. I don’t understand that because it takes forever to replace those roles, but what you’re describing isn’t accurate.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

I’m sorry, but Cosmetics do matter as much as regular gameplay and not to me, but to anybody who wants them for whatever reason it may be.

We’ve simply drawn different lines.

To be completely frank, my time is more valuable to me than my money. If I want something on that shop, I just buy it. I’m that guy. I’m the whale that has literally bought whales for myself and friends.

I don’t mind forking over the cash for cosmetic stuff I want. What I absolutely cannot stand for is the developers dictating to me what I do with my time in-game, or systems beyond the innate design of the content affecting how much time I spend with it.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

Again, I’ve never seen it. I’ve seen people get suggestions to play more effectively, and based on their reaction, get the boot. But someone receiving instruction and actively attempting to do right by their group? I haven’t seen it. Mostly because they’re ultimately successful.

[Dapler-incendius]

The only way for that to be true is if the MMO playerbase is somehow different in just that one game. Ease up on the hard sell lol. People get kicked sometimes. Sometimes the players are nasty. It’s a video game on the internet. There’s no escape from that. What FF14 does right is that it will eventually permanently ban the people that get too nasty in chat.

[Bwomsambi-ragnaros]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

I don’t know, EA seems to be oddly doing better, as much i hate to admit it. I heard that SWTOR is doing alright and they managed to make 2 star wars games that didn’t suck, plus they have been putting their games on Steam instead of being exclusive to origin, and as for The Sims 4… it gotten a bit better.

Activison, i’l give you that.

How the great one has fallen… even EA now is doing better xD

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Well given this community, i would imagine it would only be seen as “Oh they are trying to get good PTR by trying to communicate with us and try to manipulate and twist our words into something else we don’t want!!”.

But Ion did that
He lied to us about a lot of stuff in Shadowland, blatantly …
I forgot to mention that they should be honest and put their words according to their actions.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Not that the previous point is only exclusive with Blizzard mind you, i mean this is the “Triple AAA” video game industry, they will always take something good and somehow make it 60 times worse somehow. Like Tetris.

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Kind of unfair to compare FF14 to No Man Sky, don’t you think?

Okay, they did a 1% of what NMS did xD

@Baridorielor-malfurion

Lets not forget about this diddy here.

Okay, I will not defend a Square Enix store again… WTF WAS THAT??? NOT EVEN EA XD

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

I’ve definitely seen people get flustered and leave. And I’ll accept that when you get a group consisting of all those people, plus one underperformer, you might get a boot. But I’m being completely genuine when I say I’ve never personally witnessed it. And that’s probably because I’m the guy walking the newbie through the content until we’re collectively successful.

[Dorkadin-deviate-delight]

@Baridorielor-malfurion

And also, what about the story skip boost on FF14, or WoW’s story? What does that say about the story/leveling experience when you can just skip it with real money even if it’s ‘optional’?

That’s another fairly good point to note against FFXIV, it has the issue of expecting a player to go through some 200 hours+ of story first before reaching where everyone else is playing. With the ARR story being the weakest by far (that’s the base game and where you’ll be spending most of your time) it really hampers new player enjoyment. Especially with how over time in the patches they made new abilities come slow and removed a bunch of abilities in favor of new ones that you get later, a lot of the core gameplay of a class you won’t get until very very late level. I found this particularly an issue with the DRK whose entire rotation changes rather a lot based on later abilities.

And then there’s the other minor issue of where if you do old dungeons you get synced down and lose those abilities again, making it so you lose 80% or more of your class buttons and go back to using the very basic buttons. This could be an issue if you got synced down even a few levels in Stormblood I remember because a very core ability to the DRK was purely a max level one, so any dungeon that wasn’t max level meant you lost it and a lot of mitigation to go with it.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

@Dorkadin-deviate-delight

That’s another fairly good point to note against FFXIV, it has the issue of expecting a player to go through some 200 hours+ of story first before reaching where everyone else is playing. With the ARR story being the weakest by far (that’s the base game and where you’ll be spending most of your time) it really hampers new player enjoyment. Especially with how over time in the patches they made new abilities come slow and removed a bunch of abilities in favor of new ones that you get later, a lot of the core gameplay of a class you won’t get until very very late level. I found this particularly an issue with the DRK whose entire rotation changes rather a lot based on later abilities.

That is absolutely an issue, but not one that has a good solution. God knows a story skip isn’t a good solution, either, since much of your appreciation for the later story hinges on the drawn-out world-building of the latter.

And not having your class come together until level 50, at the earliest? Unforgivable.

I don’t blame anyone who can’t justify investing the time and patience in the game to get to the “good stuff.” There is most certainly “good stuff,” but it isn’t easily accessible, and the incomplete sets are completely unrepresentative of what combat is like at the endgame. Again, unforgivable and completely legitimate critiques.

The solution to the low-level class design is obvious… but I would love to hear ideas about how they could address that ARR slog.

[Dapler-incendius]

I’ve played a lot of FF14 and I think the most common answer to any boss mechanic is…watch the video. There are people out there that will explain the stuff and that’s great of them, but let’s not pretend like that’s the norm. People on the internet aren’t known for their manners lol.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

Since I’m the guy that does the explaining, I will freely admit that my experience is skewed.

[Dapler-incendius]

But you must have seen half the raid tell that player to watch a video in the time it takes you to type the strat out. We’re talking about pugs here lol.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

The groups I’m in tend to skew almost entirely new through roulette or entirely veterans through the party finder. I’ve seen in pop up every now and again, but usually for the roulettes, a quick explanation is effective enough, and the organized groups exist with the understanding that you know what you’re doing.

But I have seen the suggestion pop up if something doesn’t click for someone.

[Dapler-incendius]

The game has really changed since Stormblood I guess. Maybe all those people quit. I guess players don’t get made fun of for playing dragoon anymore either.

[Keldar-sargeras (Keldar)]

As a Dragoon main… I can confirm that we do.

Even the developers join in:

[FFXIV] Titan (extreme) 16-bit