I tested Warrior Fury in the beta and found the changes great, especially the ease of getting shockwaves. However, even with the shockwave I still think that the warrior doesn’t have enough useful skills to compete with other classes. If we are going to get plate users we have dk with brez, and pally with brez bop freedom auras and such. Just the battle cry and the rallying cry (which will hardly save someone with only 10% temporary health) is not enough. we could receive the disrupting shout to mitigate the damage to the group from a heavy aoe, or even a lust so that we would only be called by the lust in the group (which is not what I would like, but I wouldn’t complain if I received it), or something unique new such as a banner, which increased versatility or gave a buff that meant that 15% of the damage or healing caused became a temporary shield for a few seconds.
Battering Ram: Maybe I’m missing something, but this talent feels incredibly bad.
I remember this talent was somewhat a lock in for most of Dragonflight until it was nerfed by a chunk in the most recent set of tuning. Fundementally, this has a lot of ‘under the hood’ power with the loop of a faster attack speed leading to more Shield Slam resets leading to more rage / cooldown reduction which leads to more cooldown reduction and rage - fundementally, this could actually be quite strong and was in part a reason for the nerf of the talent. I would be interested to see if the talent could be reworked in a way that makes it a better option that isn’t entirely oppressive in terms of forcing a pick. The cooldown reduction is something I could be on board with, but with the option of Shield Charge already having block up time tied to it this might not be a healthy pick for talent flexibility. Maybe the option to make Shield Charge into a single target damage nuke that drops off of secondary targets alongside the auto attack increase might be a healthy way to give the talent some more distinction.
I see, that makes a lot more sense now.
The reason I was suggesting the change is for bosses like EDNA where you absolutely need a rotating defensive to survive that tank buster that happens at the same time as the laser, I was stuck sacrificing Unstoppable Force (50% Thundeclap CDR during avatar) to get Immovable object (4 sec of Shield Wall during Avatar) just to survive the hit on higher keys.
I was essentially doing Avatar + Spell reflect (DR for laser) + DoT dispell (25% dr for 3 sec) —> demo shout + spell reflect + DoT dispell —> repeat. While I was surviving, this build felt absolutely horrible to play with mountain thane for the entire rest of the dungeon given how much I like Unstoppable force.
The shield wall for 3 secs during Shield Charge thing would just be a way for us to cover that, and Avatar already has a 45 second cooldown with anger management so it would give us the same utility of immovable object but put it on shield wall.
The other thought I had but haven’t tested is going Colossus in that dungeon, still using Immovable object and doing the following for EDNA’s tank buster:
Avatar (w/ Shield Wall from immovable object) + spell reflect —> demo shout + spell reflect + demolish (10% DR during demolish cast + 5% more DR from stacks if done during the cast) —> repeat
You would have to get the cast of the tank buster to happen during demolish, which would be tricky with high haste, but ultimately might give more DR than the extra 5% DR on demo should +8% DR from thunder blast in the mountain thane tree
Hi,
Can we please, once and for all just ditch SLAM. It really serves no real purpose. I don’t have it on my bars. I have not had it on my bars the last thee expansions now.
Can we have Spell Reflect, and Intimidating Shout be baked in, innate Warrior abilities?
I know I just posted the other day about consolidating/trimming up our talent tree a bit. I was just talking to some other warriors in “live” about how things are progressing for us as warriors, and all three of us were not excited and feeling jazzed about where we are at. I want to, they want to feel pumped up and ready to go full tilt ZUG Zug…but right now I am just not feeling it. Ugh!
Quiz: think of an expansion where slam was good
wotlk, cata and mop
If I concede this it means slam has been good less than half the time
Warrior needs a complete rework for all 3 specs, lets get the word out and get the community to rally around us (no pun intended) like they did shaman and hunter
i mean it was good in tbc too you just had to watch a swing timer add on xd
Fury is fantastic right now. Arms… really depends on what you want out of it.
Personally, I don’t care about Slam. It’s a low priority filler that you don’t even push all that much for how many MS/OP resets you get, and push even less if you’re also playing SkS, Uproar, or Slayer with increased Sudden Deaths.
The most controversial part of Arms isn’t even Slam though, it’s whether you think the Execute phase should be spamming Execute or rotating Execute alongside Mortal Strike and Overpower. In DF it’s more of the former, while Beta is more the latter.
Idk about Hunter, but Warrior is in a way better place than Shaman is right now. May be a different story depending on how well next week’s build is received though.
I disagree with a complete rework, there are certainly some abilities that need to just be baked into the kit and make no sense to be talents. But most of this lies in with our mildly terrible general talent tree. The lack of group interacting talents, utility/cc w.e you wanna call it makes us far less competitive with nearly every class out there. I’ll not divulge too much into this as i’ve already posted many times including the very top of the thread about the lack of meaningful utility choices.
As for per spec, I don’t really have much qualm against any of the three specs aside from a few nit-picky things here and there.
Fury Warrior burst AoE is kind of our thing, and that’s a fun thing to be able to do. Can we get some kind of threat reduction built in somewhere? Not being able to play the game unless you’re with a high dps tank and/or great tank player isn’t exactly fun.
I would further argue that threat really isn’t a fun mechanic for anyone no matter what role you’re in. If you’re playing reasonably correctly as a tank I think threat should not even be on the radar as a concern.
I think in beta right now its just not tuned right and will be the same as every other expansion so maybe ignore that. But this reminded me of how I changed my thoughts on aggro/threat.
I played prot war in Burning Crusade so I know how bad fighting for aggro felt, believe me I hated it too but then I played some other games. You might be surprised.
Might be remembering this wrong but FFXIV used to have no taunts and to tank swap, the tank would use a different rotation and spells to pull threat. This sounds complicated but it was actually easy because the aggro moves were powerful(they just didn’t do much dps). If a player accidentally pulled off you, you would get the mob back in 1-2 GCDs. Then go back to your dps spells.
If you wanted to tank swap, you push the aggro rotation for 10 secs or so to pull the aggro. And a pro tank could look cool by keeping himself just under the main tanks aggro, so that when the swap came he could do it fast.
tldr threat can actually be fun with the right game design. I wouldn’t have thought it either.
Blizzard please address warrior utility. Fear is still capped. We need bloodlust and choice node 1.5 rally 10% vs 3m rally 20%.
Honestly they need to just make rally work at 100% effectiveness in 5 man content just like the other abilities that work this way.
Not to mention prot has seen zero iteration in 2 years and we never got the utility ability we should have during the df beta. Blizz literally iterated on like 4 different concepts of a cool new ability, scrapped them all, then decided to just not talk to us for 2 years.
Now here we are 2 years later and again zero iteration… I call for a rework or any semblance of iteration and basically told “shut up everything is fine”. It’s wild, truly wild.
Do you guys have fun with modern prot? Idk what it is but it feels so messy. Not sure how long it’s been this way. Maybe some people have learned it and get it but it’s like… a very messy series of short cooldowns. Shield Block can’t decide if it wants to be a defensive cooldown or part of the rotation, even buffing your shield slam damage. Shield Slam cooldown is refreshed nearly every cast but not quite, it’s erratic. I leveled this exact toon prot in vanilla but now I just do not play prot anymore.
I think the prot play style is extremely fun and dynamic. Shield Block should be near 100% uptime so it doesn’t matter about offensive or defensive.
The shield slam resets are what makes prot fun. It is very past paced decision making on dumping rage and building. Honestly happy they aren’t changing much to it.
My only issues with the prot spec is we lack just insane utility compared to top tanks.
Paladin:
- Infinite kick glitch
- sac
- bop/spell bop
- off-heal (loh, wog)
- battle rez
- 1.5 aoe stop uncapped
- 1m aoe silence
- devo aura/ret aura (way better buffs)
- poison/disease cleanse
- HoJ
Bear:
- 30s uncapped aoe incap
- Another 30s aoe knockback stop
- cleanse poison / decurse
- mark of the wild (way better buff)
- aoe group healing
- battle rez
- party wide movespeed
- soothe
- hibernate.
Vengeance:
- Chaos Brand (synergizes with way more comps)
- 45 uncapped aoe stun
- 1 minute aoe grip
- 1.5 minute aoe silence
- 1.5 minute aoe fear
- 45 imprison
- purge
- darkness
- ranged kick
- the past year they’ve had 2 charges of all sigils, fun times.
Deathknight:
- Grips
- 1min aoe sleet
- 1.5 minute AMZ
- Slappy hand
- Ranged kicked
- 1.5 minute aoe grip + silence
- ams on 2 people
- group wide movespeed
- group wide leech
- Battle rez
Brew:
Dont know much about their toolkit tbh but they need help from what I hear.
Then you have warrior:
- Bshout in 4 years of caster comp meta, cool.
- 30s stormbolt.
- 1.5 minute 5-mob capped fear
- 45s aoe 2s stun which should have been fixed 2 years ago
- 1.15m aoe kick.
- 3 minute 10% rally, wowza!
For our wonderful addition to utility, we get 10s cd increase to stormbolt to stun two random mobs nearby or 1sec to shockwave, who cares. The knock for dr protection + 5cdr isn’t that bad but man we need something more.
Intervene talent is actually good but should be baseline. Also this only exists on the mountain thane spec. It is silly that intervene still just prevents attacks in todays climate, it is either insanely op in arena because it blocks kidneys and such or completely useless vs caster comps or in pve all together. It is almost as puzzling as target caps on our aoe fear. Just change intervene baseline to stormshield and cook up something else.
Where is something substantial like another aoe stop, lust, battle rez or making rally even remotely competitive with amz, mass barrier, zephyr, etc?
Fatality the talent is kind of boring. I like the general concept, but the lackluster damage has made me be a bit more critical. Seems like it needs a buff at the very least or a redesign at best. For a capstone talent I’d like to see something that had some kind of influence on the way the class played or did something more interesting than ‘I pop for big damage once’. Like maybe generate stacks above 30% and then below 30% consume them for guaranteed crits on MS or something. Yes it will amount to more damage, which you can tune. But realistically fatality does like 4-5 ms worth of damage and is a capstone talent. Feels very weak but not really anything else to take in the tree. Just feels like a take it and forget it talent and there’s so many take it and forget it talents in the tree instead of things that feel like they meaningfully interact with your play. Not every talent needs to be super gameplay affecting, but even compared to fury you are looking at much more influential effects in the last tier or two than arms has.
I would love to see some kind of rework of both dps specs at least to give it some more knobs to turn for tuning. Since it seems like all the damage baked into one button for arms, and our AoE rotation being ST rotation + ww for fury making it hard to meaningfully make us have good ST without being bonkers in AoE and vice versa. This class hasn’t had a time to shine meaningfully in raid or 5 man content for awhile.
Ms is our top damage but it’s not like obliterate for frost dk, lava burst for ele, chaos bolt for destro, or even frost mage with glacial. Yes mortal strike leads it by a lot but it’s not like 80% of our damage or anything.
Ms is our top damage but it’s not like obliterate for frost dk, lava burst for ele, chaos bolt for destro, or even frost mage with glacial. Yes mortal strike leads it by a lot but it’s not like 80% of our damage or anything.
You are not wrong but even then most of the mechanics of the class lean towards buffing MS. OP, EP, etc. They all just make mortal strike truck, and if you aren’t taking execute talents which as Arms with the (rage gen in execute phase you really aren’t at the moment in beta) then everything even in execute is in service of buffing MS. So I’m less speaking of breakdown and more that the entire class is centered on the idea of trying to press ms on cd and every other gcd possible buffing your next ms while not wasting rage. I enjoy the gameplay of arms generally, I just think it’s a little stale and specifically I think the fatality talent could be a place to add something different to the class more than just another passive node. Even better, make that talent more interesting + make it a choice node with something mechanically similar to condemn. Would give some control/decision making over damage profiles for certain situations that would also be cool.