FEEDBACK: Warlock Class Changes

Honestly, they just need to bring back the MoP/WoD version of Demonology. Full toolkit, talents, glyphs, everything.

It’d be easier than trying to fix the current mess that exists now. All of the mechanical design has already been done (and worked very well). It’d just need some numbers tuning to fit into the post-post-post-post-item-squish world.

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I know it’s kind of late in the feedback cycle but I still wanted to say that I made mention of my concerns. I will primarily focus on Affliction in a raiding/m+ pov. as it’s always been my favorite flavor of Warlock to play. Other people who have had a pref for the other specs should be the one’s who influence them.

With Shadowlands warlocks have recvd a few changes, most notably Malefic Rapture. Before we go anywhere I feel like this is a great direction to take Aff. instead of the stacking UA mechanic that we have known for the last few expansions. It provides a bit of on demand damage for doing what a DoT class does, applying DoT’s. Right now it feels a little meh w/ the nerfs it’s recvd but I feel as the expansion goes on this will be something we see change as we gear up. Thumbs up for adding it to our mastery table. I’m looking forward to seeing how this evolves with SL.

Like others have pointed out StS feels almost out of place w/ the above mentioned ability. What’s the purpose of this talent? From my testing it feels like saving your shards for VT or more MR would be a no brainer. Adding some other sort of bonus to Seeds would hands down be a better idea. Something similar to Soul Flame to Seeds, making it apply Shadow Embrace, or making Seeds apply Agony would make this a talent worth looking into. As it stands right now it appears like this will be another expansion where this talent is ignored which is unfortunate. I feel like every talent should have at least some niche it falls into, this just doesn’t.

Must have a CD!! Darkglare. Geez where do I begin…
I had a running joke w/ my guild in Legion “What’s a CD?”. Boy do I regret opening my mouth. Then we got DG in BfA and it worked well w/ the UA stacking mechanic we carried over from Legion. BUT since we no longer stack UA in SL this CD feels extremely boring and nothing to look forward to like it has all throughout the current expansion. Sure it extends DoT’s for a wider MR window but it’s still meh as far as a CD goes I feel like we should return to our roots. Shun the idea of EVERY class needing a 2 or 3 minute CD. Being that Aff. is looking to be an extremely strong execute/multi-tar. spec, CD’s like this really shouldn’t be a thing. If you really want us to have a CD bring back the oldschool once (maybe twice) per fight CD like we had w/ Summon Doomguard. Make it an impactful choice to use in M+ or raid, just like lust currently is. You could even apply the same reset restrictions to it that lust has. I feel like DG could fit the bill quite nicely here. Ramp up it’s damage, add a buff to if it target is in execute, include more than a single target for the beam and you will have something that would be glorious and fun as hell to press!! As far as DS:M or DS:I I feel like they are in a good spot as they are. Super nice bump to dps every few mins as they allow you to hold onto them for that extra bit of umph should it be needed or just press when it’s avail. depending on fight. Dark Caller could be changed to something else, maybe an effect I mentioned earlier “DG eye beam affects targets afflicted w/ Agony” or “If the target is below 20% DG’s dmg is increased by X”

Shadow Embrace is a welcome nod to oldschool warlocks. I don’t really have a ton to say about this return other than I would like to see duration slightly extended by another 3 seconds or so. I feel like StS applying this debuff would be nice as it would make that a choice to actually consider. It would also feed into the whole DoT all the things playstyle most Aff. locks love and would actually fit the theme of the talent row. I am happy to see it return though.

Grim. of Sac. the bastard talent of warlocks near and far. Since we are being nostalgic w/ unpruning and the return of certain abilities/effects. I’d really like to see this updated/restored. Sac pet to gain X ability/DMG Buff/Buff. I really don’t know what else to say about this.

As it stands right now I am looking forward to seeing what potential the spec has in SL, expecially w/ the return of tier and the possibilities that alone brings to the table. I apologize for the late feedback, but I feel it’s always better late than never. GL/HF!! See ya in SL.

2 Likes

Destruction warlock feedback according to the last build (only PvP):

  1. Decimating bolt has some problems in PvP. There are some things that are wrong with this ability:
    1) When you cast it and someone LoS while charge is mid air or it gets reflected/immuned, nothing happens. This ability is hard to get casted in PvP. May be it should with the Backdraft passive;
    2) Stacks are purgeable. On top of the 1st problem, this makes Destruction less playable in PvP, because everyone now has offensive dispell. Right now Necrolords is the only one playable Covenant for Destruction in PvP. So please, fix it for us; :heart:

  2. Dark soul is dispellable. After loosing Grimoire of Supremacy in SL, Destruction Warlock burst isn’t that scary in PvP anymore. This spec was always about surviving from one offensive CD to another (We don’t talk about BfA here, OK? :smiley: ). The current Dark Soul makes this playstyle almost impossible. This change should be reverted for Destruction IMO.

  3. Casting is not rewarding. Destruction was always about hardcasting and making damage with it. Right now instant casts doing more damage in PvP than your incinerate/Chaos bolt. Damage should be rebalanced to Incinerate and Chaosbolt from another spells, so spec would feels like it should.

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This has been a problem since Legion, and it’s not just a PvP issue. Chaos Bolt is too weak versus just about everything. Limited Backdraft stacks make casting Incinerate feel bad.

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Destruction Warlock Feedback: PvP and Arena Design
Overall I enjoy the changes made to destruction warlock - the addition of a baseline slow, demonic circle is very welcome to increasing the skill cap. However, I do have some feedback concerning two cornerstone shadowlands destro abilities - Dark Soul and Decimating Bolt. Dark Soul: Instability and the Decimating Bolt incinerate buff are magic effects, and therefore can be dispelled/purged. This change means this talent is near unusable in arena, as a vast majority or comps contain either a hunter, mage, shaman or priest. These are some of the only real means of burst destro possesses, and are hard countered by a simple dispel. I would say they should not be dispellable.
Currently, Chaos bolt hardly feels worth casting based on the risk to reward, compared to other classes, but this is a tuning issue that I’m sure will be reviewed.

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This week, Soul Rot has had its health cost removed, while retaining a minor mana cost. Additionally, the primary target of your Soul Rot will now take increased damage compared to the secondary targets.

Decimating Bolt has been tweaked to help balance out some talent choices that could greatly swing the value of this ability. For Affliction Warlocks with Drain Soul talented, Decimating Bolt will now only affect your next Drain Soul (was previously your next three). Destruction Warlocks with Fire and Brimstone chosen will have the bonus damage value reduced. For Demonology Warlocks, the buff has been altered to affect your next Shadow Bolt or Demonbolt (rather than just Shadow Bolt).

In an upcoming build, the buff will only interact with Demonbolt for Demonology Warlocks.

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I’m confused by these two statements next to eachother? So next week’s build will only have Decimating Bolt affect Demonbolt but this week’s has both Shadow Bolt and Demonbolt on Decimating Bolt?

What I’m hearing is “provide meaningful choice by NERFING everything into oblivion”. Pretty chill design philosophy.

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It’s probably not ready for deployment on the Beta yet, but in the works for the next update. Meaning it’ll ultimately come down to it buffing ONLY Demonbolt for Demonology, not interacting with Shadow Bolt at all.

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That’s how I read it. My guess is that they tested it internally with both Shadow Bolt and Demonbolt in today’s build and didn’t like it, so next week’s build will be just Demonbolt.

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Would appreciate clarification either way T.T

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This feels like a huge nerf to Aff and M+. Why do this?

I understand that covenant balance is important and that shows with this weeks changes; however, this made aff viable single target with a niche nuke on Drain Soul. Now that looks to be somewhat dead. Couldn’t the other covenant abilities have been buffed or reworked to compete in some fashion, instead?

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no, decimating bolt (plus drain soul plus all the buffs to drain soul from conduits and legendaries) didn’t make them “viable.” it made them “absurdly strong.” it needed to be nerfed, anyone who played and tested it understood it was going to be nerfed. maybe they should’ve gone to 2 drain souls first, idk. but this nerf was long overdue.

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I think two would be a happy middle ground especially since there are times of high movement where getting a full one off can be challenging.

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Would it be possible to nerf the buff it give to drain soul instead, maybe make it 100%. One stack make it alot less interesting rotation wise and also kinda make the necrolord conduit obsolete. I agree that decimation bolt need a nerf but I would like to keep the playstyle it provide.

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Tuning Covenant abilities might imply the devs are done with actual class/spec design… any hope for Demonology or should we just kiss it goodbye?

PS: The other two specs are fun and work in PVP/PVE, hopefully they’re lower priority on the list.

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What happens to the conduit that gives you a chance to refund a proc of decimating bolt? Still 10% on 1 use every 45 seconds? that seems abysmally low, like 1 refund every 5 bosses low

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Good question. This needs an answer. By dropping it to 1, the conduit then should always reset it, or always reset under certain conditions.

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Agree 1 charge makes it a lot less interesting and less interactive rotation wise, especially cause of the setup required with the legendary etc. Seems excessive, would be better at 2 charges and maybe nerfing the legendary a little if needed; or simply stay at 3 with reduced damage, therefore not killing the Necro conduit either.

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I’m happy, now you aren’t forced into taking Necrolord due to the absurdly overpowered synergy.

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