FEEDBACK: Warrior Class Changes

Yeah… I dunno what the point of a 1.5 second stun is. Strange choice.

Maybe if the cooldown was incredibly short? Its 90s CD currently I think…

Certainly its not a short CD regardless. Thats the only compromise I could see, bring down the damage values (it hits hard) but lower the CD to something really obnoxious like 20-25 seconds. That creates different problems though with borderline micro-cc in PvP.

I don’t think theres a good answer here. I like the idea of doing something weird like maybe just a straight knockback? That would be certainly way more interesting and appealing as a player. Fits the long CD and cool visuals it already has.

This is something warriors have always felt good about. Those 1% pulls that are either a wipe or win simply because a warrior aoe taunted and kited for a few mroe seconds. This is something we literally asked for to come back out of nostolgia. Now sadly, in practice, the situation that can happen is far less likely with modern encounter design, but people still like having the button anyways, just in case.

8 Likes

so im not liking the new warrior changes for furry i think that it a bit to squishy it seems to not be how it was when the alpha started it is annoying and im kinda irritated

1 Like

Its because of that exact niche - its a high risk proposition. Having this as a DPS you can do something like, my tank has 99 necrotic stacks, challenging shout leap away for a reset. Think outside the box. Of all the ‘unpruned’ stuff this is probably the coolest one, the shield ability unpruning seems pointless for the DPS roles.

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Arms Warrior Mastery Change in the Current Build (34821), is exactly what I wanted to see with Arm’s Mastery! Less dot damage, more upfront damage with our attacks. Love this change!

Ravager chasing targets down also sounds hilarious, but could be problematic in PVE if hard CC is to be used. Probably will be fine though.

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Updated June 17

Hello to all of the seasoned soldiers, raging barbarians, and ironclad commanders of Azeroth! The newest Shadowlands Alpha build has a number of changes for Warriors, primarily focused on talents. We’re happy with the playstyle of each spec, and our philosophy for core abilities is generally “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. That said, there are a number of talents in each tree that could use some love. Some were underutilized in Battle for Azeroth (eg., Collateral Damage for Arms, and Inner Rage for Fury) and haven’t seen changes yet, or their first set of changes in Shadowlands haven’t quite hit the mark (Frothing Berserker for Fury). We’re looking forward to hearing your thoughts and feedback on the new and updated talents!

We’d like to call out that Arms’ Mastery and Deep Wounds have been redesigned. We heard your feedback that Deep Wounds’ overwhelming contribution to the damage breakdown felt unrewarding, and we agree. The new design will be a much smaller proportion of Arms’ direct damage, and should reward skillful target selection more than the previous version.

Single-Minded Fury has returned to Fury Warriors, with an updated design. This means that Fury Warriors can now receive one-handed weapons as item drops, though that may not be implemented in this build.

For Protection, a major topic of discussion has been the status of the Unstoppable Force build that exists in Battle for Azeroth. There are a lot of individual effects contributing to the build: talents, Azerite Traits, and Essences. The core components, however, are the Anger Management and Unstoppable Force talents, which can still be taken together in Shadowlands. In Battle for Azeroth, the multiplicative nature of the other effects is so powerful that Unstoppable Force overshadows any other setup or playstyle. We’d like to leave Protection in a more conservative position until the rest of their potential toolkit is known - additional Rage generation, cooldown reduction, etc. from Conduits and/or Legendaries may quickly have an outsized impact on the strength of Unstoppable Force. We hear your feedback that the playstyle is extremely fun! The intention isn’t to remove it completely, and we’ll be keeping a close eye on how things shape up in the next few months in order to revisit and tweak things before the game launches. Thank you for your patience and ongoing feedback - it’s extremely valuable to us.

Arms Warrior

  • Mastery: Deep Wounds has been redesigned. Now, Mortal Strike and Bladestorm inflict Deep Wounds, dealing Bleed damage over 12 seconds and increasing the damage the enemy takes from you.*
    • Developers’ notes: Removing Execute as a Deep Wounds applicator helps keep Mortal Strike relevant sub-20% health, without relying entirely on its damage-per-Rage in comparison to Execute.
  • Mastery rating will increase the “damage the enemy takes from you” effect, rather than Deep Wounds’ damage.
    • Developers’ notes: We feel it is important for Arms to have a Bleed in their core kit, but Deep Wounds’ direct contribution to damage dealt was overwhelming.
  • Execute damage increased by 20%.
  • Mortal Strike damage reduced by 5%.
  • Ravager has been redesigned to give it more identity, and differentiation from Bladestorm. Ravager again replaces Bladestorm when talented, and inflicts Deep Wounds (reverting previous Shadowlands changes). Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds, and duration increased to 12 seconds (still reduced by Haste). Ravager now chases nearby enemies.
  • Collateral Damage has been redesigned: When Sweeping Strikes ends, your next Whirlwind deals 25% increased damage for each ability used during Sweeping Strikes that damaged a second target.
    • Developers’ notes: Collateral Damage’s previous design turned out to be too niche. We want to support Sweeping Strikes in talents, and this new version should be more broadly applicable outside of strictly 2-target situations.
  • Cleave has been redesigned: Replaces Sweeping Strikes. 20 Rage. 6 second cooldown. Strikes up to 5 enemies in front of you for Physical damage, inflicting Deep Wounds. Cleave will consume your Overpower effect to deal increased damage.
    • Developers’ notes: Cleave clashed with Sweeping Strikes at lower target counts, making it feel useful primarily while SS is not active. By having it replace Sweeping Strikes when talented, Cleave can stand on its own and more dramatically affect Arms’ AoE gameplay.

Fury Warrior

  • Single-Minded Fury is back. Learned at level 14 alongside Titan’s Grip, Fury Warriors can once again use their abilities while dual-wielding one-handed weapons. While dual-wielding a pair of one-handed weapons, your damage done is increased by 8% and your movement speed is increased by 5%.
  • Recklessness now generates 40 Rage.
  • The following talents have been removed: Inner Rage, Furious Slash, Fervor of Battle, and Wrecking Ball.
  • Frenzy is a new talent: Rampage increases your Haste by 3% for 12 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. This effect is reset if you Rampage a different primary target.
  • Seethe is a new talent: Bloodthirst generates 2 more Rage, or 4 more Rage when it critically strikes your primary target.
  • Cruelty is a new talent: While Enraged, Raging Blow deals 20% more damage and has a 30% chance to instantly reset its own cooldown.
  • Frothing Berserker updated: Rampage has a 20% chance to immediately refund 40 Rage.
  • Meat Cleaver is back: Whirlwind deals 30% more damage and now affects your next 4 single-target melee attacks, instead of the next 2.
  • Onslaught now generates 15 Rage (was 10).
  • Dragon Roar cooldown reduced to 30 seconds (was 35 seconds). No longer reduces enemy movement speed. Now critically strikes for 3 times normal damage.
  • Bladestorm damage increased by 20% (Fury only).
  • Reckless Abandon updated: Recklessness generates 20 more Rage and greatly empowers Bloodthirst and Raging Blow. Bloodthirst becomes Bloodbath, dealing 100% more damage on a 3 second cooldown. Raging Blow becomes Crushing Blow, dealing 100% more damage and charging you to your target within 10 yards.
    • Developers’ notes: We’d love to hear your thoughts on how it feels using empowered Bloodthirst and Raging Blow.

Protection Warrior

  • Ravager has been updated to match the changes made to Arms’ version of the ability: 45 second cooldown, lasts 12 seconds (compressed by Haste), deals damage every 2 seconds, chases nearby enemies, and generates 10 Rage each time it deals damage.
  • Dragon Roar has been updated to match the changes made to Fury’s version of the ability: 30 second cooldown, no longer reduces enemy movement speed, critically strikes for 3 times normal damage.
  • Crackling Thunder now also increases the movement speed reduction of Thunder Clap by 10%.
  • Ignore Pain now caps at 2x value (was a cap of 1.3x value).
18 Likes

As a fury warrior of 15 years I think SMF is fantastic but.

I cant seem to figure out how to obtain two one handers to weild.

any help ?

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They literally say in the post that it isn’t currently possible to get them to drop.

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Really wish you guys had just gone with allowing Fury Warriors to transmog 1-handers instead.

Fact of the matter is SMF or TG is going to end up superior to the other.

Then i’m just going to be annoyed when my personal loot table has 3 raid weapon drops I don’t want vs armor/trinkets.

18 Likes

Not sure how I feel about losing deep wounds on execute. I’ve always really enjoyed jamming out with execute spam in that last 20%. Not like it lasts very long anyways. Mortal Strike being used as a maintenance button along with colossal smash could feel clunky during that last 20% of sweet, sweet executes.

A thought about warrior Venthyr ability “Condemn”. The protection aspect of this ability seems really meh. I can easily see this damage reduction being out shined by other covenants really quick. My idea is to give us a buff that simply reduces ALL damage taken by (X) amount per attack scaling with attack power/versatility instead.

I want to pick Venthyr as my covenant because I enjoy the ability so much as dps, but since I often times also tank I can not see me handicapping myself by using Condemn as prot.

3 Likes

Thought I would make a second post here on an issue I see when it comes to SMF. As others have stated, this would be much better implemented as a purely cosmetic thing, as going into Shadowlands, it will require two different sets of weapons because you cannot use a 2H and 1H together, only 2 of the same type. From a raiding standpoint, this will feel awful getting an upgrade of one of the weapon types, then getting a second upgrade of a different weapon type and not being able to equip both of them because the current design pigeonholes you into one OR the other. So unless you already have 2 swords of each type going into the raid, getting an upgrade of one will be next to pointless unless you already have that type. Not to mention the balancing issue that one will almost certainly always perform slightly better, and if they change it, you have to swap 2 weapons to play optimally. TL;DR, please just make it cosmetic, since you are already lifting most restrictions on trasmoging weapons. It will be a gearing nightmare trying to maintain 2 sets of weapons, which, as a melee, are much more important than the stat sticks they are for ranged.

19 Likes

Love the new Deep Wounds, having mastery more evenly impact our damage makes it a much more appealing stat. The only real negative thing about it is that the first mortal strike on a target won’t particularly feel good but that’s far from a deal breaker.

The new Cleave feels like a mixed bag to me, it’s nice that it works on even two targets and having Overpower buff it is a nice change. That said I don’t like the idea of it replacing Sweeping Strikes. It feels like this change was made to smooth over SS being on the GCD. Personally I’m of the belief that Cleave should replace Whirlwind as our AoE filler because it feels more thematic with the Arms spec. As for what do to Fervor of Battle the talent could simply be reworked to transform Slam into what it currently is.

The new Collateral Damage is a fun idea but I worry that it’s going to end up being too much of a hassle to use when compared to the other talents it’s competing against.

I’m a little sad to see Ravager back to replacing Bladestorm as the idea of juggling between the two in M+ packs sounded really fun. Love that it shows our actual equipped weapon on the animation though.

20 Likes

Theoretically this could be fixed by applying Deep Wounds before dealing the damage. Mortal Wound is already applied first, and on Sub rogues Find Weakness happens before Shadowstrike’s damage.

But, yea, from my preliminary testing on quest mobs and rares, the mastery does feel a lot better. Even without meters or doing a dungeon yet, the direct damage already feels meatier. That MS will be useful during execute windows kinda gives it a reverse Executioner’s Precision feel, which was rather fun.

(Disclaimer: I mostly play rogues and cats, so take my feedback with a grain of salt and stuff.)

15 Likes

This patch brings us the first look at legendary powers and basically I couldn’t ask for more. Executioner’s Precision, T13 Set Bonus (chance to apply CS to a target when you MS), T20 Set Bonus (Mortal Strike while Bladestorming), Thundergod’s Vigor effect, and more.

My only qualm so far is going to be acquisition, but we have to see how that’s going to work.

7 Likes

Cleave feels really good to play with especially when your running Anger Management or Ravager. Maybe someone can correct me but it felt like the overpower buff was closer to 15% than it was to 20% when cleave consumed it.

The difference in damage between Collateral + Fervor didn’t seem too far off from Cleave at 1 stack of overpower and the number of 2 stack cleaves was relatively low. The dreadnaught value in a cleave focused build could be a little better to separate the two damage styles a bit.

Massacre: Does not apply to Condemn. Not sure if it should but when it replaces the ability it would be nice.

Mortal Strike / Shield Block: More of a gameplay flow feedback point that I probably can’t be fixed just due to the restriction. Using the macro;

#showtooltip Shield Block

/equipslot 16 7th Legionnaire's Longsword

/equipslot 17 7th Legionnaire's Aegis

/cast Shield Block

Will allow me to Shield Block with just this single click. With a 1h you still have access mainly to overpower to stack it prior to a cleave or a mortal strike but neither ability will cast when you use a similar macro to put your 2h back on. Having that second keybind is annoying. :sweat_smile:

Solved the macro problem with equipset just need to watch for the internal GCD and be careful of resetting your swing timer

I second this opinion.

Overall I’m really enjoying how Arms feels and I like the new Mastery.

13 Likes

Any plans on doing something with Slam for Fury? It seems like its just a filler spell, but WW sounds like its better. Fury has talents that can add tons of complexity to the rotation.
Maybe it shouldn’t be removed, but why use in its current state? I think someone mentioned having Onslaught replace it in the talent tree.

I want to signal boost this as well.

I understand there are worries about how to make stances work in the modern game but I think they are a better unifying part of the warriors specs when compared to shields. They might take some work to make them fit but now is the perfect opportunity.

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IMO the only thing that would take time to work would be how does protection benefit from this. You could probably just copy paste Defensive Stance Talent that Arms Warriors have for Arms and Fury into baseline, and that would go a long way.

Dare I say for protection… Gladiator stance?

12 Likes

That’s generally what I was thinking. Not necessarily glad stance as it was because I think there were some balancing issues with it but a stance option for Prot where they increase their damage potential but lower their defensive potential & maybe threat generation. That way there is a risk v. reward loop that would allow good players to shine and if you aren’t as confident or maybe your group doesn’t need the extra damage you don’t have to do it. Could be a great way to broaden the skill curve of the spec.

2 Likes