My quoted post is literally presenting a middleground. Im saying you DONT need to be a fury warrior aka resourceless and spamming things on the GDC to fix the energy issue.
I don’t think Predator is the answer to this either as its a talent for a very specific combat scenario with Adds and doesnt help with say, council or cleave fights where things arent dying. A passive mechanism to scale the flow of energy based off targets would be more ideal. Maybe my mind would be swayed bit on this if they got rid of GCD makin it less clunky and added a minor single target buff on that talent or somethign to help wth cleave targets that dont die quickly.
Hell, if you have played Ench Shaman in BFA its living proof that being a “resource” class that ignores the resource beause its always full and not being spent doesn’t feel good lol either lol.
I play feral since 2.3 and I hate BT and snapshotting. Snapshotting was fair when it was a thing ALL classes had back then. Now it’s only us. And you like it. Figures.
I dislike Blood Talons but I can live with it. But snapshotting is ridiculous.
But whatever, you guys have already destroyed the spec with whining countless times. You’re like those old men who dislike changes and can’t fathom things you’re used to being changed.
And look, you won (partially as BT is being changed heh), the extensive list of planned feral changes for shadowlands:
Feral
Fierce felines will see their Bloodtalons Talent reimagined, tapping into their primal power. When Feral Druids use Shred, Rake, and Ferocious Bite in quick succession, the damage of their next Rip will increase dramatically.
And my quoted post was asking you define what that middle ground looks like since just saying “not Warrior” isn’t a helpful point of comparison due to how extreme it is. We’re saying the same thing.
I think this is an interesting viewpoint since right now, cleave fights are actually where Feral shines brightest right now. You can put a Rip on 3 targets (or 2 if you’re lower ilvl and don’t have the Haste, but 3 is the cap for current tier gear) and on each CP cycle you use Bite to refresh Rip on the lowest one and reapply their Rake with the same BT. The timer actually lines up nearly perfectly that you can do this for 3 targets with perfectly snapshotted bleeds and perfect bleed uptime on all targets. You generally only start using Primal Fury on 4+ targets. It gets a little frantic when it’s two council bosses that need to be kept apart and travel time starts factoring in but I don’t think anyone except Affliction Warlocks are happy in that scenario.
We already have an energy scaling mechanism in cleave though, it’s called Swipe. Swipe on multiple targets will almost always crit so the average energy you spend per CP cycle is lower and you move through them faster. This means more finishers which in turn means more energy from SotF.
Could you help me understand the difference here? BT is a snapshotting talent. Your second sentence seems to contradict your first.
Besides, snapshotting is still somewhat minimal in Feral. There’s exactly two abilities that snapshot our bleeds and they’re Bloodtalons and Tiger’s Fury. Everything else dynamically adjusts our DoTs just like every other class in the game. It’s not like the old days of snapshotting where we had to make sure our bleeds all applied in our Trinket windows or anything like that.
I mean, technically no but if you’re not using Bloodtalons to buff each of your Rips and Rakes then you are objectively playing poorly. Considering BT makes the exception to apply for the whole length of bleeds that’s clearly its intended use. So I’m not sure how you’re envisioning BT that doesn’t involve using it as a snapshotting tool.
What do you mean gameplay change for feral? there literally isnt a gameplay change or major change to feral - its just return of 3 or 4 abilities, blizz already said this multiple times
I’m envisioning a more powerful BT that didn’t snapshot bleeds and made for a powerful Ferocious Bite. Would actually make me like it a lot. But w/e, by the shadowlands preview it’s going to work very differently and I think it’s going to displease everyone.
Search for “WoW Dreamgrove Discord” on Google. Yes they would help new players. They have lots of experts there who are happy to help people learn. Check out their resources tab before you start asking questions though since the first thing they tend to do is refer you there if you ask a question that’s answered in their guides.
1- Blood Talons : Screw this talent. I still don’t use it because it’s not fun. It reminds me of the unforgiving nature of Monks Combo Strikes back in the day.
2- Snapshotting : 100% agree. We’re unfortunately past WoW’s lifecycle where snapshotting can even be a thing. At the most, they could maybe make snapshotting increase effectiveness by 5-10% MAX. Do we really want to have an incredibly stressful rotation for a few extra DPS that isn’t going to be noticable on the meters in any real way?
If you execute your rotation to its max potential, you’re going to maybe hit the top 5 of the meters. If you fail it, you’re at the bottom. Back in the day, snapshotting made you look like a hero. It’s not the case anymore.
Energy Starvation / APM : Druids have plenty of buttons they can be hitting and they can be more tactical when they play. You don’t need to be smashing the keys like a demon hunter otherwise just go play a demon hunter if you need that feeling.
Fierce felines will see their Bloodtalons Talent reimagined, tapping into their primal power. When Feral Druids use Shred, Rake, and Ferocious Bite in quick succession, the damage of their next Rip will increase dramatically.
I agree that this statement is vague, but I think that is exactly my problem with the statement. Class designers got into a room pre-alpha and came up with this. One vague line that seems to have no thought behind it, no understanding of how feral has been played for years.
Feels like these people got in a room stared at each other and had no imagination or desire.
There is nothing wrong or hard about using Bloodtalons. If you don’t like it, talent something else. The thing I see most often is why is a heal part of our dps rotation … shrug. Still don’t see what the problem is … toss a heal on yourself, toss it on a friend. I mean if that is the major complaint, just make Bloodtalon an active ability itself. This is a pretty unimaginative way to ‘fix’ not wanting to cast a heal.
Maybe this change will make sense when additional changes come to light, but the fact that it’s not in the initial class change update just shines a huge light on a reoccurring issue… the devs just don’t know what to do with feral.
I completely agree, which is why I purposefully avoid taking Bloodtalons. I personally think it’s bad design.
Since my main focus is M+ content, I’m needing to do a lot of support with the team. I.e. blowing mobs out of sanguine, stunning mobs to avoid mechanics, help the healer with grevious… the list goes on and on.
The point I’m trying to make is having downtime on your rotation and team support via Bloodtalons can seriously gimp your dps. I’ve been running, as of recent, 75k to 80k overall dps by simply running Omen of Clarity.
What a lot of people asking this changes don’t get from those who don’t want it, is that once this gameplay is removed from feral there won’t be any class with that.
You want to play a cp builder with finishers but not worrying about snapshot? Go play rogue.
Want to play a high apm priority hit, go play warrior. High apm proc based? Enh. High apm rotation? Dh. LOw apm priority? Pally. Micro manage but no snapshot, go play uh dk.
But there isn’t any snapshot on those, feral was the only one. Now, snapshoting doesn’t necessarily means bt instant regrowth mechanic, just something to make your next attack hit more.
As I’ve said a lot, there is a easy way to solve this, and it’s to have both builds viable, incarnation vs bt. It’s as easy as that, those who want to spam and have more direct energy can use incarn burst, those who like to plan ahead and prefer not to spam knowing that 3 seconds waited might be a lot of difference, go bt. This change only kills one idea and don’t even solve the other gameplay because those who think we have energy problems won’t be happy, nor people who want snapshot gameplay. This is a middle ground that seems to be kind of the worst scenario.
My top wish is this: for nature’s sake, give us ferals a baseline vanish already!
We’re not asking to be better than rogues. We’re simply asking to have better tools to utilize our stealth and the limited kit that comes with it.
As for Bloodtalons, all i can say is: i expect heavy resistance from those who love and excelled the current form, and lots of tuning/painstaking balancing if they insist to proceed a rework from ground up.
