This is the type of attitude that makes changes final. Ion even said that they’re more likely to change in alpha than in beta. Point being, if there is an issue it needs to be said clear and loudly. This type of rhetoric helps no one.
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Ion is going to refuse to tweak Feral because some people are skeptical? Well isn’t that petty of him.
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I wasnt responding to you but adding on to your response to someone saying “Relax This is early early alpha, there are months and months of changes to come.”
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Appreciating the shift in tact, it is legitimately helpful in moving conversation forward, and away from squabbles that constipate threads.
Completely agree that design philosophies and feedback concerning what needs to be altered, needs to be vocalised now.
Considering how BFA was handled, benefit of the doubt should not be at all maintained.
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We had in wotlk right? Taken out and I doubt we’d get it back due to PvP. Unless they make it pve only.
We’ve suffered through two expansions of feral being trash, with the exception of the end of Legion. I’ve made dozens of futile posts, in-game suggestions (pretty sure these don’t even get read), and eventually just stopped. This is the first time I’ve commented on the state of feral in a long time, and it’s funny because the people in denial over what has happened to the development of this spec are still saying the same thing… “just wait.”
I have waited, through two alphas, two betas, and two expansions for something to be done to make a group want to take a feral over a DH, and I’m still waiting. BR doesn’t cut it because many groups already have a rdruid, and if they don’t it’d still be better to bring a balance druid or DK for it. Making leader of the pack baseline would instantly solve this.
I’d also like to not die in 0.1 seconds when focused in PvP, so making it so you can still do comparable DPS for a short duration while in bear form, and adding some form of magic mitigation would help.
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Thing is feral wouldnt have worked in the end of legion either if it hadnt been for abilities from artifact weapon, in reality it was still trash/broken. It was just covered up by artifact weapon.
Feral has started working in 8.3 for those few that have BIS azerite traits and BIS corruptions (basically crit corruptions on every snigle piece of gear possible).
Another expansion where this broken/trash spec has been temporary “fixed” by features of the last patch.
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never forget 8.0 feral…I sincerly hope this is not all feral is getting because this is a slap in the face. We don’t want all 4 specs topping the charts in everything. We just want feral to be fun again like it use to be. Take shapeshifting off the gcd, dont take away survival instincts and just give us barkskin, bring back leader of the pack, make bash baseline…that’s a start.
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I’m a total noob with druids. I only discovered druids in BfA, and I leveled my first one ever in season 2.
I’m a healer main, so I played my druid in season 2 for M+ and fell in love with it. I have tried to learn to feral, and though I found snapshots for bleeds very confusing at first, I worked through it and got to an appropriate DPS average in 5-mans with my guild.
I’m not any good, yet, but I want to main my druid in Shadowlands.
I was DEEPLY concerned to see that the only thing mentioned for feral was Bloodtalons. If I’m concerned, I would hope that the more experienced druids are also upset about it.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to tell people to just sit and be quiet and wait for changes. As a shaman main, I can tell you that got us absolutely squat until the end of BfA after we’d made enough noise about the deficiencies of shaman specs. Better to make the noise for feral NOW when they’re actually still predisposed to listen and make changes.
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I honestly like how Bloodtalons is right now. Its what I hated the absolute most about it because it makes you use your only proc to heal yourself just to use a stupid damage buff. I want to save my healing buff as needed and given the absurd Crit chance you get as Feral, you can get quite the amount of health back on cast from the proc. So instead, you just have to use it to empower your finisher and Rake for that crap.
For the moment, this is IMO a better improvement because I never loved Blood Talons from the start, never will. Same goes for Savage Roar because that’s already a lot of upkeep in trying to keep tabs on your bleeds.
So I hope there’s more changes later that improves them but I’m happy so far with this.
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You don’t find the new Bloodtalons too clunky? Or too restrictive on your rotation?
While I like old Bloodtalons (I created a mouseover UI for it and I actually set up my UI such that I could easily put that heal where it needed to be in my party every CP cycle such that it was never wasted.) I agree it can be improved but the new version seems like a step backwards for me and I don’t think we should settle for a bad redesign just because we’re hungry for a redesign?
I’m also a little confused as I would assume the natural reaction to not liking Bloodtalons would be to simply take Moment of Clarity instead. So you liking the Bloodtalons redesign would imply to me that you had a positive reaction to it such that you’re willing to actually take the talent now. So in an interest to stir up more conversation on the topic could you elucidate more on what it is you like about new Bloodtalons? I’ve honestly had a very visceral negative reaction to it so I’m curious to hear from someone who seems to like it.
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Every Alpha since TBC people have been saying the same thing and you know whats funny? everyone who’s shown concern in Alpha have been right cause those problems always make it to live.
You might have 4 or 5 classes that look good in Alpha and everyone else is fighting for scraps.
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ok tell me what your rotation is with this new change
You’d think since bloodtalons was the only change that they could do a better job clarifying the new rotation, because it all depends on the wording…
If you have to rake, shred, then ferocious bite to proc it, then this is the most idiotic change I have seen in my 15 years of playing WoW. However, if you can either rake, or shred, or ferocious bite three times, then, while completely taking away the moderate amount of skill required to properly use bloodtalons, this would at least make for an easier, more fluid rotation then having to micromanage a nonsensical sequence of rake -> shred -> FB.
I wish they would do something to normalize all hybrid heals… I want my heals to be impactful, if only for a short time. Not asking to be able to spam regrowth and keep someone alive in 2’s with dampening, but my heals should do something. And yes, you’re not wrong with with your other statements.
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Here’s and idea - read the alpha forums from the last two expansions. It’s not early - its late!
The well thought out responses literally could be copied and pasted from Legion’s alpha responses and/or BFA’s alpha responses.
For once, I’d like feral to not have to wait 1/2 through an expansion to be band-aided into relevance.
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Be aware the the alpha forums are still locked for some people who are in alpha.
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We want to get a good rip up as quickly as possible. As it stands in shadowlands alpha, open with Rake, shred, burn the combo points you have on Ferocious bite (ew) to proc bloodtalons, shred/brutal slash until 5cp, +50% rip. It’s a long ramp up and doesn’t really do much to address the real problems feral has right now.
Currently, when you go into a fight with bloodtalons up, you rake from prowl and immediately rip so that both of your dots get the 25% snapshot damage buff. You then shred/brutal slash as fast as you can to have a ferocious bite refresh the buffed rip and use subsequent charges of bloodtalons on rake refreshes, ferocious bites, or brutal slashes if you’re good on the first two.
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I don’t even know why they’re changing Bloodtalons. It’s been in the game since MoP and it’s never been an issue. It allows snapshotting which is a huge part of the spec and that’s what makes it unique. Why it’s not baseline considering its perfect synergy with Predatory Swiftness, we’ll never know. Without it the spec just plays almost exactly like an assass rogue. Why don’t they just balance the other talents in that row, or swap a few around to maybe make some more viable options if blizzard thinks it’s genuinely a problem, but there are a lot of people who don’t want to see BT change and this is frustrating to me considering it’s always been my favorite talent.
The problems feral has isn’t with the rotation whatsoever, it’s with the lack of utility they bring to PvE. They’re perfectly fine in PvP right now they just need something extra like LotP to make Feral more desirable in PvE. They already pull viable single target DPS, their main issue is with M+ where there’s no real reason to take one over any other melee. Also blizzard’s “fix” for feral’s bad multi target damage was to just give them crimson tempest which I think is one of the dumbest changes they’ve ever made to the spec and it just further made Feral feel like discount Assassination rogue.
We need more utility and better talent options considering Sabertooth is the best talent BY FAR for single target even though it oversimplifies the rotation for no reason. It wasn’t good when it was first implemented but then blizzard took away our execute range and made SBT buff FB damage because they apparently wanted it to be the best talent even though that goes against any common sensicle design philosophy that if something is more difficult, it should be more rewarding.
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Yeah, in legion your AE was basically just Thrash. Proccing them shadow thrashs. Noone even swiped. The spec needs some serious attention, it obviously cant be balanced properly in its current iteration, its either OP or trash.
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