Feedback: Warriors

Please use this thread to post feedback on the Warrior class, once you’ve tested it in the Dragonflight Alpha.

Thank you!

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We feel that all three Warrior specializations have excellent foundations for both their class fantasies and with regard to how fun their rotations are to play. So, our goal for the class in Dragonflight has been to evolve and enhance each specialization rather than to revolutionize or rebuild them.

We’re trying to strike a balance between existing things you know and love, exciting new talents and greatest hits from that past such as Blood and Thunder, Odyn’s Fury and Cold Steel, Hot Blood.

With this in mind, players should expect core rotations to feel comfortable and familiar but with a much wider variety of choice in terms of which elements they can enhance. In addition to this we’re also attempting to build in support to enable players to experiment with more varied playstyles if they desire, such as the Arms being able to heavily investing in damage over time abilities and Fury being able to double down on auto attacks.

We are excited for Warriors to be joining the Dragonflight Alpha look forward to hearing your feedback!

Known Issues

  • Some talent overrides are not working correctly, and you are able to use both spells (E.G. Annihilator doesn’t replace Raging Blow).
  • Some talent dependencies and combinations are not working correctly. (E.G. Combining Titanic Throw and Improved Heroic Throw doesn’t apply Deep Wounds to all affected targets)
  • Stances are currently a work in progress and undergoing internal iteration. A large part of their goal is to guide the fantasy of each spec but mechanically, the goal for these is not to encourage frantic stance shifting. But rather switching at certain major points in an encounter, such as For DPS Warriors during a painful AOE damage phase, or for Protection Warrior that are off tanking they may temporarily switch to deal more damage.
  • A handful of talents will be getting a choice-node option in a later Alpha build (E.G. Rumbling Earth and Thunderous Aftershocks).
  • Fury has some issues with Execute related to the new player experience that causes you to have both the Arms and Fury versions of Execute (players should use the variant that attacks with both Weapons).
  • Multi Rank nodes are not always awarding full values.
  • We’re still working on the background art for the Fury talent tree, it will be added in a later build.
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Just looking at the arms tree, is there anywhere we could get Crushing Assault back from BFA? This would help make slam a little more exciting instead of just being a rage dump.

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I’m not warrior main so I don’t know the numerical ins and outs nor the flow of the new kit but the prot warrior tree looks really cool! I’m very excited to annoy my friends till they let me tank and try it out haha :smiley:

At first glance the basic version of Colossus Smash doesn’t look appealing with a 90s CD.

Edit: That being said, it is probably due do being used to getting a reliable boost to your sustained output from the debuff.

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Fury can build a tree without taking Rampage at all—any chance Rampage could be moved?

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Either I’m blind, or I can’t find Bladestorm to use as a talent option as Fury. That’s one of my favorite abilities. Did I overlook something or is it only available to Arms now?

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Some sort of bug is making my revenge cast several times per second on the target dummies. It’s pretty busted lol.

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Don’t think that only arms having dps raid cd is healthy for fury.

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Prot Warrior main forever.

“Spiked Shield” scaling with attack power instead of being a flat amount is fantastic. The entire prot tree just works and fits so well. “Never Surrender’s” rework is so synergistic it’s fantastic. I already feel like the haste/mastery or haste/crit stat choices are gonna be great. “Shield Charge” coming back and “Bitter Immunity” are 10/10.

“Battle-Scared Veteran” is what really caught my attention. Warriors getting tankier as they are dying has been something I’ve prayed for since Garrosh came out in HotS. “Spell Block” is game changing for warriors and really closes their gap in spell damage survivability without just making it a passive like Holy Shield.

For me, the prot warrior tree is a 9/10. I would change the following:

  • Swap the positioning of “Fueled by Violence” and “Bolster” You have to take Last Stand to get to this side of the tree anyway and if Bolster only stays as a 10 sec CDR for LS, it’ll just feel a lot better for those who don’t want to take “Fueled by Violence.” Additionally, not taking “Bolster” and “Spiked Shield” is counter intuitive to maximize your damage.

  • Remove the minimum range of “Shield Charge.” “Shield Charge” is an excellent prot alternative to “Storm Bolt” as a single target stun and aoe damage ability. Using it in packs of mobs that last a while, i.e. during Fortify weeks, “Shield Charge” is gonna have major value as a end-tree talent being able to be used without having to run/leap away then use it.

  • Get rid of “Devastate” and put “Devastator” in its place. Change the wording of “Strategist” to include auto-attacks. There isn’t a warrior alive who enjoys using “Devastate” ever since Sunder Armor got removed. “Devastate” is literally an auto attack that requires a button press and a GCD.

  • Have “Improved Heroic Throw” be the old Gag Order, causing it to silence for a few secs and put the Deep Wounds on “Titanic Throw.”

  • Put “Side Arm” on the Class tree instead of the Fury Tree.

Questions:

  • Is “Brutal Vitality” also affected by Bleeds?
  • Does “Outburst” apply the ignore pain before the damage dealt, thus using the massive increased damage dealt to feed into the IP from using "Brutal Vitality?
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Die By the Sword being available to all 3 specs is a bit nuts. Prot gets an extra ‘oh crap’ button, Fury becomes even tankier than it already was, and Arms gets nothing new in return for sharing with the class.

The return of Blood and Thunder is excellent, but Thunderclap itself is rather underwhelming as Arms. Even if you’re a madman and take the Avatar+TC talent node (50% more damage), it’s barely a better button to push over Whirlwind, and instead it’s relegated to being a button you press every 12 seconds to refresh Rend.
I’d like to see Rend just straight up integrated into Thunderclap if both talents are chosen, for the sake of bar compression, but it’s a minor nitpick.

The new Fury tree feels quite fun. There’s a real identity to SMF now (autoattacks galore) while TG remains familiar with the RB proc 'n spam.
Odyn’s Fury feels way more thematic as an (uncapped!!) AoE button than Bladestorm, which has always been more of an Arms thing.
It’s strange to me that Rampage doesn’t have the Enrage effect baked in, and instead you need to grab a 2nd talent to make it do so.

The new Arms tree is quite something to unpack!

The center of the Arms tree seems like it should be AoE-centric, but it has Punishment (Condemn) and Bloodsurge both locked behind Sweeping Strikes. For pure single-target fights, being able to opt out of SS would be a nice trick.

Storm of Swords feels like it should be a choice node with Fervor of Battle, as they are rather mutually exclusive. Storm of Swords itself is a really fun ability and lends to some great setups with Collateral Damage and Merciless Bonegrinder.

The bleed-centric side of the tree feels like it’s lacking interaction with multiple bleeding foes. Bloodsurge should probably be over here instead of the middle, otherwise it exists only for Dreadnaught.

Skull Banner is back! The banner being a ground-targeted ability feels like a vestige from MoP. Why not have it follow you around like the Necrolord banner?

Single target is quite fun to play with Battlelord/Exhil Blows procs on top Sudden Death+Exploiter procs, although it’s REALLY hard to not be rage capped all of the time. There’s no downtime from spamming free abilities, and a lot of rage going to waste.

The Prot tree is really good. You actually want everything, but can’t have everything, so you have to tailor it to your preferences. Extra tools to deal with spells (AoE Pummel! Super Block!) is really great, although I still miss Gag Order (Silence on Heroic Throw).
My only real feedback for Prot is that Devastator should be baseline. Devastate has always been a horrible button to push.

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“My only real feedback for Prot is that Devastator should be baseline. Devastate has always been a horrible button to push.”

Preach.

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Poking at the Arms Tree today first and I have been pleasantly surprised to find that I can actually make a Sword and Board DPS build. I have no idea how competitive it will be; but happy that this archetype has not been kicked to the curb.

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I only played a few dungeons today as prot and it’s damage is certainly tuned to an absurd point after looking at logs. Unsure if it’s a bug or not but the sheer output of protection was able to double or triple the damage of many dps in both AoE and Single Target.

Ignoring the tuning problems; The tree, play style, survivability, and total number of skills returned to the spec all felt amazing. I stopped playing warrior almost entirely in Shadowlands, and had stopped enjoying it much in BFA after maining it since BC, and this new iteration makes me fall in love with the spec all over again.

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Now that this new talent system is being tested, we have some brief thoughts for you all.

Beyond the mid-point of the class tree, we feel that the left side of the tree is more finalized than the right. We’re working on making these feel equally appealing.

We’re also working on expanding pathing where we can. Due to the way dependencies work, it isn’t always possible to open up choices. Generally speaking, we don’t want to put players in a situation where they choose talents that affect abilities they don’t have.

We’ve seen some strong feelings – both positive and negative – regarding Signet of Ancient Kings. We’re aware of this and iterating on adjustments to it.

Our known issues include:

  • The Protection specialization doesn’t suffer a penalty while using Defensive Stance. This will be updated in a future test build.
  • Battle-Scared Veteran displays the wrong information. It should be: A damage reduction value of 75% and a duration of 8 seconds.
  • Berserker Shout’s tooltip isn’t displaying correctly. This ability replaces Berserker Rage and mimics its functionality. It also breaks Fear for party members within 15 yards.
  • Weapon Specialization Talents are damage buffs; they do not enable new functionality. For example, Dual Wield specialization should not allow Arms or Protection Warriors to dual wield. We’ll likely change some names to avoid future confusion.
  • Fatality is not intended to Crit. Its damage will be balanced around this.

Thank you for the feedback!

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Disclaimer: Not a Warrior main, and especially not a Prot Warrior main.

Ignoring tuning (because Prot is very overtuned at the moment), I’m just gonna come out and say it: the Prot Warrior tree is the best Talent tree we’ve ever gotten, in my opinion. It recaptures so much of what made BFA Protection such a beloved spec in M+ and accomplishes so much more, and it even provides Prot with some meaningful ways to contribute large amounts of important damage at the cost of survivability should it opt to go for a much more Execute-centric build. I’m personally a huge fan of options that allow players to forego healing/survivability for a bit more damage since it makes these roles a lot less stagnant when running M+ and raids more comfortably and at higher gear levels. Plus, a lot of the options Prot gets are returning classics, either in part or as a whole: Champion’s Bulwark plays like Reprisal without having to Intervene other players, Bolster is back and in good form, you have Spear of Bastion, Avatar+Unstoppable Force+Thunderlord ft. Anger Management is here, we have The Wall with little opportunity cost, you can take BSC+Booming Voice VERY early on… and you even have new stuff like a Cheat Death and Spell Block to patch up some of Prot’s other weaknesses.

Prot has so much amazing build diversity due to the sheer amount of freedom the amount of 1-point nodes grants players, and as such this makes the spec’s playstyle incredibly expressive. You can go for a high-ST Execute build, you can go for a Shield Slam/Thunder Clap-heavy AoE build, you can go for a much tankier build with Bolster and Ignore Pain/block talents, you can run a Ravager build… realistically, you can do almost anything and it’ll play extremely fluidly. This tree has absolutely nailed how Prot Warrior should feel to play, and having so many options is the exact kind of stuff I do want to see from a spec tree.

That said, I do wish Devastate was axed entirely and Devastator replaced it for good; Prot is extremely high APM, even while taking Devastator, and it provides very nice, very frequent variance in how the spec can play.

Overall, though? I personally believed at the time I posted some initial feedback that the Enhancement Shaman spec tree was a slightly-flawed masterpiece of a tree and that it would be the gold standard for future talent trees going forward; I still stand by this. But if that’s the gold standard, Prot’s spec tree is the diamond standard. This spec feels fantastic to play in many respects and I’m actually excited to keep playing it some more now, once a healer decides to queue up for some Heroics on Alpha. It’s just that good.

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Firstly, thank you for this Protection tree! I don’t know if its strong enough for Mythic raid representation to recover, but its certainly strong enough to fend off demands to main swap.

Spear of Bastion was the best choice to carry forward from the covenant ability system, but I wonder if you could fit in the effusive anima accelerator talent from the Mikanikos Soulbind. Specifically the cd reduction per target hit (4 seconds per enemy to a maximum of 20 seconds). This is what makes spear so fun for m+.

To me, it would need to compete with/replace ravager, giving you essentially the option of spear every m+ trash pull, or spear + ravager every other pull.

Again thanks! Excited for the gameplay to come in DF!

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The most frustrating thing for me, as a player who has played fury warrior since the original Open Beta, is the complete gutting of Execution as our class DEFINING damage ability.

I don’t know in what world it made sense to take our most epic rage spender, responsible for so many “Oh man here come the Warriors” at 20% moments, and turn it into a rage builder.

Bloodthirst could’ve been given a second charge, or furious strikes could’ve been turned into the builder, but taking Execute and ignoring it’s historical significance in the very IDENTITY of what makes a Warrior a Warrior feels like the person who did it never played Warrior before.

I’d like the dev team to take a real pass at Execute, returning it to it’s former glory as the THING that made Warriors just rocket up the meters! Give every class their unique time to shine.

There are many ways to do this with execute, including retrofitting some of the options on the talent tree and replacing with Execute. Dragon Roar for example comes to mind, could be a talent that makes Execute stronger sub 20%, or makes it have a 30second cooldown for huge damage sub 20% with an AOE component.

I’d just like more creativity and understanding from the Warrior devs about the importance of Execute, and a mindset that doesn’t relegate it to being an orange colored bloodthirst on my bars.

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Hello!

I 'm loving the current direction of both warrior dps specs, having played a warrior as my main in expansions past. Some of my issues with Arm’s smoothness has been resolved with some of the new talents. Being able to use Blood and Thunder on fury in conjunction with Odyn’s Fury and Thunderous Roar is really flavorable and something that feels very new with a bit more set up required than what we would usually see in the past.

The perceived need to spec into raging blow and damage cooldowns if you want to go Titans Grip, and Frenzied Flurry’s enrage on crits being exclusive to one-handed weapons, feels a little restrictive. I’ve heard some feedback from friends that they would love to be able to pick that up and still go TG instead of picking up something like Onslaught. The defined flavors do make sense though.

I would also like to use this opportunity to suggest a new ability for Arms; something I’ve wanted to see since Legion. Ever since fighting Aggramar, I’ve wanted an ability inspired by Taeshalach Technique. I imagine it would function similarly to New Moon for druids, and you could have the different phases of the ability provide things like an AoE rend, deep wounds, and a warbreaker or AoE execute finisher for example. It could work as a counter to Bladestorm as a less bursty, sustained and lower cooldown damage option. It would also allow for a bit more dynamic rotation, and function as another rage spender, as I am currently capping on rage very frequently as Arms at the moment. Aggramar is one of the few bosses that are an example of “big guy with big weapon” that Arms could really draw on to define their fantasy and flavor in the game.

I can’t wait to see how things develop, keep up the good work!

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I’m just a sometimes warrior alt but my initial impression of all three specs is extremely positive. Talents have directly allowed me to fix many issues that bummed me out and pushed me off the class before:

  • I can play fury warrior at much less APM before. This game already hurts my hands, so having a more auto-attack focused build without the crazy haste and button mashing is a game changer. This spec instantly went from meh to fun for me.
  • Arms I was able to make a build that’s not just eternally rage-capped mashing short cooldowns all the time. I like being able to sideline overpower and instead focus on huge mortal strike and whirlwind hits. There are also some cool overpower buffing abilities in there too.
  • Prot seems neat but I haven’t had opportunity to tank yet, bit harder to get a group rn. I made a build that goes all-in on shield slam generating tons of rage and block value and such.

I think the common through-line in all these trees is that I’m able to pick a few abilities that I really like and just really buff the hell out of them. I like Shield Slam, it’s my favorite, so I make a build focused on that. Mortal Strike is cool, don’t like Overpower so much, so hey. I don’t know how exactly this will hold up to balance tuning… but my initial impression is extremely positive. Most positive of any class so far.

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