Just did some quick maths. At 8 targets, swipe uncapped and giving 3 combo points on Crit as shred does during berserk this is the damage increase:
Shred for me would hit for 1858.56 on one target. Swipe would hit for 7,075 on 8 targets.
Assuming Global’s are 1.5 for feral you get 10 Global’s during berserk. 5 of those would be swipes which means that you’d do a total damage of 35,376. 5 shreds would be 9,292.
This means your gamebreaking uncapped shreds would do an extra 26,038 damage over 15 seconds, or an extra 1.7k DPS during this window. Since berserk is a 3 min CD, that’s 180 seconds. Over the total dungeon, this becomes a 180 DPS increase… Gamebreaking
You shouldn’t think like that. For feral you have to take into account the energy difference. If you’re going purely by damage per button press, bite is better until 9 targets, but we also have energy, so you have to calculate damage per energy spent. If you take that into account, PW is better at 4 targets. You should always PW spam in aoe over bite, unless you have a priority target
I am lol that 25-30-35k Bite crit makes up for multiple PW uses.
If PW Crit on all mobs when it crits, it would be a different story entirely. But Crit rolls against each mob individually. So I’m a group of 8 you could 0 crits or 3 crits, or 4. But even so, that 1 crit from FB trumps a couple applications of PW
Due to high Crit, mastery, and SbT, and how Crit works in an AoE setting, I get higher numbers from weaving in a few a Bites. Unless it’s something like 10+ mobs as I mentioned.
Without modifiers and what not, then yes, 4+ mobs would be PW > FB
Law of big numbers my dude. If you have 40% Crit then your bite will Crit 40% of the time. As each of your PW hits will Crit 40% of the time.
You’re doing a one to one comparison, not thinking over the course of the entire dungeon.
No, I took the whole thing into effect. A single FB Crit = 2.5 PW crits. And that’s just DPE of finishers, not counting the time and energy it would take to build 5 CPs for that second PW, or third if we wanted to go that far.
There’s a breakpoint where say in 50 finishers, 4 mob packs, and 40% Crit, that you’ll have X amount of Bites for every Y amount of PWs. What it is, I’m not sure.
Point being, weaving in Bites can and will increase DPS
Here’s the spreadsheet that shows you’re wrong, done by people who know a lot more about this than either of us
Yeah that’s all just base numbers and numbers without modifiers in a vacuum, which I’ve already to at what point PW > FB. But none of that is actually applied.
Given a scenario (easy numbers for simplicity’s sake): 4 mobs, 40% Crit, 5 finishers
Your 3 highest DPS outcomes will be:
- 2 FB crits, 3 normal PW
- 1 FB crit, 1 PW crit, 3 normal PW
- 2 PW crits, 3 normal PW
Now I don’t know what the probability is to land either of the first two options, but the numbers don’t lie. Weaving FB into this scenario increase your DPS (given that it crits).
And crit is a major component for Ferals. It has to be taken into consideration. Leaving crit out would be the same as taking Combustion out of the equation when considering potential output ability of Fire Mages
Yeah, I’d rather them implement cleave to Ferocious Bite or something - where your FB hits all targets with a bleed effect on them up to 5 targets for a percentage of damage (or something along those lines).
Generally anything to help with AoE / cleave direct damage (not bleeds) I’m all for (love bleeds but there are not currently enough interactions with bleeds to excel under 5 or so targets).
Also think that berserk should be moved to a 2 min CD, or reworked (again) it simply isn’t strong enough on it’s own to justify being a 3 min CD.
You should be. In true AOE scenarios (so more than 4 targets for keeping Rake up) your general priority should be to keep BT up through Rake/Swipe/Thrash, Swipe for CP, and burn PWs when you hit at least 3CP. Between packs you want to pocket as many CP as you can and open with – ideally – a 5CP + BT PW into your usual Swipe/Thrash/Rake.
This is true if you use Circle as your legendary. I don’t know about using Apex, I’d guess the breakpoint is comparatively higher at like 5-7 targets.
I’d really like them to revisit both Berserk and Thrash.
Maybe putting Thrash into a short (30-45sec) burst AOE/short duration DOT or something. I don’t know about Berserk, it hasn’t been good since the WoD days and probably just needs to be scrapped and something else done entirely.
Does this strictly apply to using Circle? And why 3? With only 3 CPs, even with 50% mastery affecting PW, and Swipe being capped at 5 targets, in a group of 6, Swipe would do more damage than a 3 point PW?
It’s because with Circle the majority of your damage is going to come from buffed Rip. 3CP is enough duration to hit 3 again before it falls off with Circle, and is reliable to hit vs. 2 crits in a row (4CP).
The initial hit is also obviously uncapped which gets some value too as you scale pack sizes up further and further. It’s closer at 5 but once you get to 7-8-… it leaps far ahead.
So you’re telling me you’re unable to hit a 5 point buffed PW and are unable to refresh that PW with another 5 point PW in 9 seconds?
while maintaining BT probably not, at least not 100% whereas with 3CP you’ll have 100% Rip uptime with no issue.
There’s also probably an optimization of damage per CP there as well. I’m not too into the math side of it and don’t consider M+ my endgame, you can ask one of the big M+ druids on Discord if you want (Maystine, Fore, Chips, Epi)
Well with BT giving you two counters, and the second PW only requiring 3 Swipes, that second PW will fall well within the pandemic window, easily pushing your Rip counter to 15-16 seconds which is more than plenty of time to proc BT, accumulate 5 CPs and repeat from the beginning.
So if you start with a 5 cp PW, you can maintain 100% uptime on Rip with 5cp PW. So why would you ever short yourself damage and blow it at 3?