FEEDBACK: Warrior Class Changes

Can fury get some version of Cold Steel, Hot Blood as a passive in Shadowlands? Please? It doesn’t need to be as strong as the BFA version (nor should it be), but it would be nice if fury had a reason to want Critical Strike on their gear. Getting big crits for big damage feels VERY fury.

17 Likes

Feedback on the Executioner’s Precision legendary - I noticed that Sweeping Strikes does not spread the Executioner’s Precision legendary debuff

I’m unsure if this is an oversight or intended design.

(Note - This is feedback from the pre-character wipe when we were able to craft legendaries immediately - I only just got the ability to post in these forums)

4 Likes

FEEDBACK ON ARMS:

TL:DR Spec is slow, and clunky and needs another facelift (revert to legion :slight_smile: )

Arms rage generation currently is in a very sore spot, it generates soo little rage that if you play a covenant such as condemn which doesn’t innately improve rage generation the spec feels very slow. To the point in keys, you feel like you can’t hit buttons between the 2 execute thresholds on trash, and some bossfights depending on the group.

I would love to see a lucid dream style passive, giving additional rage generation for the spec passively, or opportunity strikes from legion, or older AM which passively generated rage.

The arms mastery currently does not work on the first hit, i dont know if this is intentional, but with the current pacing of arms, missing 1/3-1/4 mortal strikes with your mastery will stack up very fast if arms is mastery stacked. It also ruins the fantasy of a hard hitting juggernaut, which kinda synonymous with big target swaps in raid encounters.

I would also like to see stormbolt being made into a class wide ability instead of a talent (replace the talent with shockwave), it feels bad having to talent into stormbolt to lose an innate damage gain ( losing double time), just to have control for M+.

Alot of the talent rows remain the same from BFA so ill only go over the new changes

The new Collateral damage (40 row):

While changing collateral to not be an instantlock on any raidboss fight where there are 2-3 targets, im alittle underwhelmed by the direction of the change, on sustained aoe cleave looks stronger and on burst warbreaker does. Im not sure where this really is meant to fit, it just seems weak (and honestly i think the old design of the talent was pretty good)

The new Cleave (40 row):

I like the change letting cleave benefit from overpower stacks, it gives the aoe rotation more interactions. I would still like an indicator for when cleave hits 3 targets (like it did in legion with the artifact weapon). Cleave also replacing sweeping strikes but only doing a 25% more damage than whirlwind does baseline, also leads me to believe with dreadnaught synergising with sweeping, you might not neccessarily take this talent as a result.

New deadlycalm (45 row):

The passive is definitely nice to add, but it helps fix an innate problem with arms, however it could just be a dps loss in SL compared to in for the kill.

New Dreadnaught (50 row):

The changes to this talent from the BFA counterpart are really good, it makes overpower not feel terrible to press and 2 charge system with tactician helps add alot more flow to the spec. Huge fan of whats been done to the talent.

Fury:

Fury as a whole feels pretty good, the new talent changes feel like great additions. I would like to say that onslaught but alongside raging blow kinda shows how lackluster raging blow is in terms of rage generation (onslaught hits both hard and generate significantly more rage). Maybe consider turning raging blow into onslaught talented and decrease cd duration slightly.

Prot:

This spec is broken garbage spec compared to the BFA counterpart. The talent reworks has only made the spec feel alot worse and removing fun synergies the spec had. The booming voice + AM synergy helped add alot of flow. Into the fray haste steroid helped give a haste reliant spec good stats early into an expansion.

The fact that thunderclap and revenge does reduced damage to secondaries target, while bloodboil, Shield of the righteous and other tank abilities do not is dumb. Threat feels hard on prot warrior as a result, especially in bigger pulls where non-target capped classes are doing more damage relative to you.

The unstoppable force should honestly be made baseline, avatar doesn’t really feel much or fun without the rotational implication of more tclaps.

Some good changes: Heavy Repercussions finally synergise with bolster. Indomitable actually has an impact, making it not completely dead.

13 Likes

Like others have said about Protection. It just feels bad now with the talent changes and haste levels. The damage output is low on packs which makes threat difficult unless you take ravager.

All in all the spec lost most of the fun and enjoy parts and is left with many of the annoying and cumbersome ones. It’s just not fun to play right now, especially compared with Paladin or Monk.

Edit - One of the biggest issues now with the low haste levels is shield block uptime. It is pretty low right now even with Bolster and when it’s down you just get trucked in tougher content.

7 Likes

I don’t know why they have such a hate on for prot’s ability to keep their active mitigation up. 6 second duration with a 16 second CD is crazy. If for even a second they are then going to treat ignore pain as a filler between then it should probably absorb more than 10% of our health. It was this way at the start of BFA too and is one of the things that made the class so horrible for the start of the expansion. If I were the one designing it I would probably make it so that Shield Block had a 9 second CD and make it so the CD isn’t changed by haste. That way you can use Shield block most of the time and when you can’t you can then spend pooled rage to lower damage with ignore pain. This would of course mean that ignore pain would also need to have its absorb value adjusted a fair bit too.

I am sad to say that it is looking like another expansion that I go to DK. Prior to BFA I had tanked on my warrior since TBC and only stopped when my DK was a better tank than my warrior when he was 30 ilvls lower going into mythic Uldir. I was really hopeful that some major changes would come to the class or that we would return to a more Legion style warrior but here we are with huge gaps in our active mitigation and piddly ignore pains again.

7 Likes

Protection Warriors will see a few updates in this week’s build. First, a number of talents have been moved around in the tree. After seeing how the layout is playing on Beta, and reading your feedback, we think this updated tree will create more competitive choices in multiple rows.

15 – War Machine, Punish, Devastator
25 – Unchanged
30 – Best Served Cold, Booming Voice , Dragon Roar
35 – Unchanged
40 – Never Surrender, Indomitable, Impending Victory
45 – Into the Fray, Unstoppable Force, Ravager
50 – Anger Management, Heavy Repercussions, Bolster

Thunder Clap and Revenge will now begin dealing reduced damage if they strike more than 5 targets, instead of when they strike more than 1 target. The initial changes to these abilities’ damage has had an outsized effect on threat gameplay for Protection, particularly in dungeons. These changes should make the task of gaining threat on a standard pack of enemies feel closer to the live game, while still making fighting large groups of enemies more of a challenge.

There are two accompanying, smaller tuning changes as well. Tuning is ongoing, but these changes were worked in alongside with the talent rearrangement.

  • Devastate’s damage increased by 50%.
  • Dragon Roar generates 20 Rage for Protection (was 10 Rage). It still generates 10 Rage for Fury.

Thanks for your continued playtesting and feedback!

10 Likes

So it won’t feel like skittish is up all the time anymore? :smiley:

8 Likes

Talent changes aren’t bad, but still have the issues with low uptime on shield block and IP not being a great alternative.

8 Likes

Can we bring conqueror’s banner back to the drawing board? I think at the very least there is a lot going on with the ability, especially in actually getting use out of it. For example, using it while questing often saw the 2min buff for building glory run out while completing quests/NPCs doing things, etc.

How much of this skill’s “budget” comes from one needing to stand in the circle and build up glory stacks to determine length? Can we see this as a simple cool-down, and if so would the effects need to be changed?

If you want to maintain the AoE buff, making it an aura around the casting warrior would be a lot more fun to play with. It may look tacky but it isn’t terribly fun being tied to a location for 30 seconds.

6 Likes

Prot
The new talent tree is WAY better than the last one, the only thing I think we lost is the sinergy between Heavy Rep and Bolster.
I think a fury version of execute would be better for prot because:
1.- It will give us rage so we get our defenses up instead of making us give up defensives for dps
2.- It will be a weaker hit and with cd, this will help us to not steal aggro to our 2nd tank in Raid
3.- Venthyr condemn will feel less of a dead button as prot

ARMS
Please revert Cleave replacing Sweeping Strikes and make Sweeping Strikes do some aoe dmg when pressed.

10 Likes

ARMS:
Lots of feedback about how it feels glacially slow, and while I agree, I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing if the payoff is worth it. Unfortunately, that simply isn’t the case right now. Luckily, I think the moment to moment gameplay of Arms could significantly benefit from a tuning pass, mostly involving a large buff to Mortal Strike damage.

Lots of people fell in love with the Legion gameplay of Arms, involving massive single hits (thanks to stacking buffs like Shattered Defenses and Executioner’s Precision, and the infamous Focused Rage), but with Mortal Strike’s current tuning that feeling just isn’t present. Retribution Paladin’s Templar’s Verdict, or post-build 2h Frost Obliterates are much closer to what people are yearning for when it comes to Mortal Strike damage.

I think if the base Mortal Strike was tuned much higher (or perhaps an Armor Penetratoin passive attached to Overpower buff stacks?), so that it felt like the downtime in gameplay was worth it, people would be much more receptive to the slower playstyle.

17 Likes

I started a Fury warrior with BoF gear. I could see the benefit of the Coven I chose, however just starting normal game play I died immediately twice within a short period. My main warrior on Bof is so OP that he can taike on nearly anything. I have always hated when blizzard makes your toon literally helpless at the start of any new expansion, I understand the reasons why, but getting killed that quickly, doesn’t make me want to play more,

I did not like the whole action bar lighting up thing either. I deleted the trial character and logged off. I know many of you will say, “oh your not giving it a fair chance” or maybe “you must not be a very good player”. Trolls aside, the game play just wasn’t very fun. So I will not be playing the expansion any further.

2 Likes

We need a baseline way to spread DW in aoe outside of our major CD; cleave needs to be spec ability

You guys had some interesting ideas for that tier; CD brings back memories of test of might and the earlier version of cleave had a unique mechanic in requiring a WW to cast.

With a baseline cleave we could see the WW damage buff of collateral damage shifted to a talent that affects cleave instead.

Right now it is just a problematic row. We give up sweeping strikes in order to gain a way of spreading our mastery, and CD buffing WW is just a head scratcher.

Beyond the talent tree, Focused rage would spice up the playstyle of arms nicely and give it a unique way of managing and spending a resource that is already generated and spent in a way far different than most resources.

7 Likes

Continuing about cleave, I think this being a problematic talent is most shown in that, when picking it, MS begins to lose its appeal in situations where we can spread our mastery with cleave, and we begin sitting on it instead of casting our most iconic ability.

this leads to awkwardness when so many legendary effects and conduits effect mortal strike, while cleave consuming OP stacks is the game telling you to ignore it.

I propose, if you don’t simply just give us cleave baseline, that instead Mortal Strike be given cleave-like properties, perhaps after striking enough targets with an aoe ability, so these two buttons don’t butt heads.

If it is designed to simply replace MS in aoe cases, I think a more lean solution would be to grant MS some form of frontal AoE. This solution also allows legendarys that affect MS to continue affecting the rotation when more targets are involved.

If cleave is to remain a different button, bringing it baseline and having a talent that boosted WW damage if X targets are struck would be an option on that row as well, and it moves the WW damage buff away from collateral damage.

Sweeping strike doesn’t need to be off the GCD, it needs to be a passive talent on that row instead.

It isn’t very offensive on the GCD, but it feels like a missed opportunity to give what has been the two target cleave spec some much needed flavor; please consider making it a passive effect again.

10 Likes

I’ve been trying out the template tanks (with soul bind, abilities, conduits, and 1 legendary each, to be fair).

Warriors are crazy squishy. Tanking a +10 Tirna Scithe felt like tanking a 18-20 on live right now. Compared to my paladin, who could pull with impunity even when the healer was running back, it felt awful. Druids felt ok, but had lower damage output (player necrolord, as night Fae is currently broken for me)
And thus lower threat. I felt good when I had frenzied regen available to fall back on, but a third spike in that time frame leaves me praying my healer is paying attention. And there will be spikes, druids are just too middle of the road. Needs more damage, or needs more endurance.

Paladins feel like tanks used to feel. Popping wings on a pull means I’m going to compete with any dps on the meters, and I can contribute to heals and blessings while I do it. I felt very durable, and I had a button for most situations. It feels great. Single target is kinda slow, but using the Avenger Shield reset legendary made it feel decent anyway. Highest damage tank I’ve tried so far.

DH and DK are going to be tomorrow’s projects, assuming I can find a work around for night fae quest. Monk will be last, since I play only monk healer in live, need to learn tanking on it first.

Warriors are THE tanking class, and right now they are probably my least favorite.

5 Likes

Concerned about the comment where our Arms mastery damage % increase isnt applied to the ability that causes deep wounds on the first hit. Can we get MS and the like just baseline affected by the mastery to begin with and not the bleed since it always applies the bleed anyways? I’m concerned about having to wait 5 seconds to burst anything, that’s really punishing to let drop in PvE, and makes targetting swapping pretty lame in PvP.

Kind of weird to have a bleed that can punish you for spreading it.

5 Likes

Having now split Charge and Intervene… Not having Double Time baked into the spec is a little boring. Choose between 2 ways of stunning or an extra charge…

4 Likes

Hello! This week’s build includes updates to many of the Warrior covenant abilities.

The Kyrian ability Spear of Bastion has had its damage decreased by about 45%, and now begins to deal reduced damage when striking more than 5 targets. This is similar to changes made to Thunder Clap and Revenge last week. Rather than a strict target cap and full damage, we felt it was important to retain Spear’s capabilities as a utility spell, while reigning in its damage contribution in high target-count scenarios.

The Night Fae ability Ancient Aftershock no longer applies a damage over time effect to enemies it hits. Instead:

  • The ground will continue to expel anima, dealing Nature damage to up to 5 enemies and generating Rage per enemy over 12 seconds. Every 3 seconds, targets are briefly knocked down.

These additional knockdowns are short, 0.5 second stuns that are not subject to diminishing returns. This change should give Ancient Aftershock a clearer identity as a long-duration disruption ability.

The Necrolord ability Conqueror’s Banner has been redesigned to address concerns about the amount of ramp-up required, and to make the group effect more broadly appealing.

  • Conqueror’s Banner – Instant, 3 minute cooldown: Plant the Conqueror’s Banner in the ground, granting 20% maximum health and 10% critical strike chance to you and 2 allies within 15 yards of the banner for 20 seconds. While active, spending 20 Rage (Arms, Protection) / 30 Rage (Fury) and killing enemies grants you Glory. Glory increases your critical strike damage by 1% per stack, up to 30%, for 30 seconds.

When the Warrior plants the banner, it will prefer to buff the two nearest players. This should make it easier for the Warrior to intentionally buff certain allies. As long as those players remain in the area, they’ll keep the buff, even if they don’t stay next to the banner. If one leaves, however, a new player near the banner will gain the buff.

  • The duration of the Glory effect refreshes whenever a new stack is earned, meaning it can last a total of 50 seconds from the time the banner is planted.

Additionally, Necrolord Warriors will learn a separate ability, Raise Banner, that allows them to wear the Conqueror’s Banner on their back at all times, similar to the version of the ability currently on Beta.


We’re looking forward to seeing how these changes play out once the new build is available, and hearing your feedback on them. Thank you!

2 Likes

Nooooo I really liked the Night Fae one before the change QQ, if its dropping something on the ground instead of applying a DoT it’s going to be useless for PvP, really hoping its not that, but that’s the way it reads. >.< Also if it works like earthquake for shamans I don’t think it’ll help us much with stopping casts in PvE either, can we get that one reverted? The Necrolords one seems like a great change.

The previous night fae one was a blast to use.

7 Likes

To increase the impact of “Mortal Wounds” and similar healing reduction effects in PvE situations, we’re doubling the magnitude of these effects against non-player enemies. The value of these effects will remain the same against players.

Warrior, Hunter, Monk

  • Mortal Wounds now reduces healing taken by 50% (25% against players).

Rogue

  • Wound Poison now reduces healing taken by 8% per stack (4% against players).

Warlock

  • Mortal Cleave/Legion Strike now reduces healing taken by 20% (10% against players).
3 Likes