The problem with resetting Colossus Smash is that the debuff is pretty significant, and with frequent enough resets and enough luck, you can have a pretty high uptime on it. At that point, it’s no longer a short burst window to pump out damage, but a maintenance buff that you have little to no control over and instead of feeling excited about getting good procs, you feel pretty terrible and frustrated when you get unlucky and have lower uptime.
So the same terrible frustration that I have with the spec being overwhelmingly terrible for almost an entire expansion and being dead last in terms of damage, and utility during this beta?
Not saying that Arms is perfect now, but I do think that CS doesn’t belong on Tactician procs.
Put banner on our back and make cleave baseline.
Fix bugs please. Avatar overwrites, ravager delay and not working with unhinged. Can we get a list of mortal strikes that should and should not be able to cast a second? Massacre bugs.
Remove bonegrinder. Give dreadnaught waves a chance to apply CS pretty please
The biggest issue I have right now is the lack of response by the Dev team to the current class issues going into Shadowlands.
And that is outside the underperforming covenant choices, specs getting either neutered or not having a replacement for a crutch that was introduced at some point during BFA and lackluster legendaries/conduits.
There are still ability interactions that are not functioning right AS OF THIS MOMENT on the Beta servers. Arms Condemn is still broken, it does not synergize with Massacre. When a mob is between 35% and 20% HP, Condemn is not useable. When a Prot Warrior takes Ravager and uses Signet of Tormented Kings, it will still proc Bladestorm casts, even from Ravager.
I am sure there are many more… issues to sort out, but the lack of communication is… deafening. Furthermore, I feel that the full attention of Blizzard is directed at making 9.0 work in the scope of an 8.2.5 game, BFA minus the corruptions. Problem is, they still need to balance the game for when everyone hits 50. It doesn’t matter if some class gets an overpowered combo for the remainder of BFA so long as it balances out fine with Shadowlands and the loss of Azerite/Essences. Instead, we are seeing the BFA balance carry over into Pre-Patch and some classes just falling off the cliff when Shadowlands begins.
At least have the discussion with us. We just want Shadowlands to be just as fun as you want it to be. I know that maybe we have some ideas that seem very overpowered to you at the moment, but instead of turning the cold shoulder, talk to us, tell us why we cant have X Y or Z, maybe we can meet in the middle and come up with compromises that will help benefit us without severely overpowering us.
In our latest updates to Shadowlands, Colossus Smash and Warbreaker (if talented) will apply Deep Wounds from Arms Warrior’s Mastery. This change is aimed primarily at giving Arms an additional option for applying Deep Wounds in multi-target scenarios via Warbreaker, without having to rely solely on Bladestorm and Cleave (if talented), and to have Deep Wounds be reliably applied to both Colossus Smash targets when Sweeping Strikes is active.
This change should be testable, but will not yet be reflected in the Deep Wounds tooltip.
Why are you so dead set on not giving us cleave baseline? Can we get any communication.
You still need to put banner on our back. Bonegrinder is still a very bad conduit.
Hooray! Any news on our covenant abilities?
This is super disappointing. With the state of Warriors in Shadowlands and beta and how weak they are, the many issues such as rage generation and completely nonexistent damage… while this does seemingly look to address one issue there is so much that feels wrong with warrior right now and I was hoping Blizz would take a closer look than this.
After posting 4 hours ago, I want to say thanks for giving us something.
Before you leave us, I do want to ask what the end design goal for Arms is for Shadowlands? Even though the overarching goal may be similar to what it was in BFA, there is clearly a lot changing in the shift over to Shadowlands and I think it would help ease the minds of every Arms main who is in panic mode for something releasing in one month and 4 days.
Once again, thank you very much for the update. I can’t wait to test it out.
This is a good change, and addresses one of the issues many have with the class, however it basically turns Warbreaker into the only viable talent on that row. Why would anyone take anything but that when it applies both the Colossus Smash debuff and Deep Wounds to targets in an AoE scenario? You would be severely limiting your damage output otherwise.
I would hope that upon recognizing this, perhaps Cleave could be made baseline and the talent be replaced with a buff to the ability of some kind (so it could compete with Warbreaker). Or perhaps have Cleave no longer replace Sweeping Strikes. Either of these two changes would go a long way toward balancing out Cleave and making it a viable choice in the face of the new Warbreaker.
Keep in mind, I really like the change, but it’s a gigantic buff to Warbreaker without compensating and adjusting the other talents in the row to maintain the choice we currently have.
I feel like this doesn’t really solve much, half the time you use warbreaker, you’re either hitting bladestorm, or sweeping strikes spreading deep wounds. If bladestorm isnt up, your aoe damage without cleave is pretty awful, as it would be all loaded into whirlwind, which is not very impactful. This seems like a pretty irrelevant change ultimately in my eyes. Why not make cleave baseline and set the cleave talent to function similar to the way it was at the start of beta where it was activated by whirlwind, but instead of enable it, empower it. For example: make the talent: when your whirlwind hits 3 or more targets, cause your next cleave critically strike, or to deal 50% bonus damage or something, obviously numbers can be tweaked but I think that seems like a decent idea. Also revert the change to collateral damage
It’s pretty nice for target swapping.
Such a weird change; zero damage tweaks? We do awful, awful damage. It’s actually depressing, if it weren’t for battleshout being necessary now I would feel bad for my raid team for bringing me.
If your design is meant to make Arms PVP and Fury PVE, then fine…but the damage of fury is garbage compared to every other melee. At this point, it may actually be better to ignore battleshout and just bring another sub rogue.
I think part of the problem is that, historically anyways, warriors are pretty mediocre at the start of the Xpac and then mid to late they become these rage filled monsters that crush things into paste.
It would be really nice for someone at blizzard to come out and say like “look arms is going to be great pvp and mid pack at best at the start but y’all know you’re gonna scale like mad”.
Actually it would be nice for Blizzard to just in general talk to the community a lot more…
While the CS/Warbreaker change is nice it still doesnt solve any core underlying problems with the spec.
Our auto attacks only generate 27 rage when both Mortal Strike and Rend cost 30. And the only other way to reliable generate Rage is with skullsplitter or using bladestorm.
Arms can only spread its deep wounds via Cleave or Cooldowns. The problem there is that you made Cleave replace Sweeping strikes so we either give up on reliable deep wounds spreading or give up on 2 target execute sniping.
The talents having negative synergies for example Sudden Death/Deadly Calm when most of the time we feel the need to use Anger Management.
Conduits are incredibly underwhelming as they either buff things like Slam or give us another Mortal Strike which don’t dish out an incredible amount of damage in the first place.
Legendaries are also in an incredibly dire situation. Most people are playing Signet of Tormented Kings with Avatar talented purely to try and proc Fury’s Recklessness CD. Thats how deprived we are of rage to have a functioning rotation.
Editing this in because I forgot to in the initial post and I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere. If we end up using Condemn covenent we almost completely forgo applying deep wounds and just spam Condemn because it does more damage overall then MS with deep wounds. We simply just dont have enough rage to dump on our abilities resulting in a sluggish and unfun rotation
Starting to feel very on the fence about warrior unless there are actual % changes and core changes to cleave and SS. Prot had me sketchy enough about it, and now that arms and fury are looking so weak I might for the first time ever bench warrior.
I’m quite happy about Warrior Tank. I think we are in a good direction now.
I want to suggest some change.
1.Take off gcd from Demoralizing Shout and Ravager. I don’t beg for Spear of Bastion, would be too much
This change becouse isn’t fun have 3/4 ability still in gcd, srsly, not fun at all.
2. I’d love if you take in consideration to implement ALSO rage generation on the conduit “Show of Force”.
3. Some mechanic (mythic plus) like Boneflay in Necrotic Wake are huge problem, maybe we can generate rage from that kind of spell?
4. Last concern is about some bosses that don’t hit you (melee), that mean we generate LESS rage. In that kind of bosses we need to build rage to use Ignore Pain (expensive).
Thank you for the attention!
The ability that applies Deep Wounds is still not benefitting from the mastery so Warbreaker applying it sounds good but doesn’t do anything. The idea behind the change that now we have more way to spread Deep Wounds is stupid because we always want to use Warbreaker with Bladestorm/Ravager (especially with Ravager) and after that there is no other way to spread it.
And what about Collateral Damage? How are we supposed to spread Deep Wounds before we hit the buffed Whirlwind? Not like anyone will use this talent but still would like to know the idea behind these changes.
Also what is our aoe damage without cleave? Spam Whirlwind that does less damage than an auto attack? It is kinda pathetic.
The most recent buff is absolutely tonedeaf to the actual issue.
This change is just forcing us to take warbreaker, which will STILL lead us to either:
Not use bladestorm during warbreaker
have NO way to spread deep wounds for 30 seconds?
Is this actually the intent of the class design? How does anyone respond to the feedback here with a buff to warbreaker?