Something unique doesn’t mean it has to be a silly raid buff.
Warlock gates are unique. bm hunters being able to do full ranged rotation on the move is unique. Countless other examples.
There are much better ways to design things than giving everyone a 5% raid buff.
Since Vanilla they took from us mark of the wild, thorns and leader of the pack to make them pvp talents, also they separated bear from cat into different talent specifications, ferocious bite every exp does less dmg and also we don’t have “ravage” anymore or ANY ability to do several damage in stealth mode (They did the same with rogue ambush) , finally our best AoE chance is a DoT based ability and the other choice it takes swipe from us to make it an ability with 3 charges and 8 secs of cooldown. Also we don’t have raid utility in feral spec.
I really don’t know where this gonna end.
They should take a look to Lich King exp Druid and make something about it.
I really play druid since i enjoy A LOT my class… but it pains me to see what it has become.
Still exists.
Its been baked into shred.
SL has placed more focus on this with the berserk changes.
(used to be exclusive to the incarn talent, now baseline for all ferals)
Rake also has a stealth modifiers, has for some time now. This isnt anything new.
Not sure what youre going on about.
Yeah, i noticed that long ago they tried to change pounce and ravage, and give that utility to rake and shred abilities, and i don’t remember exactly how were the numbers back then (It’s been years 
).
The last version of it i remember (WoD i think) was something like:
“950% damage plus X, reducing the target’s movement speed by 50% and with 50% increased chance to critically strike targets with over 80% health”
I really like the rake improvement, but still i think ravage did a lot more damage than the actual shred (As i remember, maybe I’m wrong).
But for me that’s not the most important issue right now.
As i see it, the biggest problem is that now feral druid is like someone said in another post, a “discount rogue”.
We were able to use innervate, tranquility, and hold in bear form as needed. It was about being bear and cat at the same time and talents were about an hybrid tank/dps spec, that’s what made the feral druid unique since Vanilla.
But someone had the idea of separate them into two different specs and it would be ok if cat form were something more… unique.
Actual affinities are cool, but i think they need rework and maybe that’s the solution to the problem as it provides more combinations and possibilities.
They turned almost EVERY buff into pvp talents, even leader of the pack, and luckily on shadowlands we have nourish back as a talent on resto (it should be baseline) because it was also pvp on BFA.
I believe Mark of the Wild should come back somehow (maybe with resto affinity), or leader of the pack, could be faerie fire as well, and maybe an improvement to primal wrath or brutal slash for AoE dps.
I’m not usually ranting about this, but lately I’m seeing a lot of druids complaining and i wanted to share my views about it and throwing some ideas.
Personally i only had trouble with being accepted into Mythic Keystones, but i think on this exp that’s not gonna be a problem since they changed the gearing system.
I’m still loyal to my class and enjoying it a LOT despite everything i said.
I see this line a lot, and while it’s true to an extent, I think people just jump on that bandwagon.
Granted, the playstyles are somewhat similar. And the discount part comes from that, but with us doing less damage. But I think pure DPS classes should do more than hybrids.
And speaking of hybrids, are we really a discount rogue when that rogue isn’t able to shift into bear mode and tank and save a wipe, or throw out some good off heals, or even be able to sit back out of range and attack from a distance. They’re not gonna be able to battle Rez you either.
So sure, we’re discounted in damage, but I believe that’s justifiable.
Our AoE is fine actually.
Can I ask at what levels you were having troubles? Because I skipped half of season 3 and all of season 4 and came back in the pre-patch and was able to PuG my way up 20 keys.
And genuine curiosity here: but what change did they make to the gearing, and what exactly is that going to do to alleviate the issue about getting group invites?
When you untangle his spin that’s almost exactly what it reads like.
I’ve never seen this happen, when things hit the fan and we’re at the point in which a Feral is shifting into Bear Form believing they’re going to save the day–it’s a wipe.
To speak nothing of the other scenarios you mention. Pulling this completely out of my behind, I’d be confident standing behind the number of encounters saved by a Druid performing an off-spec role to be less than ~0.5%
The real issue though is that Boomkin get every buff a feral can bring right? Boomkin need to have at least Stampeding Roar removed. Also, Feral has fallen down from what it used to be, when was the last time someone use mangle in cat form? Cata or MoP? Mangle use to put a debuff on the target, as it should again IMO.
I think a Bleed Debuff would be pretty sweet personally.
Ya, I have to agree here, keeping a spec sub par for a chance that a feral pulls off a wipe save is ridiculous. I would be astounded if that save % was even 1/2 of a percent. In all the years I have seen a save like that almost all of them were by Paladins, maybe 1 in 16 years was a druid, and that druid was resto. BTW, Boomkin could do the same right?
I mean what would you rather have for your saving the wipe class, a Feral Druid or a Ret Paladin?
That’s super easy, Ret Paladin with super burst, wings, bubble, and lay on hands easily crushes a Feral with Bear form.
I didn’t say it’s part of your rotation to be shifting in and out of forms. But it’s there and they’re helpful.
I’m not saying “oh hey I swapped to Bear form and ranked a raid boss for the last 30%”. But I’ve had tanks go down in trash pulls where I’ve swapped over and saved anyone else from going splat.
Kings Rest on higher keys, especially on Tyrannical weeks, on the council boss, it was helpful to yo-yo that guy who’d knock your tank around and give him a debuff. Granted this can be done with anyone that has a taunt
The amount of off healing we can do through the midst of battle is always a plus too. It’s nice being able to throw out a 10-15% heal every few seconds.
The point being, our different forms/affinities give us the ability to do things that a Rogue could not
I agree completely. I don’t think the other two specs should have gotten Stampeding Roar
[quote=“Treefriend-haomarush, post:47, topic:726962, full:true”]
Cata maybe? Wasn’t MoP when they split Druids into Guardian and Feral?
And there’s been talk about wanting to give Feral a “unique” buff to increase its Raid desirability. And I’d be all for the Armor Pen idea honestly.
You’re missing the point completely here. It’s not about “what class are we going to bring that could save us from potentially wiping”.
It’s what can a Feral do that the Rogue cannot. And that’s a great burst window for Ret, sure. But that’s not tanking. That’s trying to kill something before jt kills you. And the second you pop bubble, you have 3 seconds before your healer goes splat. And you’d need those cool downs available. Bear form is can be maintained indefinitely if needed.
And yes a Boomkin could do the same thing. But that’s comparing Druid to Druid. Not discount Rogue to Rogue 
I was thinking about armor pen too it’s and oldie but goodie, but another Idea I thought was a 8% movement speed (non-mounted) aura, maybe 10 yards or enough to cover the melee or anyone standing in that range.
I was thinking though, what if Predatory Swiftness turned your regrowth into a smart cast that automatically casted regrowth on yourself (if wounded) or a group or raid member? This would be something I would think that would make the difference.
That’s a no from me. I’d really hate to waste a Regrowth on myself when I’m at 95% health and there’s someone floating around 40% who could use it instead.
I like being able to pick and choose who really needs the heal
But what your missing is why should the very very rare chance that a feral might possibly save a raid be a good reason to keep the specs dps lower? It happens far to rarely and there are better specs suited for this. I mean you might see this in an LFR when a tank dies and a over geared Feral jumps into bear form and finishes the raid or a 5 man, but those things really don’t matter, and it’s not something you’re going to see in a raid except once every few years.
If you look at Nubkeks video on how a Raid Leader puts together a raid, off off tanks are not even considered. Who brings a spec because they can off off tank? That’s just a terrible straw man IMO.
Your also wasting time casting it though when you could have been dpsing. When I look at some of the best logs for Feral they are doing about 3% of the raids healing. Locks, Spriest, UH DK, and even Fire Mages beat out Ferals healing. So Feral healing is not something that’s going to stand out as a reason to bring feral.
Why does it only have to apply to mythic raiding? Why not all aspects of the game?
And I beg to differ, 5 mans are a big part of the game and matter a lot. And the affinities play a big role in PvP as well
But the whole focus is what can we do vs what can a rogue do. Not what can we do compared to the rest of the game. That’s a completely different discussion.
As a “discount Rogue” we can do what a rogue can, plus we have the option to be a pinch Tank, we have great off heals, we can attack from ranged if forced out of melee due to mechanics, we can battle rez, we can dispel.
We can do what a rogue can do, to a lesser extent, because we can also do more than they can. Should our DPS be lower, compared to A ROGUE…yes I do believe it should be. Should be as low as it is in relation to the rest of the game as a whole, no.
I can agree with that. I don’t think we need to match a Rogues dps, but I also think Rogues get to much utility though for the dps they do. The reason Rogues are so highly sought after is the utility they bring on top of their dps.
Not trying to be rude, but do you okay Feral? Predatory Swiftness procs are instant cast. We lose 1 GCD worth of time, and normally that time is spent pooling energy anyway. No cast time, no down time.
And being able to throw out a heal for 10% on someone at 40% health is better than the game automatically choosing to top you off because you’re at 98% instead of 100%
Ferals off healing has never been in the runnings as a competitor for a raid spot? Why do we keep coming back to this? Lol
Because you brought it up as one of the reasons to bring a feral to a raid. You also mentioned as a reason for why feral dps should be lower.
I never said anything about raids. You did. I’ve strictly been talking about being a “discount” rogue. And why I’m okay with our damage being lower than theirs.
The point of this thread was feral in raids. Discount rogue was applied to being taken to raids. So figured your comments about healing applied to the subject of the thread. IDK, I think it strange that comparing who is taken to a raid and being called a discount rogue, but then comparing ferals ability to heal to rogues, yet that somehow does not apply to who is brought to the raid? I guess we see things very differently there.