FEEDBACK: Torghast, Tower of the Damned

Druid Torghast Anima Powers

The following powers are good and all specs can use them to some effectiveness-

  • Circlet of Weeds, Steelwood Slab, Moon-Spirit Essence, String of Fangs and Talons, Lycara’s Twig, Grasping Tendrils, Writings of Lycara, Lycara’s Bargain, Sylvatican Charm

  • Bottle of Moonshine- Enemies affected by Moonfire deal 20% less damage.

  • Draught of Midnight Blazes- While Moonfire is on at least 3 targets, your damage and healing are increased by 50%.

  • Orbit Breaker- Every 20th Moonfire tick calls down a Full Moon upon its target.

The Moonfire powers are great with the only downside being the accessibility of Moonfire for Feral(cat). Adding the Lunar Inspiration talent as an anima power would help. Haven’t run the tower as Feral, so not sure if that’s already an option.

Sylvatican Charm should apply Ironbark on Frenzy Regeneration ticks.


The following powers could use some tweaks-

  • Blood-Tinged Teeth- Growl increases the target’s damage taken by 30% for 8 sec.

I wish this debuff would last a little longer, otherwise you only get the debuff for 2 or so attacks. GCD from shifting in and out is rather annoying and usually other anima options are more attractive for non-Guardian specs.

  • Plague-Hardened Hide- Ironfur lasts 50% longer and persists outside of Bear Form.

Really cool talent but not very useful for non-Guardian specs. Ironfur costs a lot of rage and also lasts for a very short time. Increasing the duration by 50% is not worth the GCD to shift, build the rage and then use it. I suppose if you stack enough of these it’ll be useful but there are usually better options.

  • Oath of Druids- You permanently have the benefits of Heart of the Wild.
  • Affinity Stones- You have all of the Affinity passive bonuses, and their effects are increased by 100%.

The above anima powers are “ok”. The bigger issue here are the affinities themselves. As feral, the balance affinity isn’t very helpful and vice versa. Resto seems to benefit the most from these powers as the other specs are too specialized in their roles. Resto using balance affinity is also very clunky. It doesn’t feel good to use GCDs to shift into moonkin form to cast starsurge/starfire when caster form can access moonfire, sunfire and wrath already. Eclipse adding another layer of ramp to get damage going feels awful.

Love the name on the Affinity Stones anima power.


Annoying to use and weak, why do I keep getting this power?

  • Curious Bramblepatch- Entangling Roots deals (50% of Spell power) Nature damage every 2 sec.
  • Petrus Ring- Entangling Roots can withstand 300% more damage before breaking.
  • Rootwood Scarab- When Entangling Roots breaks, it explodes for (150% of Spell power) Nature damage to all nearby enemies.

At first glance these powers seem really cool but even with a couple of the bramblepatch powers stacked, roots just wasn’t doing enough damage for me to want to continue to cast it. Keep in mind that Entangling Roots is not an instant cast spell and the damage threshhold is super low (when you multiply 0 by 300%…it is still 0). The powers also don’t apply to the roots from Mass Entangle.

There is a way to cheese things by rooting a target and waiting a couple of minutes for it to die slowly without entering combat. The drain is slow though and sometimes does not out dps monster hp regen.

Suggestion here is to allow Mass Entangle to apply these effects and considerably buff them. For a blue-quality talent, Petrus Ring is very underwhelming and the value of these talents diminishes as the number of people in your party increases.


The following anima powers are seemingly bugged or have weird behavior-

  • Mighty Bash anima doesn’t work with Mass Entangle. The spell is completely removed from the spellbook and /casting Mighty Bash casts Mass Entangle.
  • Sylvatican Charm- healing others sometimes puts ironbark on the druid rather than on the target
  • Balance affinity and Resto affinity don’t play nice together when both are taken
  • Heart of the Wild doesn’t know which affinity to choose when the Druid has more than 1 affinity


PLAIN AWESOME, AMAZING POWERS-
This anima power deserves a whole section of its own. Hands down the most fun I have ever had playing a Druid. Shapeshifting felt awesome. Lycara’s Sash you are the best <3

1 Like

Updated May 13

We have a major update to Torghast in this new Alpha build for testers to experience.

Covenant Abilities

You will now be assigned a Covenant when entering Torghast, including that Covenant’s signature and class abilities.

  • Your test character’s Covenant will change daily, cycling through all four Covenants.
    • Developers’ notes: The goal here is to get a look at some abilities before we’re able to fully test the Covenants/Zones they belong to. Please note that Anima Powers do not yet exist for Venthyr, Necrolord, or Night Fae abilities. Additionally, paladins, rogues, and death knights are not quite ready for Torghast, but they’re coming soon™.

Classes

The following classes now have Anima Powers available to them and can now access Torghast, Tower of the Damned:

  • Hunter
  • Monk
    • Developers’ note: Monks are still missing a few powers, but they can begin testing.

Starting Room of the Damned

The Wayfinder in the starting room has been removed, and “Easy”, “Normal”, and “Heroic” runs have been removed. Please pay your respects.

  • Developers’ note: F

The Torghast entryway is now a room that allows you to pick which cell block you wish to attempt, through a series of portals. The portals are:

  • Twisting Corridors
  • Skoldus Hall (quest)
  • Fracture Chambers (quest)
  • The Soulforges (quest)
  • Coldheart Interstitia (quest)
    • Developers’ Notes: To emulate Easy, Normal, or Heroic runs, enter the Twisting Corridors. Other doors will take you to the 6-floor quest runs, which are currently limited to floors 1-6.

All Twisting Corridors runs now end after 18 floors, regardless of difficulty. Delving deeper into the Twisting Corridors unlocks higher floor checkpoints from which to start a run. After entering the Twisting Corridors portal, speak to the Wayfinder to select your starting floor number.

· Gameplay Changes

  • Deaths are now measured on a per-run basis:
    • 1 player: 5 deaths allowed (Tarragrue on 6th death)
    • 2 players: 8 deaths allowed
    • 3 players: 10 deaths allowed
    • 4 players: 13 deaths allowed
    • 5 players: 15 deaths allowed
  • Players can no longer ascend to the next floor without first defeating the Empowered creature guarding the portal.
  • Players who release their spirit after their party members have ascended to a higher floor will resume on the higher floor.
  • Ashen Phylacteries no longer require a killing blow to trigger Maw Power effects that are triggered by destroying them.
  • Shackled Brokers now have more distinct names, and if you snuff out their life force, that broker will remain dead for the remainder of your run.
  • The Broker’s Purse now drops less Phantasma than before, and this amount is now affected by group size.
  • Vendors should now instantly update their displays for all players when a player buys a limited-stock item.
  • Animimics now have a chance to drop something valuable.
  • The first Anima Cell of each run can now be found once you traverse through a portal.

The Jailer’s Torments

At higher floor difficulties, you’ll now find yourselves subjected to additional scrutiny from the Jailer in the form of stacking debuffs that will make your ascent more difficult.

  • A safe area at the beginning of each floor protects players from the effects of the Jailer’s Torments. Players remain safe until they leave the safe area, enter combat, or loot something.
  • The Torments differ by cell block:
    • Eye of Skoldus: The hounds of Skoldus periodically seek out players while they are out of combat.
    • Fracturing Forces: Mawsworn ambushers periodically hunt and stalk players while they are out of combat.
    • Soulforge Heat: The burning heat of the Soulforges constantly sears players for a percentage of their maximum health as Fire damage.
    • Breath of Coldheart: The life-sapping breath of the Coldheart Interstitia reduces player damage the longer they remain on a floor.
    • Mort’regar’s Echoes: Ghastly echoes of the dead haunt players, increasing the magic damage they receive the longer they remain on a floor.
    • Might of the Upper Reaches: The Jailer’s might crushes opposition, increasing the physical damage players receive the longer they remain on a floor.
  • Developers’ Notes: Much like Mythic Keystone dungeons have dangerous affixes at higher Keystone levels, those who ascend Torghast will endure the Torments of the Jailer. This is very much a work in progress and an early look at a system we’re iterating on. Please post your feedback on it in this forum thread.

In a way, it’s like dampening in Arena. It’s not the same as a timer but tries to gently nudge you to not wait for Bloodlust, and that is good.

And because of this, players who may complain about “No timer means no timer” … just don’t press W and there is no timer. :tada:

3 Likes

Morgan promised us DKs in Torghast this week! Pitchforks! =P

Right away i love the changes in this build for torghast, all except the “deaths are now for an entire run, not per floor”
Cause this makes the “gain souls, with a chance to instantly die” power WAY too risky to be worth.
It also makes shop floors scarey aswell, i have had shop floors where i need to cross a chain, and that is risky, ive nearly fallen off, and shop floors should have no danger to lose.

Plus having deaths on easier floors impact your deaths on harder floors just seems garbage, i for sure think it should be per floor, or maybe after 5 floors after the death, it goes away, to stop accidental deaths at the start of a run, ruining the end of a hard run.

6 Likes

Boo to the soft timer. Part of what makes Torghast so great is that you can play the level the way you want to. This stupid soft timer in the way of debuffs kills it. It’s just another obnoxious ticking clock Horrific Vision.

The best part of Torghast was picking the perfect Anima Power to buff out a specific & fun gameplay style that’s never been possible. Now we’re going to be forced to choose the most expedient power or the one that gets us through the level as fast as possible. The flavor is lost at that point.

For instance, you have a choice between something that buffs a long timer vs something that buffs run speed. You’ll have to pick the runspeed. This is BAD design.

The death timer, I’m not so upset over but that’s somewhat obnoxious as well. The feeling of being able to cheat the Tarragrue was fun. Now it’s not worth trying to make a mad dash to the portal to escape him. Might as well just let him kill us so we can start over again.

These changes are bad. This really kills the excitement I had for Torgash :confused:

27 Likes

It stacks slowly. So… when you start the run, you just fight your way to the next level. Take a break at the start of the floor. The entire point is to prevent degenerate gameplay (especially waiting for cooldowns every pull)

2 Likes

I dislike…like…all of this.

Torghast was at its best when I had to plan every single ability to be able to overcome a tough foe. It really pushed me to the brink of knowing how to min max my class and abilities to accomplish that. A soft timer inherently implies that mobs have to be weaker to ensure we don’t have to wait for CDS, which feels bad. Using your entire kit to survive feels incredible.

Would be cool to have CD reset areas for tackling tough foes to maintain that difficulty.

Towers only lasting 18 levels feels both ok and bad. I guess this is meant to balance the issue with anima powers and content becoming easier? It is nice to have a check point but it doesn’t really feel like a climb if it ends at 18 levels and then you go again, you know?

The 5 death limit for 18 levels might seems about right, but it also feels more punishing. Especially painful if you mess up and fall (I have a huge problem with platforms and heights that is triggered constantly by how some of the maps are handled, having the deaths be that more impactful because I struggle with orientation seems unfair)

10 Likes

There was a point when, after a dozen levels or so, the difficulty was irrelevant. It was fun, sure… but much like enabling cheat codes in a video game… how enjoyable will it be if it was mindlessly easy? I’d put it on par with 0-mask Vision runs – it started out kinda challenging, then as we powered up, it became way too easy. Doing it for a few weeks felt repetitive and boring. Imagine 2 more years of Visions… no thanks.

4 Likes

I understand where people are coming from that don’t want a timer, but I think at the same time Blizzard has to put some sort of soft cap that eventually ends the run.

The biggest thing is finding that right balance. If the tower is being treated as a reward source with say a weekly cap, the torments shouldn’t exist on any level up to and including the ones with the rewards.

Once you get really high where it becomes an extreme struggle to progress it makes sense to have them there as they become kind of a ceiling for the time being. But once we get better gear and the expansion progresses we can push that ceiling higher and higher.

Venthyr
Warrior
Arms

Door of Shadows

  • Did you find yourself interacting with your signature ability regularly?
    -Yes, I found it very useful for general mobility around the tower.

  • Did the signature ability solve a problem for you in a new way?
    -I couldn’t Heroic Leap across a pit to another ledge closer to the exit of the floor, because it could not find a path, but Door of Shadows got me right across.

  • In what situations did you find the signature ability most useful?
    -Anytime Heroic Leap was on Cooldown

  • In what situations did you find the signature ability least useful?
    -When I forgot about it

  • Did you find the signature ability working well with your Covenant class ability?
    -I feel they were two separate abilities that contributed to different parts of the gameplay experience. One was mobility and the other was for damage.

  • If you have used other Covenant signature abilities before, how would you compare your experience with this Covenant signature ability to the other Covenant signature abilities?
    -I found this more enjoyable and interactive than the Summon Steward ability.

Condemn

  • Did you find yourself interacting with your class ability regularly?
    -Every chance I got, I was throwing out a Condemn. It was very satisfying to use and the animation looked fantastic.
  • Did the class ability solve a problem for you in a new way?
    -It opened up new avenues for attack, due to it being able to be used above 80% as well as below 30%.
  • In what situations did you find the class ability most useful?
    -If someone was alive and I did not want them to be.
  • In what situations did you find the class ability least useful?
    -In the wreckage of the aftermath.
  • If you have used other Covenant class abilities before, how would you compare your experience with this Covenant class ability to the other Covenant class abilities?
    -The Spear of Bastion did not have the same weight behind it I feel. It allowed for good combo potential, sure, as it was satisfying to pull off with a Warbreaker + Bladestorm on a large pack of mobs. Condemn was a much more visceral feeling ability that made me feel like I was swinging around that Two Handed weapon with prejudice.
1 Like

The soft timer torments that ramps up every level till the boss level does help with the difficulty scaling problem and for those worried didn’t give any sense of needing to keep to the timer( it ticks up every minute and starts at 0). What I would like is if the rested safe zone stays at the start of each but obviously doesn’t work in combat. Real life stuff happens and it’s a long game mode, so sometime you need to go do something in real life for a few minutes. Some things can be planned for like bathroom breaks but not everything can be and also you could be like an pull a pack only to realize you were meant to stop and do something. the rested stop gives you the option of going back to the start if it’s easier to do than to push on to the next floor.

Why would you choose fast over fun?

When you have 4 of the same class, you’ll need to be efficient. After all, WoW is a spreadsheet (I say this mocking the idea that people who want to min/max do so at the expense of their fun. (You can have fun while min/max’ing, but as soon as it’s no longer fun, you should probably try to find a way to have fun.))

If people want to be as efficient as possible, that’s fine. What matters is that you have fun.

Considering the buff gets stronger the more floors you go through (starts at 1% every minute, next floor is 2% every minute, the floor after is 3%, etc.), it definitely feels way too punitive.

I was one of the people that was incredibly happy that Torghast was more about strategy than speed - For the past 4 expansions, all of the more challenging dungeon content involved time constraints in one way or another. Not being pressed for time for once was a massive sigh of relief. Before this last build, me and my husband streamed on Wowhead our two premade character struggling to get past the couple levels of Torghast and we were calmly planning every single pull and it was a blast, the most fun I’ve had with dungeon content since Mists of Pandaria and the first iteration of Challenge Modes.

I get that you need to stop people from doing crazy stuff like waiting for Bloodlust every pull, but at the same time, it is way too punitive in the current iteration. They are doing some things in the right direction when it comes to increasing difficulty without the need for timers (death counter lasting for the entire run rather than per floor, for example, great change), but the timer as it is right now is incredibly punishing for people wanting to take their time to just go through the pulls.

Maybe make Bloodlust effects be usable only once per floor?

9 Likes

Well, the reason why this can’t be a solution is because if you die on the floor after using Bloodlust, now you won’t have Bloodlust for the next attempt. Without clearing the floor, you won’t have Bloodlust again. You strategy changes from “Use lust if we need it” to “Do use lust until we know we cannot do it without it”

If you die on a boss on Mythic+ right now, you won’t be able to use Bloodlust for another 10 minutes, so you face a similar choice - Either try again without lust or wait the 10 minutes to try again with lust and fail the key in 90% of the cases.

Losing Bloodlust would be a punishment for bad execution. Having your damage reduced or damage taken increased over time is a punishment for not being timely. These don’t compare.

4 Likes

Right, but you can use it again in M+… you cannot use it again if you limit to once per floor. It’s more comparable to a raid where you cannot lust on a boss until next reset. I think that’s a bit extreme.

Fractured Forces is awful. It is a mere annoyance that means you can never AFK mid floor, and does not increase difficulty in any meaningful way. The mobs are nonelite and trivial to kill, but they do enough damage to kill you if you are inattentive. They also spawn much closer than 1 minute apart, I was getting them after 20 seconds out of combat.

If you want to encourage people to wear depends for a solo Torghast run, this is a great way to do it. It would have precisely ZERO effect on difficulty for a 5man unless everyone AFKd at the same time mid floor.

1 Like

Just cleared the new Twisted Corridors as Disc Priest. It was so mindlessly easy it was bordering on boring. Previously I would spend hours trying to just get few a couple of floors on heroic, and whilst it was frustrating it was challenging, enjoyable and forced me to use all my abilities.

In this iteration I legit used Purge The Wicked for about 90% of my casts, after like 5 floors I felt invincible.

I do like some of the anima powers and combos you can build (purge the wicked dot increase + heal upon mob dying to purge the wicked, or the increased SwD dmg by 5% every time you use it + the SwD charge on maw rat death + the extra spawning mawrats on mind control). However none of these combos mattered because as soon as I got the “deals 60% health instantly and heal it back over time” power everything bar bosses was a 1 shot.

I cant comment on the new affixes because I didnt even notice them because everything melted.

I honestly think a large part of the problem is our amount of health. I had fort giving me 35% , plus about 8 obleron endurances, plus another 60% max health from the Superior endurance power, plus around 50% from the increased health on maw rat death. Nothing posed a challenge as they could barely whittle down my health bar.

At least if you maintain your health - it will be more dangerous to chain pull an entire floor because a couple of stray hits could kill you. It’s fine that healing and damage increase, but I think health/dmg reduction/shield increases trivialise everything if this will be the difficulty that it will be released at.

Alternatively just tune it higher.