Feedback: Trickster Rogue in The War Within

Classes Rogue
266

I agree and I would say form dictates function as all things in life are bound to. Fun will always be subjective because some obsess over big numbers and place unrealistic expectations upon others as well as themselves.

  • there is dedicated burst that pushes the ceiling higher.
  • there are ways to temporarily elevate even though horrible lows depending on how one talents as previously mentioned.
  • the tree does not impose upon our specialization, isn’t ridiculous to track, has very clear visual and auditory queues, and doesn’t rely on gimmicks.

CDG is a big hitter one can build into and predict also previously discussed. The developers get it after tracking this thread that feint yadda yadda as people echo that when additional triggers for all interactions were placed in moderately occur and keeps a dynamic tempo instead of static 2-3 min cd that some entities are trying to push which isn’t healthy.

KS and ST have serious punch within reason , CDG is another big puncher instead of adding another bug button. The dynamic gameplay is straight forward. It is a lot different when you play it than what it sounds like by reading it. Instead of people logging in here to throw up a fight they should rationally sit back and think and look at the entire picture.

When I say that feint doesn’t feel forced and that the gameplay is honestly smooth and you only use it when you deem necessary, i really mean it. There are 2 charges afterall (even if they don’t change it) on a 15sec cd and less than that essentially on demand for both of us that share it. There just appears to be a lot of misinformed hear say that is influencing things. Multi classers cannot compare rogues to others as rogue operates far differently “its like using bark skin to x”, different class and different function with different cds.

They cannot put it on Eviscerate / Dispatch as that would be too static when it is exciting to be dynamic. There are a definitely a few times due to TC that I would get triple feeds while bursting or double feeds of UB while opening without even using feint. FS procs guaranteed like riposte did where you’re at the halfway mark naturally for a fatttt CDG when you want it to be. Trickster and the other rogue trees as well as other hero talents trees will/ are supplementing things to build off of instead of becoming limiting factors. Power is in the spec as a whole, not because of x. They have themes and focus and they did a very good job on it.

Deathstalker will have its own thing and possibly have some poisonous / blight bombing stuff ( hard to know but we can speculate) but it will be tuned to do the exact same 10% as all the other trees will do and be competitive to its counterparts. The kids obsessed with numbers can go back to read the developer’s stated goals that are rational, balanced, and well thought out.

I expect more from rogues, and I would expect our kind to be a bit more mature instead of looking for “broken” “imba” and other propaganda starting terms and for people to unplug from infuencers. Do as they will, the tree stands and it’s solid objectively as the damage is there and the fun factor is there but People like different things (subjectively and a good thing) and that is why DS will do a different thing with a whole different emphasis while not wrecking subtlety or assassination. When people place unrealistic rage against the developers because x wasn’t what this player fabricated in their mind then makes constant bashing against them.

The videos and people going “its trash” or (names left out obviously) are ticked it isn’t what they wanted, in their way, to fit their personal agendas. 1-2-3 oneshot hehe isn’t what they are going to do, time to leave that crap alone once and for all. Want to lay down the funk? Plan it out. Line that wicked CDG upon some joker into a wicked ST and all the other custom abilities you can choose to use in our spec tree.

I tried everything at this point and all builds felt equally customizable with different emphasis. That felt solid and definitely killed things at equal pace. Something for everyone with everyone in mind while regarding all talents and all possibilities was the correct and only appropriate decision to make and they did a great job on this.

1 Like
267

It is early alpha so it is hard to say how it all will look.

Keep in mind that in late alpha of SLs I liked NF Sepsis the most because it provided the most interesting game play even though it was a bit cumbersome to make it work. Over time during beta Sepsis was reworked and even on live to make it function better. Was it more fun when it was reworked? Not necessarily but it was a compromise as it functioned better and it was not clunky.

Now, onto the question of why Rogue players push back on Feint being turned into a DPS CD.

That is because Vanish is already that way and Rogue’s have lost a lot of survivability tools over the years. As a result the greater emphasis has been put on Vanish, Clos and Feint. By making Feint also a DPS cool down whether on CD or even during key situations it may lead to very difficult situations to balance offense/defense.

This happened with Recuperate in Cata for Sub where it provided Energetic Recovery or energy over time while it was up.

Being able to marry offense and defense sounded good on paper. The problem was it was too hard to balance. How do you tune Recuperate as a heal while it also provides energy over time? And that is the PVE side of the concern.

In PVP it was seen as too much being able to have offense and defense on tap with Recuperate.

Cata classic will launch and people will understand better when they play.

Anyways beyond that tangent the concern is that Feint is going to be hard to balance as a defensive if it also becomes a key part of DPS for Trickster.

If Feint receives a nerf because of Trickster design and you don’t even intend to play Trickster…lets say Fatebound or Deathstalker the impact will be felt.

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

268

My only issue is how you seem to want to push your pov on everyone else sometimes. I fully respect your opinion, good write ups, but no need to try to invalidate and dismiss everyone else’s opinions.

The fact remains that in high level content you will have to align as much as possible into a max DM stack danse and that is an issue with the core design combined with trickster.

Provide feedback! Just please avoid trying to tell us all how to think, we can make our minds after reading your and others opinions and seeing it for ourselves as time moves on

Keep up providing them feedbacks, its how we get stuff to get better for TWW release

4 Likes
269

You know something? I am so sick of making my class SO dependent on set ups of builder spender only inside burst set up windows that are stacking multipliers of tertiary stats.

I just want my sinister strike to do a little damage, I want to Eviscerate to do a lot of damage, or spend my combo points on slice and dice. That’s about it. I want survivability through my dodge / parry. And I don’t want to be out of stealth but using stealth abilities to stack damage burst windows. It’s SO convoluted and every spec feels this way.

3 Likes
270

Why can’t situational buttons be situational? You should be popping feint during raidwide AOE damage as a good player, not… This.

1 Like
271

Please explain to us why its convoluted.

272

I’d be fine if feint added slice n dice, or if one of the 2 new trees we get adds slice n dice to be passive at the very least. I’m sorta okay with what it adds now, but I use it entirely too defensively as it is now. Because I also use the Elusiveness talent. I guess if this goes through I’ll change it to Cheat Death

1 Like
273

Seems like an ability called “Shiv” might be a better candidate for an upgrade to “Unseen Blade,” since neither spec is the one with additional functionality for it already.

274

Well turning utility like Shiv into a DPS button has never been a good idea which is why there is a talent Lightweigh Shiv to add a charge. But adding charges to Vanish and Feint to turn them into DPS buttons is a slippery slope when they should be about utility and defense.

What is next? Extra charges on Crimson Vial because it gives energy over time or Evasion?

Where do you draw the line and how do you balance that by adding extra charges???

I am okay with Vanish being an offensive cool down but at some point you have to say that is the limit.

:thinking:

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

1 Like
275

oh god lets hope not

for assa-outlaw the hero talents could focus on ambush, since the specs share it
aside from that, dunno, slice and dice?

for assa-sub they could go heavier on the poisons or rupture, or even sepsis. I just hope waylay gets brought back tbh

if they wanted to make feint a nicer button, all they had to do is give it the functionality of crimson vial, but on a 15 sec cd, and remove crimson vial
more frequent healing and one fewer button, double win.

1 Like
276

Indeed, and even then imo they took it too far when Vanish started giving extra bonuses on top, like the CDR dust I hate so much for Sub.

Like we’ve beaten our utility enough… let them live!

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277

I think I would generally regret using Shiv as a DPS CD a lot less than Feint.

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278

Yeah don’t play assassination then :joy: since we already use shiv for dps if any of it’s hero talent dips into utilities we won’t have any left!

But I will also continue crusading against Shadowdust on sub, tickster is just shifting even more utilities away from rogues kits toward DPS

1 Like
279

The reason why a talent exists to give the extra charge is because it took a utility tool away from Assassination and player complained non stop.

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

280

Was this hero talent build an April fools joke. Watched the alpha for other classes and I have seen some amazing things but this…seems a bit lack luster. Well if you want to see some cool hero classes check out the warlock and mage. Very nice visuals. Don’t know about paladins, i think they are getting reworked atm to match their hero talents.

281

Some Rogues have said they do not want flashy visuals while others want flashy visuals so there is a split.

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

282

I do apologize for my irate comment, but i really love the class. I just don’t want the developers to go “Ok, all done with the war within. All aspects are done, dungeons, delves, and pvp…oh pvp we did do the rogues right.” “Oops, um hold on a sec knew we forgot something” “ok assassins get a new poison, outlaw gets um…uh…how bout a cannon barrage and subtlety lets give them an hidden blade” “why hidden because we will tie it to something they will never use in their rotation.”

1 Like
283

No, I understand but we will have to see what alpha brings.

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

284

Well it is poor design so complaints are justified

2 Likes
285

I don’t disagree because Assassination is one of the specs that should not lose utility.

:man_surfing: :surfing_woman:

1 Like