For Feral I would like to see a cast heals and cyclone while in form. Considering druids have been referenced as the masters of shapeshifting, would that not constitute that they have mastered casting while in form?
I will say having increased healing for Feral is a little bit of a throwback to days gone past when they could throw healing gear on in a blink and stabilize the group to eventually get a brez off on the healer.
This however, is a far cry from being able to actually being able to stabilize the group outside of Heart of the Wild talent.
4 Likes
This is purely from a gameplay prospective.
Ret is in a better place overall compared to before, but in terms of how much fun it actually is to play in terms of the actual dps rotation, itās pretty whatever.
Anyway, the point was not about ret specifically. You would need to read the entire thing to actually understand what the point was about originally.
The original point was about good and bad passives, wildstalker is boring.
People chase numbers. Ret soared in numbers after the rework.
They are not mutually exclusive
You are being generous here. Ferals donāt even get access to these spells unlike Rejuvenation, Sunfire, and Wild Growth, which can be accessed, if not ever used due to not being able to cast in cat form. Though Rejuvenation and Wild Growth are usually only taken in order to path to Remove Corruption on Afflicted M+ weeks. Another shining example of how borked the Druid class tree is for Ferals trying to have any utility.
I suppose the flip side for kitty weaver Restos is no access to Brutal Slash and and Tigerās Fury. For them the biggest loss is Tigerās Fury which does have decent up time for Ferals with Raging Fury.
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didnt you know, druids are master of shapeshifting as long as it isnt feral then that mastery is completely forgotten locked away out of reach. i cant remember the last time shapeshifting didnt feel like a downside. sure its good for stuff like roots but thats pretty much it outside of i have to go bear or this hit will kill me
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15% leech and versatility could probably achieve the same outcome.
5 Likes
Feral POV Feedback
The good:
- Theme cool, Bloodseeker Vines sound neat & hopefully they get nice effects.
- Healing nodes are cool, & so is the ability for us to also proc Bloom. Healing-niche for our defensives + minor group benefit feels like a good direction for the tree.
- Early āfeelyā assumption is the tree seems to be fairly talent neutral, & should hopefully keep a lot of choice in our regular talent tree while still having a few nice synergies or key nodes to grab.
- The synergy between all the Vine nodes themselves is fantastic (issues with how Vines initially proc however, outlined in a sec).
- Strategic Infusion is also fantastic, happy to see a stealth benefit in here.
Issue 1: Bloodseeker Vines as a Proc
I think proccing off Rip/Rake damage is problematic.
- Potentially favours AOE too much when things like Rip already struggles a bit in finding the right balance between ST vs AOE tuning. Maybe itās controlled by target capping + rppm proccing or whatever though, obviously I donāt know the finer details here.
- RNG aspect just wonāt feel good, there is no control over it & no gameplay tied to it so youāll just be rolling dice all the time with this tree. No player has ever said āI wish Blizzard added more RNG to my spec,ā itās objectively not cool.
The Implant node is the only exception here where we have control and is well-done in this regard, & my wish would be you guys finding more creative ways to reliably spawn Vines akin to this.
Rip/Rake having a tiny chance to proc them as a secondary effect could be fine, but I feel a primary or reliable way to proc (doesnāt have to be complex) & then spreading with Twin Sprouts & potentially also some gameplay to spread in itself would be more interesting.
Issue 2: Interaction with Rotation
- Minimal gameplay or decisions here (small incentive to multidot I guess but massively diminished with things like Primal Wrath & probably will have heavy target-capping anyway). Largely ends up as passive free damage for Feral.
- Vines are actually more interesting for Resto Druids in this regard because you have gameplay involved with spreading Rip.
- The capstone is actually interesting, mainly in multi-target scenarios you can find a small incentive in targeting Vine mobs which yeah I do feel is in the spirit of a DOT spec & switching targets, or simply blanketing as many targets with DOTs to benefit.
I think the capstone is the right direction but this incentive or gameplay is largely lost in single-target. Expanding this premise to maybe also have some single-target abilities interact with Vines in some way, such as empowering either the Vines or the ability used, especially if you had choice in how you interact with the Vine based on what ability is first used on them.
If we look at Resto, Blooms synergizes with a lot of abilities, e.g. via Resto Mastery (a broad benefit to targeting Bloom targets with heals on top of the capstone), Swiftmend, Flourish/VI & a bunch of other things.
- One small single-target feature that the capstone does well is again through the Implant Node, where thereās some gameplay pairing FF with other CDs for the guaranteed Vine which is cool.
Issue 3: AOE-focused nodes gameplay also slightly less interesting for Feral compared to Resto
- As a DPS you are probably more often than not only fighting one-target, whereas as a healer you always have a party or raid to heal.
- Twin Sprouts ā chance to duplicate onto another nearby target. I am curious if in single-target do you get another Vine on your main target or is this wasted? If the latter, then this is obviously not a problem for Bloom.
- Bursting Growth ā AOE dmg/healing when Vines expire, besides potential overhealing or tuning, the design is more consistently suited for Resto. Exacerbated if Twin Sprouts does not work in single target.
- Vigorous Creepers (capstone) ā given the healing values are marginally lower you guys probably already thought how Resto might benefit more (from more amps out) but will note anyway.
Etc, some of this is just a matter of tuning where the Feral values may need to be different (like with Vigorous Creepers), but IMO something like Twin Sprouts should definitely duplicate when 1 target if it doesnāt already.
Issue 4: Wildstalkerās Prescence (Rake 20% longer)
Donāt think this is the way to go, not a good look when the tree is already lacking a bit in gameplay for Feral, as this negatively impacts rotation by instead spamming more filler, partially cancelling out effect of talents like Circle, negatively impacting BT proccing and so on. Honestly I was kind of hoping some DOTs were reduced in duration going forward, particularly Rips single target length.
However Iām not here to advocate adding major complexity to this tree or the addition of keybinds or anything, but I do kindly ask for this to be reconsidered.
I think you should look to target Veinripper with tuning (maybe even positioning) instead to achieve this (so long as its tuned to still be optional as it suffers similar issues).
Potential
Lots of potential with this tree, I will just summarise the things I hope you guys might look to adjust/find solutions for:
- More reliable way to proc Vines, minimising RNG and ideally tying to gameplay even if simple.
- More synergies between Feral abilities and Vines, like how Resto has numerous with Blooms.
- Finding ways to make the gameplay and Vine nodes more interesting for Feral when thereās only 1 target (addressing previous two points should naturally solve this however).
- Longer Rake replaced with something more interesting.
I will lastly say itās a mildly disappointing thereās no shapeshifting gameplay for Feral at all in this tree, however I understand it would be challenging making something that feels good for this.
9 Likes
As far as class fantasy I kinda expected feral to dip into resto abilities and vice versa. Like mabye feral getting treants to heal you in combat etc
Those two spells are obviously Resto druid only, but I wanted to emphasize throughout the ātuning changesā that they are buffs to abilities you cannot use in Cat Form.
Resto Druids could access the benefits of Bloodseeker Vines with only a two-point investment in Rake and Rip. Feral would have a three-point investment into Rejuv, Swiftmend, and Wild Growth - and then be unable to use any of those abilities in Cat Form.
For Resto, you are encouraged to Catweave, but you are still classified as ranged for mechanics and your Cat Form gives 5% healing done, which you cannot even utilize.
For Feral, you have no encouragement to do anything different than you already are, and the tree offers no comment on making healing talents more usable for you.
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Well Iām not sure what version of Resto you have been playing but MF/SF are still core DPS abilities for Resto, and you are regularly shifting based on energy or other factors such whether you will get enough globals in catform to be worth, range, and so on, in addition to always maintaining SF on trash. Regardless, there is no doubt this tree is intended to still be useful for Resto for when they canāt catweave or are limited in doing so (probably a lot of raid fights) and having benefit to MF/SF is surely important in those scenarios.
Thereās definitely a lot of other forms of healing for Feral in form like Natureās Vigil, Frenzied Regen procs, Renewal, Adaptive Swarm, Convoke the Spirits, now Blooms, and potentially even Leech (Iām assuming Leech wonāt work with this however).
Thereās going to be more minor passive nodes in Hero trees like this, I think your expectations are a little high expecting every node to be super meaningful.
Well you typically put out HOTs before any Cat shifting and even then thereās some things you can cast in form like Treants and Swarms. But I mean yeah itās a boring node for sure but thatās just how Hero talents kind of work, Iād say Glisterning Fur is far worse for this however. For Feral Iām kind of fine with any +healing nodes and MF part is useful too, as opposed to just a generic buff to our finishers that Fur provides.
Iām honestly confused what you mean here, especially after you were saying the tree brings nothing for Feral, yet now itās so complex we need weakauras and have to adjust the timings of our abilities?
I do agree with you when you said the tree doesnāt offer enough gameplay interaction for Feral, but when you post stuff like this you are telling the devs the opposite and encouraging them not to change anything due to complexity. Because yeah, itās total BS what you have said here.
I respect your wish to do more hybrid healing with this tree, but I think itās wishful thinking expecting us to benefit massively from Blooms. Healer role is innately more of a hybrid role and at least personally my expectations were pretty low when it came to Feral receiving +healing stuff from this tree, as Blizzard is quick to apply nerfs anytime hybrid healing gets too good.
Thereās also times Resto canāt Catweave at all to benefit from Vines, or will have limited Rip/Rake uptime, let alone no Primal Wrath or whatever to easily proc it, nor will their Mastery benefit it (but I guess this goes both ways with Bloom).
I would also like to see more interaction with Resto stuff if done right, but I also think us not being able to benefit from Wild Growth or Effloresence is such a non-issue really, but just my opinion of course.
I mean if they added Wild Growth to Pred Swiftness so we can proc blooms, Iām all for that, but I also know how quickly that would get nerfed.
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Seems like feral and WW monk always get end of the stick.
Just saying the talent for feral seems bad unless we can cast heal in kitty form we might be able to provide more for the groupā¦
The hero talent doesnāt help feral and the issue is feral have to pick either do meh in AoE and bad in ST or do good in ST or crap in AoE. We have too many node in the spec tree that just provide more damage is not fun. DoT and bleed donāt work in m+ since mobs die too fast for DoTs to damage. Front loaded spec always win. Until that can be fix any DoT or bleed class will always fall behind in m+. Heck even sin rogue is falling behind and it was the best rogue spec right after the rework and now outlaw and Sub both are better. Alff lock is still one of the worse if not the worse spec for m+. Adding another bleed simply doesnāt help and a chance to proc for more damageā¦
Sure any spec can do 99% of the content but when druid have moonkin as a DPS spec which provide more utilities than a feral and does more damage and is range why would Abu group pick a feral over a boomy or another dps.
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I only play druid as an alt, but when I do I am always resto. I feel like wildstalker has a lot of cool things to help you steer into resto catweaving, but as many have already said, it seems kind of lackluster for a feral druid. Questions/thoughts:
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Do the vines/blooms have a chance to spawn on cast of the relevent abilities, or every time those abilities tick? If the latter, which I assume is the case, this could go a long way for catweaving druids to be able to maintain relevent healing while doing damage, and relevent damage while healing. Get your hots/dots up, switch forms, and maintain whatever role you were just doing while building up dots/hots in the other role then switching back. Efflorescence triggering the blooms will also push resto wildstalkers even more into a close range/melee healer role, which is neat.
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As-is, the tree seems to provide much less for feral wildstalkers. A passive extra DoT is fine, but feral rarely wants to spend much time jumping back into caster form, and seems like it will hardly ever benefit from the healing bonuses of the hero class except when using natureās swiftness or clearcasts.
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We still donāt know how the main talent trees or the classes themselves might change in TWW. If feral wildstalkers somehow got access to efflorescence or easier use of wild growth (such as by causing it to be affected by clearcasting) then this hero class could present some interesting options to allow feral to work as a very strong backup/maintenance healer while still fulfilling a strong primary dps role.
3 Likes
Dmg treants that look like little kittens and Put rake on them !
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Why resiliant vine only apply on the dps and not on HoT. When target reach max hp jump on another injured one
the 1 single like this thread has really showcases the state of this hero tree.
Please, scrap it. Itās the worst of the 3 druid trees weāve seen. Instead, make this tree buff stealth, and allow more (or all) healing spells to be cast in cat form.
Suggestions:
Rogue stealth has a 2 sec CD. this would be a good first talent for Wild-STALKER.
Rejuv, Swiftmend and Wildgrowth are pre-reqs to move through the general tree. Those 3 spells at the very least, should be castable in cat form.
Regrowth and Entangling roots should not require a proc to keep you in cat form; the proc should just be to make them instant.
The DoT and HoT element is alright for this tree, so maybe it could have talents for Insect Swarm.
3 Likes
I do not like the keystone and capstone talents.
They are boring. My heals sometimes doing more healing, and my bleeds sometimes doing more bleeding damage, entirely passively, is just ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. This does not require me to change my target priority nor does it get me to change my rotation of abilities overall.
Recommended rework for KEYSTONE:
- Vines should be pets that occasionally spawn with a limited duration (they are invulnerable and canāt be targeted)
- When a vine spawns it will have a 50% chance of being a bloodvine or a symbiotic vine
- Bloodvines will attack targets that you are in combat with, prioritizing targets affected by your rip or rake, and will slowly become āfullā on their own
- You can help the vine get more āfullā by dealing damage to the same target the bloodvine is attacking
- After 6 seconds attacking a target or if the bloodvine becomes 100% full, it will expire and leave a powerful bleed on its current target and all other nearby enemies (dealing more damage the more āfullā the vine was)
- Symbiotic vine will attach to an ally, and provide healing to that ally over time, prioritizing an injured ally.
- Symbiotic vine will slowly get āfullā on itās own but you can help it get more āfullā too. The vine will absorb a copy of some of the overhealing done to the target and other nearby allies, as well as a copy of some of the regular healing you do to the ally with Regrowth, Swiftmend, or Nourish.
- After 6 seconds of healing an ally or if the symbiotic vine becomes 100% full, it will expire and leave a powerful heal over time effect on the ally and other nearby allies.
Recommended rework for CAPSTONE:
- During Berserk, tree of life or tranquility, summon 2 vines every 10 seconds
Recommended rework for Twin Sprouts:
- Bloodseeker vines have a 10% chance to become a Symbiotic vine instead of expiring
- Symbiotic vines have a 10% chance to become a Bloodseeker vine instead of expiring
Recommended rework for Implant:
- Feral Frenzy immediately summons a Bloodseeker vine to attack the target
- Casting Regrowth that is made instant via Natureās Switness immediately summons a Symbiotic Vine on the target
Recommended rework for Resilient Flourishing:
- Bloodseeker and Symbiotic Vines become full faster on their own
Recommended rework for Root Network:
- Bloodseeker and Symbiotic Vines last 2 seconds longer and can become 20% more full
Also a note about Hunt Beneath Open Skies:
- The damage increase to moonfire and sunfire should be more like 20%
Notes about fantasy:
- in Dungeons and Dragons, the druid class has a lot of āvine and thornā abilities
- in Diablo 2 (and 4) the druid has a vine creeper pet that follows the player around
4 Likes
Im kinda dissapointed in this tree a bit. I think it would be nice if it would let your cast some healing ability into cat form but also would let u use combo point to reduce cast time of other. Similar to Maelstorm weapon from Shammy
Like first thing would let u cast reju or swiftmend into cat form. And capstone would let u gain Combo point for castable healing one. And maybe gain a little effect depending on how many combo were used
1 Like
I mean the dmg is cool but should let u cast it into cat form too. Otherwise Sunfire is useless for Feral
3 Likes
I took a look at the Wildstalker tree as this will most likely be my default for Resto (as I dislike Grove Guardians) and I have to say this needs some work. It is the least exciting Hero tree that Iāve seen yet. Very passive altogether which is disappointing. I took a few hours re-working this and here are the changes I think would make this Hero tree worth taking and more interesting:
(replaces bursting growth) Swipe and shred critical strikes on targets affected by Bloodseeker Vines have a chance to cause the vines to become gorged with the targetās blood for 6 seconds. Additional attacks against the target will cause the vines to lash out dealing additional physical damage to the target and nearby enemies. Damage reduced above 5 targets.
Wildgrowth and Rejuvenation passive critical heals on targets affected by Symbiotic Blooms have a chance to cause Blooming blossoms for 6 seconds. Additional healing to the target will release ancient pollen onto nearby allies healing them the next time they take damage. This effect stacks.
Implant (revised)
Feral Frenzy immediately causes a Bloodseeker vine to grow on the target. If a Bloodseeker vine is already active on the target then it causes the vine to become Gorged.
Casting Regrowth that is made instant via Natureās swiftness causes a Symbiotic Bloom to grow on the target. If Symbiotic Bloom is already active on the target it causes Blooming Blossoms on the target.
Warden of the Cenarion (revised flower walk)
During Barkskin your body becomes covered in vines increasing your movement speed by 10 percent and causing vines to spread from the druidās feet that absorb damage on up to 3 nearby injured allies every second stacking.
I was disappointed to see some really interesting talent trees go to classes like rogues and ret paladins while feral druids/resto druids fell by the wayside. The Grove Guardian tree is interesting enough, but this one definitely needed some help to be more viable.
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I think they could simplify feral and add back in with the hero talents. Agree feral is too complicated to add another layer, but all passives also feels weak.
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