Feedback: Warriors

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Warriors in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team


Hero Talent Feedback
As I’ve messed around with all three of them on the alpha a fair bit, I’d say the designs are satisfactory for me personally. They’ve sort of all have their unique flavor from a combat perspective.

My only concern for them compared some other hero talents sets for other classes ( Which you guys may already be addressing and i’m not aware ) Is the visuals for specifically Slayer and Colossus. There’s not much other then seeing a Slayer turning to a bayblade at random that would set them apart from another warrior other then it being a little more frequent, the bladestorms don’t have any unique visuals that set them apart from a normal bladestorm as of last I was on alpha the day before servers went down for Beta-setup. Same for colossus, Demolish looked more like any other swipe and bash attacks warriors have had in recent years though I did notice there’s a small ground texture effect at the end of the slam, so it lead me to wonder if it’s a placeholder for a more impressive heavy hitting animation you guys were working on. OTHER then visuals though i’ve fairly satisfied with how the hero talents are personally from a design perspective (As someone who mostly plays Arms on Warrior in High keys and heroic raid)

Updates below specifically answering some of the larger discussion points of my previous edit of the post.

I wouldn’t suggest giving warrior a Brez, or Lust as far too many classes have this already and it wouldn’t solve the issue HOWEVER something could be said for warrior having lust making it the only tank to have a lust capability, nor should they have a despell or purge as that doesn’t seem to fit the class fantasy.

I’d suggest some sort of displacement talent, as for example the last boss intermission in Nokhud warrior tanks and warriors in general have very little way to help group up the scattered caster mobs like some other tanks / classes do Interrupting shout being all warrior specs would be wonderful for things like this. Being able to pushback a single mob in a certain direction

Update: TLDR: Take this meathook utility idea blizzard added to phase 4 SOD, design it for retail gameplay on a choice node with Stormbolt or shockwave. Intervene redirecting all spells for the durable helps some with that. Incorp is retired so CC concerns are sorta non existent now for me.

Imo it would be a great addition for warrior’s utility toolkit and give them a larger amount of team interaction value in keys other then doing damage (And now re-directing spells).


so I heard you nerfing rage generation or something good move
I hate high rage economy so bad

hope we can be slow big chungus again as arms

The only feedback I’m able to offer at this time is in regards to Colossus Warrior’s Arterial Bleeding vs. One against Many choice node. At first glance it appears a fairly simple Single Target vs. AoE choice, but with Blood and Thunder as well as Cleave making spreading your bleeds trivial, One against Many feels like a tough sell.

One Against Many is extremely powerful in multitarget when you’re casting Cleave every other GCD.

Consider that Arterial Bleeding isn’t always at full value; assuming an average of ~8 stacks (because you sit at 10 stacks waiting on CD) that’s a ~16% bonus to your bleeds (which in my testing makes up ~14-15% of my multitarget damage), while One Against Many is up to +25% damage applied to ~30-40% of your damage. That’s not including the bonus to weaving in Whirlwind during Bonegrinder either.

It’s possible that with Rend and Deep Wounds spread to enough targets, that bleed damage will pull ahead, but between of One Against Many and Practiced Strikes, Colossus has a lot of Cleave emphasis.

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I wouldn’t quite call it slow, but it is much healthier - Arms is still basically GCD locked and can even have rage left over to use Ignore Pain in between, but it’s no longer generating 50+ rage a swing and constantly capped either.

Overall, it feels pretty good and can always be fine tuned over time if the need presents itself. The only real pain point right now is that Execute is a little too rage starved.


^Thanks. kinda sucky if it still has gcd lock though. I tried playing against a training dummy.

Completely agree with this. Didn’t read this until before because of the post length.
One of the concerns I had when the talents were previewed and posted is it was “more rogue in plate”.
Looks like that’s exactly what we got? For both trees. They both appear to add nothing to the fantasy that I can see. Just more fast frantic melee strikes?

Slayer gives you a melee strike randomly in the middle of other attacks and it straight up looks like something a Rogue or Fury Warrior (only Fury and not Arms) would do. I borderline laughed when I tested it earlier because the irony of not wanting to feel like a Rogue only to see the Slayer’s Strike animation proccing. As if god/universe/blizzard is trolling me personally with this animation that looks exactly like a Rogue strike.
Then Colossus, which should be the “slow” fantasy but has the main ability be a frantic 3 strike swing. That doesn’t even fit the spec name “Colossus” to me and both specs indeed feel visually similar.

Note because the gcd expires during Demolish, you will likely end the Demolish with an instant. Especially if we are still GCD locked.

(GCD here)
(GCD here)
Demolish (GCD expires during the 3 hits).
Mortal Strike
(GCD here)

That’s 4 animations of hitting with a weapon in just over two seconds. Straight up Rogue. I wonder if Arms should’ve actually got Mountain Thane and Fury Colossus.


I have yet to play beta properly, once it is stable.

However, I need to say this:

Thank You!

for returning the Bladestorm ability to Fury Warriors.
Since Mists of Pandaria, it is the most iconic ability to play my favorite Warrior spec.

During Dragonflight my Warrior felt incomplete, so I focused on my Monk instead.

Please never take it away again. :slight_smile:


I find it very hard to get excited about Mountain Thane

Thematically, it’s Dwarven Racial fantasy. Doesn’t click with me as a Troll. It’s basically just doing a lot of pad damage with lightning effects with some nods to a WC3 unit. I liked Whirlwind just fine, I’m not excited to press Thunder Clap on Fury :person_shrugging:

Functionally, it requires Fury to drop talent points into Thunder Clap from the general tree. Which makes the whole build feel like addition through subtraction, as we are giving up utility, mobility, or survivability to use our core rotation. (Would greatly help if Thunder Clap was baseline for Warriors or automatically learned as Mountain Thane.) I feel like I’ll only PvP as Slayer on Fury (unless Mountain Thane damage is way overtuned) because it will have 2 more available talent points in the general tree.

Additionally, both of the Utility choices Storm Shield/Storm Bolts are greatly overshadowed by utility in other trees. If Intervene now redirects spells to the Warrior, shouldn’t the Warrior be receiving the magic shield from Storm Shield? Or even both the Warrior and Intervened target? I’ll be avoiding Storm Bolts for sure, because of the increased CD. Boneshaker from Colossus is wayyyyyy better, due to being uncapped aoe 4 second stun. Whereas Storm Bolts is capped at 3 targets, only 2 second duration on the Bolts that cleave, and has the monkey’s paw CD increase.


  • Thunder Clap should be baseline for Warrior

  • Redesign Storm Shield/Storm Bolts

  • Mountain Thane needs something more exciting than just a bunch of chippy lightning damage. I think it’d set itself apart from the other Warrior specs by leaning into a more rangey/magic fantasy. Like having extra benefits for all of Warrior’s throwing attacks (Storm Bolt, Ravager, Champion’s Spear, Wrecking Throw, Shattering Throw, Heroic Throw). Perhaps there could be talents that give these attacks Stormstrike damage, increased range, CDR, etc.


Bruh as a Fury enthusiast do you have any interest in Colossus gameplay?
Because I would really go for Arms being Colossus/Mountain Thane.

Arms: Colossus/Mountain Thane
Fury: Colossus/Slayer
Prot: Slayer/Mountain Thane

Only requires a total redesign hehe. Prot’s style is typically more reactive with fewer melee strike spells but now they can choose a more offensive style with Slayer if they want it. Seems like a more meaningful choice to me. Bladestorm then needs to go to Prot since it’s all over the Slayer tree, or the talents apply to Ravager (maybe then someone would actually use Ravager).

I was playing it before, holey moley I would steal it for Arms in an instant. I would definitely talent into stomps and lightning strikes over more melee attacks.

I agree it doesn’t feel very Horde-like but I can get past it a bit since we are getting Earthen now. I think Mountain King is a better name. A king of the mountain might not be a literal king either but a bandit king on the mountaintops. Traditionally the Thanes dual wield, which I guess is why Fury got it. I’m not getting the impression it’s a popular tree.

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Slayer Fury Warrior


Generally I’m happy with how Slayer Fury plays at the moment, and I think there is a lot of fun to be had there. I think our class tree still doesn’t answer our utility issues, and our spec tree is going to be EXTREMELY static but both Slayer and Mountain Thane are looking to be enjoyable hero specs.


  • Specifically for Slayer Fury I have minimal issues with the tree
  • For all other specs/hero builds I would really like to see Thunderclap be baseline
  • The tree also doesn’t address any of our lack of group utility concerns
  • I really like the idea mentioned above of giving us some kind of mob displacement ability
  • Maybe warriors can lean into interrupts more also? Two charges of pummel? AoE interrupt?
  • Rallying Cry needs to be more powerful when not in a raid group
  • Thunderous Roar needs help to be a viable option for Fury Warriors that don’t want to play with Spear
  • Personally I really hate Spear, but it’s not a problem I guess as long as Roar is a viable alternative

Talents that could be removed or reduced to one point

  • Crushing Force (1 point)
  • Overwhelming Rage (1 point)
  • Seismic Reverb (removed)
  • Barbaric Training and Sidearm (removed)

There is too much throughput in our tree. There are reasonably interesting utility and utility focused bonuses to choose from, but not when they compete against damage. Also as mentioned above warrior group utility is still in a terrible spot.


Generally I like the idea here of Bloodthirst on cooldown and fill with things. Whether that’s Raging Blow or talented abilities.

  • Due to talent economy you still feel largely forced to take the talents for either Raging Blow or Bloodthirst and ignore the others.
  • This might be ok, but the talents aren’t very interesting and have minimal impact on the rotational gameplay and it’s simply a tuning question.
  • The only variety comes from your hero tree - maybe that’s ok?
  • I really hate Improved Whirlwind being in the talent tree since it is the baseline mechanic for the entire way Fury AoE works. This should be baseline, Meat Cleaver takes its spot and a new talent made to enhance AoE in a cool way should be made.
  • When you have to take whirlwind talents (mandatory on any aoe what so ever) it also removes the extremely limited choice that we do have in the trees. Those two talent points are almost all we got, and they aren’t optional to give us those choices if we have to AoE.
  • Could Bloodborne be updated to just buff all damage of those abilities instead of being limited to bleed? Would help Odyn’s Fury.
  • Odyn’s Fury desperately needs a buff to its damage regardless.
  • The Odyn Fury follow-up nodes are also very boring/weak compared to basically anything they compete with in the bottom part of the tree. I actually like Titanic Rage it’s just bad because OF damage is bad.
  • Unhinged is A+ IMO with cool/interesting interactions among the spec and hero talents.


Overall I’m a big fan of this tree. Bladestorm and Execute are my jam. My only real complaint here is the interaction of Sudden Death procs to consume Marked for Execution and the interaction with Unrelenting Onslaught.

  • The RNG of Slayer’s Dominance procs combined with the RNG of Sudden Death procs is really clunky.
  • You get back to back of both and then get draughts, and they don’t play nice with each other or in conjunction with Unrelenting Onslaught CDR.
  • Trying not to waste those procs and they always seem to proc right as Bladestorm is about to come up naturally, and it’s just a giant convoluted mess of trying to hit things and also not waste the bonuses you’re talented into.
  • I’m not entirely sure what the answer is here, but I feel there has to be a way for this all to flow together much better as opposed to juggling the RNG of multiple RNG procs needing to consume each other.

There is also currently a bug where cleaved sudden death executes will consume Marked for Execution on the additional targets, but not grant you the bonuses of Unrelenting Onslaught.


Arms Feedback


Before thinking about hero talents, there are three issues with Arms imo, from a gameplay perspective.


The base cooldown of Cleave being 3 seconds effectively locks us in to pressing Cleave every other global, then using primarily Overpower with a few TClaps sprinkled in between Cleave casts. This has a few negative implications:
  1. It’s very boring. There is little decision making going on, rage economy is still high enough that I never run out of rage while constantly spamming Cleave every other global, and the choice basically boils down to “Is Rend about to fall off? Yes: TClap; No: Overpower”. Tactician procs are still plentiful enough that, in my experience, I almost never ran into a situation where Rend was freshly applied and I didn’t have the OP charge to spend in between Cleaves.
  2. It makes Martial Prowess effecting Cleave feel pointless. There is no realistic scenario where you will ever use Cleave with 2x MP stacks since there is only one global in between each cast, and the vast majority of your Cleaves are buffed by exactly one Overpower. At that point, it’s not a buff, it’s the new baseline.

The biggest change I would like to see in this regard is to change Cleave to a 4.5 second hasted CD, and the damage buffed to compensate if needed. This would directly address both points:

  1. With 2 GCDs in between each Cleave, there is more room to spend rage on a different filler (e.g., WW), and make an actual decision with your globals. It would still be very simple, but not quite as bad as it is now.

  2. Similarly, with 2 GCDs in between casts, you would have the occasional double-buffed Cleave, and the MP buff makes more sense as there would actually be variance there.


This is mostly just a tuning problem, but: Multiple talents buffing OP and OP still ends up feeling kinda bad to me, unless you are playing Colossus with its massive buff to OP damage. Dreadnaught in particular feels awful.

I would really love to see the damage profile of this ability shift more towards the direction of Cataclysm Arms, where OP is a significant hard-hitter on its own and can compete with MS in terms of overall damage. It’s a minor gripe, but I don’t personally love my ST damage profile consisting of ~40% or more MS damage.


I really do hate Exhilarating Blows and Battlelord, and think they have no place on the tree or in Arms’ gameplay loop, particularly in combination with Martial Prowess. Mortal Strike (and to a lesser extent, Cleave) having it’s CD reset can never feel as good as it should when you know that each time you reset it and use it immediately, it could be doing 30-60% more damage. It is irrelevant that it is numerically correct to just slam the button off CD regardless of MP stacks, it still feels bad.

This is much less of an issue for Battlelord than it is EB, since BL will always result in the MS having at least 1 buff, but I still dislike BL as I fundamentally believe MS CD should not be something that can be reset, period. If we insist on having MS resets be possible, then I would at least strongly prefer that MP be removed, so each reset MS is full value. That would make something like hitting 3 EB resets in a row feel actually good, whereas now it feels very meh.


Slayer has two notable issues, from a gameplay perspective:

  1. From the dungeons I’ve done, I rarely got enough SD procs to get a +3 stacked Bladestorm from this hero talent tree. I assume that the SD proc rate buff is just NYI or bugged, so not going to worry about it too much, but still want to note it. Bladestorm coming off CD and still only having 2 stacks despite having good uptime doesn’t feel great.

  2. I really do not like Reap the Storm being tied to Mortal Strike. This is exacerbated by the above-mentioned issues with Cleave, there is simply no room in the rotation to press MS and fish for procs. If it does end up being numerically correct to press MS on CD at higher target counts in between Cleaves to fish for procs, I would argue that just feels unintuitive and bad to do, even if it is the intended behavior. I don’t have a good idea for a solution for this outside of just moving it back to proccing off of Overpower, but tied to MS it is almost non-functional imo.

Outside of these two issues, I really like the gameplay loop of Slayer, and Bladestorm being such a huge impactful cooldown feels phenomenal.


Similar to Slayer, Colossus has two issues for me from a gameplay perspective.

  1. It is very inconsistent in my testing whether or not CS with Anger Management and Demolish would come off CD at the same time. There are many times where they do come up around the same time, and then there were other times where they were desynced by 15+ seconds. Using either ability without the other will feel bad, and holding either ability for the other will similarly feel bad, so I would like to see their cooldown reduction normalized between the two so they are consistently available at the same time.

  2. It would be nice if the buff duration of Colossal Might was increased to 1 minute. At 30 seconds, there are many times where it would fall off while waiting for the tank to move to the next pull, and that is such a colossal (ha) damage loss that just feels terrible. This issue is exacerbated by players being new to the dungeons and tanks moving slow, but buffing the duration to 1 min would basically just remove this problem.

Other than these two minor gripes, Colossus Arms feels incredible and is super fun to play, Demolish is an awesome ability.


  1. Cleave cooldown is too short, making the AoE rotation feel restricted and boring.
  2. Overpower feels pretty bad even when taking multiple talents to buff it.
  3. The combination of Martial Prowess with effects that reset MS cooldown feels bad, and one of these things should go. Either one would be fine on its own without the other.
  4. Slayer’s SD proc rate increase does not seem to be working.
  5. Reap the Storm being tied to MS feels very unintuitive and counter-productive to how the AoE currently functions.
  6. It is easy for CS and Demolish cooldowns to get desynced, which feels awful as you would surely not want to press either of these cooldowns without the other.
  7. It would be a nice QoL increase for the buff duration of Colossal Might to be increased to 1 min, to prevent annoying pain points of of the buff falling off right before the next pack.

TBH warriors need a rework. Nothing about the talent tree changes, or hero tree fixes the core issues with the class. Since the paladin rework I have been struggling to see any benefit to warrior over Pally (coming from a hardcore warrior main who has still refused to switch to pally and was holding out to see if TWW fixed anything) but they do everything we can, but better. They have way more useful abilities such as being able to actually help with afflicted, incorp, etc. They have a Brez, they have extended melee range, the have sac, freedom, ret aura, and have the same damage if not better than warrior. Also, their rotation and overall gameplay just feels are superior now. Fury warrior especially, feels uber bad with both hero talent trees, and I think its cause fury baseline is on life support.


Class Tree:

  • The Shockwave and Storm Bolt talents are both right in the middle of the tree, and seem mandatory to pick in order to get to talents below them. This both forces us to pick them when we don’t want to, and feel terrible for raids where they’re ineffective.
    On top of it having both feels both bloated and redundant.
    I suggest the following: 1. Making them a choice node with each other. 2. Moving them to the side where they could easily be picked but won’t be mandatory to get to other talents. 3. Making Rumbling Earth baseline for Shockwave (as it used to be) and increasing the stun duration on Storm Bolt to 6 seconds.

  • Champion’s Spear is a terrible and disliked ability that’s a leftover from Shadowlands. During SL it was an okay AoE ability but since them has been massively nerfed (damage changed from arcane to physical with no compensation, Champion’s Might duration increase halved) and now it’s just an ability I don’t see myself ever wanting to pick.
    I suggest replacing it with another, better, ability. Some sort of Champion’s Banner ability that buffs the mastery of the warrior and 4 nearby allies seems like a good idea.

  • Armored to the Teeth has been moved from gating Avatar to gating Champion’s Spear. This is problematic as Armored is a very useful talent whereas the spear is an ability most won’t pick.
    Likewise Thunderous Roar is now preceded by Cruel Strikes rather than Wild Strikes.

I suggest moving Wild Strikes to be above Thunderous Roar, Cruel Strikes to be above Champion’s Spear and Armored to the Teeth to be where Wild Strikes used to be.

  • Seismic Reverberation is very weak for Fury without the Mountain Thane hero tree (essentially a 10% damage increase to a low damage ability when it hits 3 or more targets). However the other talent in that choice node is also very weak. When playing Slayer there’s just no good talent to pick and yet the player might want to access the talents below.

Fury Warrior:

  • TWW has nerfed the overall rage economy of Fury warrior and it’s quite noticeable in game. The rotation just doesn’t feel as smooth and fun as it used to. I urge you to reconsider the nerfs to rage gain for Fury.

  • Back during DF beta, due to the increase in Fury’s rage generation, you greatly nerfed the damage of Rampage. Now that you have cut Fury’s rage generation again, please consider rolling back that nerf.

  • In order to take the Massacre talent, you need to take either Ashen Juggernaut or Slaughtering Strikes. Yet Ashen Juggernaut is pretty much a dead talent without having Massacre (and Sudden Death) first.
    Please switch the positions of Massacre and Ashen Juggernaut.

  • Tenderize is very very weak for a capstone talent. I suggest making the Slaughtering Strikes part be a part of Slaughtering Strikes (i.e if you have Slaughtering Strikes you don’t need Tenderize for Onslaught to generate 3 stacks), and instead make it so Tenderize causes Onslaught to increase the damage you deal to targets hit by 8% for 6 seconds. This will create a powerful and useful capstone effect.

  • Odyn’s Fury is just too weak. It used to deal magic damage but like Champion’s Spear had its’ damage type changed without compensation. On top of that its’ cooldown is too long. I suggest buffing OF by ~50% and reducing the CD to 30 seconds.

  • Titanic Rage is not a good capstone talent. It buffs the damage of a weak ability by only a little. I suggest increasing the damage bonus to 20% or at least 15%. And again it’s a useless talent with OF’s current tuning.

  • Bladestorm. I remember reading that you’re giving Fury its’ own version of Bladestorm, yet we still have the 1.5 minute one. Is it supposed to have a 1.5 minute CD or a 1 minute CD?
    Having to sync it with Recklessness seems problematic as you won’t always want to use Bladestorm when using Recklessness (such as in single target situations).
    Additionally the CD reduction from the Slayer tree will fully de-synch the 2 abilities.

  • Unhinged casts Mortal Strike for Arms and only Bloodthirst for Fury, is the power disparity intentional?


  • Slayer’s Dominance: Since there is a fixed proc rate instead of a proc chance, the amount of Slayer’s Strikes that occur in a multi-target situation is the same as in a single target one. Is it meant to not scale with the number of targets?
    Additionally is the Slayer’s Strike meant to also proc against cleaved targets or just the main target?

Mountain Thane:

  • The Storm Bolts/Storm’s Shield choice node is bad. Storm’s Shield is a very niche talent that would probably only be used in specific situations by Protection warriors, yet with the cooldown increase to Storm Bolt, the alternative isn’t necessarily useful either.
    Playing Fury warrior I just find no interest in having either of these talents.

I’m sorry but I really have to disagree with removing Barbaric Training and Seismic Reverberation. These talents are very useful for Fury’s little AoE, especially when playing Mountain Thane.

I do agree SR is a bit too weak without Mountain Thane but it’s still an overall good talent.


That’s the exact problem though. Yes they help damage, and therefore can almost never not be taken. If they are removed Blizzard can address the tuning baseline while giving us better choices inside our class tree.


I see your point.
Blizzard could make Barbaric Training a baseline passive.

Then you always take Sidearm instead.

Almost every Warrior talent is offensive or defensive in nature… because that’s pretty much all Warriors do. They don’t have a whole bunch of auxiliary effects to enhance the way a Paladin or Shaman does, and maybe some people feel like they should, but that would require some massive changes that are already outside the scope of this test period.

As it stands, selecting talents as a Warrior is a matter of opportunity cost, and not every talent necessarily needs to provide the same value for every build/spec (as long as it’s not getting in the way of other choices). I won’t pretend its always the most exciting thing in the world, but “make it baseline” is almost never the best answer.

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Can you guys make our hero spells and procs more flashy like our artifact weapons spells used to be? Right now it doesnt look hero or special or anything and it is like that for most classes.

Making it baseline is better than removing it completely, which is what I was objecting to.

Also the choice node for Seismic Reverberation/Concussive Blows should always have something for every build as it locks Armored to the Teeth and Champion’s Spear behind it.

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