What, we don’t like aligning planets, then aligning the next star system that also need to have its own planet aligned, then aligning the next galaxy over in the same way at the same time to do basic damage?
What a crazy concept 
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Im not mad at unseen blade if that is what it took for me to get a hemo type effect back but it likely isn’t sticking as is and they don’t want it to be a high uptime thing .
Dunno man, we will see in the next few builds probably and hopefully everyone is mature about stuff for the sake of our class.
People going nuts over aoe tekken moves and other nonsense doesn’t focus on core stuff and leads to further craziness.
As long as surprising strikes and fazed uptime is alright and can have diff triggers deterministically then ill be ok. Idc if it was a choice node passive vs turning it into a 15sec cd “hemo”. Anything to close the gap on legion turned us into and nudge us in marrying the past with the present.
In the end of the day, its their game and ill be subtlety no matter what. Im no turn coat.
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If Death Stalker is anything solid , we are getting nerfed regardless because of propaganda. I dig trickster but im at a point where I have learned my lesson about getting my hopes up.
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Honestly I hope this first batch of class changes we’ve seen posted about (for other class) heralds whats to come for us to. They want more optionability (thats a word let’s pretend) in the trees, which Rogues don’t really have right now overall. Shadowdust for example strangles Sub so hard I don’t think its fun anymore.
We can hope the war within updates will help, and that Trickster get actually reworked.
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Coup de gras will bring back a fat deterministic evis / dispatch until some ele shaman screeches about how hard instant lava bursts for 200k+ is then we repeat the inevitable cycle.
It will likely be like bfa prepatch where core abilities slammed then we got heavily nerfed . They are set on keeping us cd reliant so SV aint an option either nor is any decent form of sustain so yep.
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The ironic thing is Rogues are CD reliant and slamming everything in dance windows is how Rogues are performing in PVE and PVP now.
So non Rogues complain about this non stop but this is how BlizZard balances Rogues now.
Hopefully with Cata classic people see that Rogues can be balanced by having damage outside of CDs.
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Cata kids aren’t safe either. Aint no confounded way. Us rogues may fight dirty, burn down establishments, and acquire items of interest but other classes follow the true scum ethos “ to misinform, misreport, instigate. To redirect all faults to others especially upon rogues, may my childish antics reign supreme and be seen as truth especially against rogues so we may gain favorable tuning and odds against them because they don’t conduct themselves according to what we feel is fair”. Then they rip a fat vape cloud and sacrifice a Stouffers 5lb lasangna over a warlock ritual to seal the anti rogue fraternity letters and send them off to town criers.
When I started writing this I was going in depth as to why I am really not fond of the new Trickster hero talents. I will just echo that I personally (in line with the majority sentiment presented in this thread) really despise the notion of using feint as a core rotational ability. I will just leave it at that.
Instead I present to you things that come to mind when I think “Trickster” rogue:
(This is just a quick glorified concept design I came up with that is fitting of what a “trickster” rogue would be that actually would get me excited. I fully acknowledge that functionally this might not be feasible. I just wanted to break the bland mold of modifiers which is the rut the game has devolved into. New expansions used to bring amazing cool new class/spec defining abilities now all we get are modifiers… I would love for some of that innovation of old to return.)
Core mechanic - Clones
- Clones look exactly like the player replicate attacks doing a % of damage done by the rogue
- Clones can be manipulated positionally and swapped to creating diversions and “tricking” the opponent.
- Either create a new CD (placeholder name: Create Clone) or bake it into Shadow Blades
- (Potentially Shadow Dance, Secret Tech could also create clones)
- Using this ability creates a clone
- Clones can replicate damage done
- The Rogue can swap positions with the clone
- You could bake Fazed and Flawless form into instances of damage done by the clone
- Clones created this way are active attacking whatever the rogue attacks
- Using Vanish, shadow step, distract, gouge and smoke bomb create a clone (that looks exactly the same as the player).
- This is meant to create diversions and “trick” the opponent.
- You then expand on this and allow for cool things with the clones
- The rogue can manipulate the position of the clone and/or swap positions with the clones after a predefined period of time (again we are “tricking” our opponents visually and positionally)
- Clones created via utility redirect a % of damage that would be taken by the rogue to the clone instead
- Clones created against a healer could absorb a portion of the healing that the healer would do from its intended target to the clone/rogue instead (think MS effect)
- Clones created via utility remain stationary and do not replicate damage but retain all the utility functionality described in points 3)-5)
- Being hit with Feint/Evasion active and few seconds after coming out of vanish
- Has a chance to create a clone. The clone absorbs the instance of damage and reflects the damage back at the attacker works against spells too (give it a reasonable ICD).
- This clone has no other functional purpose i.e you can not switch positions with it and does not replicate any additional damage
- Could also play with this idea and change it so that instead of reflecting damage it can maybe distract the opponent instead (applying Fazed and Flawless form)
- When a clone is active
- Could passively absorb X% of damage that would be taken by the rogue this would help with passive survivability
- Clones being the core element means that damage outside of dance windows could also be tuned.
- Further potential utility
- If an enemy kills a clone they get dazed or distracted (again plays into the Faze and Flawless Form theme)
So overall the vision is:
- Trickster revolves around the creation of clones
- Clones have damage throughput by replicating the attacks done by the rogue at a reduced %. Only clones created via defined damage cooldowns are active attacking what the rogue attacks
- Clones created via utility abilities are strictly for the utility aspects of clones (do not replicate damage)
- Reducing/Reflecting Damage
- Allowing for positional swaps (creating diversions)
- Applying additional CC
- Applying Faze and building up flawless form
- Clones have utility by applying faze and building up flawless form. Also potentially by distracting/disorienting enemies
- Clones help with survivability by absorbing and/or reflecting instances of damage back to the attacker.
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I love love love the Thousand Cuts talent. I’m glad Blizz didn’t cave to the vocal group clamoring for Slice and Dice’s removal. The solution isn’t to remove the ability, it’s to improve it. Thousand Cuts will help SnD feel more rewarding to press.
That being said, I feel indifferent to the tree as a whole and I look forward to seeing the other two.
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We’ll get em by 11.1. Maybe 11.2 for sure!
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Hello no! Do you think I have infinite buttons or even enough time to control all of this, especially during a .8gcd? I don’t even have enough time to reliably swap to the correct ENEMY target for interrupts within a single GCD…
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As an amusing side note, it appears some classes have now seen all three of their hero trees already, but as has been the case for practically every expansion now, rogue hero talents, talent tree changes… pretty much everything, not a peep, outside of trickster which I feel has been pretty roundly shouted down here for the ‘feint as offensive’ gimmick. I doubt we’ll hear another thing substantial about rogues for weeks and whatever they’ve got is gonna be rushed onto test servers and then rushed right into the final product, as always.
Just delete us at this point.
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Hello no! Do you think I have infinite buttons or even enough time to control all of this, especially during a .8gcd? I don’t even have enough time to reliably swap to the correct ENEMY target for interrupts within a single GCD…
Again read my initial disclaimer that this was just meant as a fun glorified concept art and not really meant to be dissected for its functional applicability.
Though even to your proposed problem could easily be solved without requiring additional key binds. Functionally the way it would work would be:
- If you activate a utility clone with a utility key press (vanish, shadow step, distract, gouge, smoke bomb etc) would create the clone that serves its utility purposes I described
- This utility clones remain stationary and do not replicate damage and last for N seconds
- To switch positions with the clone you simple re-press the utility button you used to create the clone. This means functionally there are no additional key binds required.
That is just a simple way your proposed problem could be resolved. So it basically works similar to monk Transcendence without requiring additional key binds
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Resubbed to tell you i appreciate you giving new ideas instead of just being like “talent bad”. And the clone idea is cool.
Would prefer if there was no ability to control them. They also dont need to look exactly like player characters… or move. Just have abilities leave behind a cloudy silhouette resembling the player. Later ability usages can be replicated or have new special effects. Definitely love the idea of swapping places with a clone.
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I literally bought a foot pedal not long ago to be the ALT and CTRL keybinds because almost everything is full on my 12 button mouse and around my hand lol. It is surprisingly helpful and wasn’t too much $$. Definitely takes some getting use to. I mainly use the Ctrl and alt buttons on the foot pedal though for my arena 123 to gouge or cheap
I’ve considered the same, but ergonomically this isn’t viable for me, that and having dogs who like to lay under my desk.
Oof yeah I always hear stories of the things they chew up. Have you considered playing with ESDF instead of WASD if you don’t already? it unlocks a ton more button options around your fingers
i use TFGH, even more options
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Trickster Rogue may appeal to players that want to track as many buffs and debuffs as possible.
But from the little I have seen from alpha footage it is straight forward game play. The issue is how will the unfazed debuff be tuned in terms of proc rate or if there will be an internal cool down.
Problem is once this hits live it is likely to be as always a “hit all these things in this exact sequence and make sure Jupiter is aligned with Alpha Centauri else you won’t do competitive baseline damage”
Even if it looks casual on alpha, trickster has all the signs that it would add to that problem in TWW
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