FEEDBACK: Torghast, Tower of the Damned

Some Torghast feedback as a monk player (MW main and WW off-spec for most solo content). I’ve done all the introductory runs to the tower and a couple of solo runs afterwards, both in dps and healer spec.

While the content looks promising I do have some concern about its long-term replayability and interest. Looking back at Horrific Visions, the fun part was about discovering it and progressing through it weeks after weeks. But once you reached the difficulty limit and could farm the 5-masks runs, it quickly lost its fun and just became a chore that most of us got rid of every weekly reset. Since Torghast looks like an enhanced version of HVisions, I worry it might follow the same path. The introductory runs were cool and fun because they felt new, but they were really too easy. The couple of layers that I did afterwards were a little bit more difficult, but I hope that the higher ones will bring some actually real challenges with the appropriate rewards. (Which means not just pets and transmog, but also some extra currency or materials, flasks, potions or whatever). If Torghast is meant to be a rogue-like experience it cannot just end up being reduced to casual runs or chores and farming runs, especially if the feature wants to remain relevant for the whole expansion.

My other concern would be about doing solo runs as a healer spec. While I only did a couple of runs as a solo mistweaver, it never felt like the experience was suited for such a spec, nor were the anima powers. It felt like I had less choices for the anima powers, less synergies and less possibilities. It was still possible though and not really difficult on the lower layouts thanks to some generic anima powers that just blew everything up (like the mawrats explosions), but it wasn’t very enjoyable. I expected more anima powers that would enhance or shift some of my spells to have different effects and thus new purposes. Like the Corrosive Dosage that makes Vivify pulse for damage when you use it. That one was great but it just disappears after one single use… which makes it extremely bad. (hopefully it is just a bug). One very weird and undesirable synergy is the Elethium anima powers. I had the one that gives 25% haste but -75% healing on a MW. The haste is great for more dps, but now I heal less than a damage dealer while still dealing less damage than one. Yep, never pick that one…
In the end I can just respec to WW, have the normal Torghast experience and I’ll be fine. But with the system of anima powers in place there’s a real opportunity to make every spec and role relevant in this type of content that would normally be unfriendly to some. At the moment I fear that even in a group the powers you gain as a mistweaver in Torghast will not be engaging enough to make one run feel different than another.

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I really like Torghast as solo content, it’s a great system. I’m a little disappointed in the Priest powers, though. There seems to be pretty much no powers at all that are specific to certain specs, they’re all powers that target class-wide abilities. I’d like to see some Shadow-specific ones that make me feel really powerful. Right now, most of the Priest ones feel like they buff survivability, which is something that I am not struggling with in the slightest. And even then, the design choices seem odd.

For example, take Schaden Fluorite (love the name, by the way). When Shadow Word: Pain expires, heal up everyone for 10% of their health. I can’t think of a single scenario where this would be useful. As Shadow, I don’t really want to let my dots drop, and with a 16 duration, I am very rarely finding situations where it would drop anyway. And when it does drop, it’s a measly 10% health; I have constant self-healing from Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch, healing cooldowns in Vampiric Embrace, Desperate Prayer, and Mindgames (specific to Venthyr but most covenant abilities offer healing utility), and if I need to, Shadowmend spam. So for this to be useful, I would need to desperately need healing (but only a little bit) at the exact moment my SW:P would fall off. It also goes completely counter to another power, Painwheel, which increases the duration of SW:P and makes it less likely for the heal to go off (also, the extra duration from that isn’t really useful either).

There are a plethora of powers that buff my Psychic Scream and Mind Control, but that doesn’t feel very good or powerful. Several others buff my PW:Fortitude, giving me more health, which is handy but also boring, and others buff PW:Shield, giving me even more unnecessary survivability.

The only ones that feel exciting and powerful are Catharstick (it might not be worth playing around too much, but one-shotting the boss with it is super satisfying), Scales of Trauma (again, a little annoying to play around, but satisfying to spend it on a big Mind Blast hit), and the one that makes Power Infusion cause your Mind Blasts to be instant and have no cooldown. Horrific Dictionary is good too, the passive int bonus from casting Word spells is great. The rest barely impact damage and none of the affect Shadow-specific abilities.

I’m completely with you on what you have there (MW solo run), and I’d like to expand a bit. The biggest issue I had was a lack of an interrupt. There’s so many interrupt or (almost) die mechanics that make some enemies an absolute slog that pretty much rely on stun->cc->ToD to survive (before the anima snowball). At about 150 ilvl without interrupts and in unavoidable AoE pulls, I almost couldn’t do anything but self heal until enemies stacking power buff eventually killed me. Oh, and stacking power while CC’d. I hate this.

Without making any sweeping changes, I think healers especially need to be able to lock in 1-3 anima powers from any rare or lower power right at the start, and include a generic interrupt power as one of the options. Seriously, having a 2nd interrupt trait pop up for any role would be pretty cool and in line with the limit breaking themes of a lot of these powers.

As a final thought, there is hope for MW if you can stack SCK radius traits, jumping trait, and SCK lasso trait. With generic damage traits to back it up, you can recreate Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon anytime, anywhere, and with any number of unwilling participants.

I lied, one more thing can be done for MW. Fix the TP trait so it doesn’t launch you at your target, and let each duplicated hit add to Teachings of the Monestary. 2 of those, and you can TP->BoK freely. With the cleave BoK trait and how common that and TP are, you can pretty reliably have some functional and smoothed out damage rotations.

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The intro runs seem a bit much for something that will presumably be done in a big chunk. Demon Hunter powers, particularly Vengeance are fun. My favorite is the one that reduces the cooldown on infernal strike to ~1.5 seconds.

Paladin seems extremely strong, with very synergistic powers. It can be a slow start, but I’ve gone through layer 8 Twisting Corridors solo without a single death as Protection. Prioritizing the free 30 sec. Avenging Wrath can quickly make it last long enough to finish the floor, especially if the 4 sec. extension from Hammer of Wrath is picked up. Then there’s a power to give HoW 4 charges and a common one for 60% damage boosts, a multiplier to the effect of Avenging Wrath itself, free Seraphim making you better at everything…

I guess I shouldn’t complain. It’s fun to run around flinging 100k hammers. I just hope there’s eventually a layer where enemies have enough health for that to be meaningful.

With this week’s update to the Shadowlands Beta, we’re kicking off a test of some special events for Torghast, and we have them set on a daily rotation. The first Anima Hoard you discover on a run will have unique choices that help define the rest of your run.

The events include:

  • Beasts of Prodigum: Your first Maw power chest allows you to gain control of a powerful Maw beast that fights alongside you during your run. Subsequent Maw powers you receive in this run have a chance to modify the beast and grant it special abilities.
  • Chorus of Dead Souls: Your first Maw power chest allows you to assume the form of a Deadsoul Chorus, granting you special abilities. While in this form, your party members can right-click you to join your form and cast on the move. Subsequent Maw powers enhance your Deadsoul Chorus form in a variety of ways.
  • Unbridled Darkness: Your first Maw power chest can grant you a vial of darkness that you can activate. Using it turns your screen completely dark and you are unable to see your surroundings. While under this effect, you gain large combat bonuses. Subsequent Maw powers enhance your combat bonuses or modify the darkness.

Please let us know what you think of these as they come around in the Beta!

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Been testing Torghast on a bunch of different classes and specs and I am having a lot of fun with the different interactions of anima powers with my baseline spells and rotation.

Feedback:
Tarragrue’s design is very nice and size does make him an intimidating enemy however, I just wish that he had a nice announcement (dialogue) to acknowledge this huge threat to your run is going to spawn/has spawned instead of text. (Constructive Feedback)

The timer for him to spawn is very nice, giving you a period of time to plan how to navigate further on the floor while trying to cause little problems. (Positive Feedback)

Tarragrue is such a powerful enemy in the run and one of the more threatening minions of the jailer but it is unfortunate that he just simply spawns in existence in the map instead of having a cool animation of him coming into the floor. I do not know if it can be done but would be nice to have an animation. Though a lot of players might not want to be standing close to his spawn just to see an animation. (Constructive Feedback)

When Tarragrue spawns you know you need to move through the floor quickly but sometimes the floors are not open (open - less walls, more open world feel). This means judging how far the Tarragrue is from you is hard in narrow floors with a lot of turns. Simply a skull icon on the players map might assist in the player gauging how much time they have left before he is upon them. (Constructive Feedback)

These special event anima powers recently introduced are very interesting. I have only tested the Chorus of dead souls in a solo run and it was interesting.

Picking up this anima power (Chorus of dead souls) at the start of my run caused a very large portion of my anima powers to revolve around Chorus of dead souls, taking priority over other anima options. Aka often I will get 2 or 3 options out of my anima orb impacting my Chorus rather than my baseline kit. This was a little upsetting as I would either have a less powerful dk that I would be wanting to develop or have a different form that I would play majority in the run making my character pointless in being a dk or druid etc.

This increase in Chorus of dead soul anima options might be simply for testing purposes.

In terms of the power level of the Chorus of dead souls it seems to be a weak option at the beginning of the run compared to players just choosing a different anima power but becomes very powerful towards the end of your run if you invest in it.

Feedback: I do enjoy the concept of this event power you can get at the start of your run and if the chance to have future anima orbs just full of powers about the Chorus (or similar power) is reduced a bit in live I think it will give players an nice option to either still invest in it or have it as a fall back option when there is no good anima choice (similar to phantasma).

Chorus of Dead Souls is pretty weak if you’re on your own. Even getting the (generous) bonuses along the way doesn’t feel like it increases its power enough to make it worth taking over other alternatives - by the time you start getting powerful, you realise you would have been WAY more powerful by then by taking conventional powers.

On my priest on the Torghast realm, I am doing the questline to get into Torghast to be able to test these updates and the quest “Into Torghast” is broken. The Portal that you normally click on is not able to be interacted with and I just tried running through it, and that did not work.

I also abandoned the quest and picked it back up and no change.

Can’t test Torghast until this is fixed and I can get in.

Unbridled Darkness is really cool. It is actually powerful enough to be worth using. You make a big sacrifice and you actually can feel the power you gain from it. I hope this doesn’t get nerfed. As long as this stays as an option during the special event for it and people are not forced to play every run with Unbridled Darkness, I think this is a fine addition to Torghast.

Unbridled Darkness is kinda fun, but I feel like it should be ALMOST dark, so you can just barely see. The anima power that buffs the duration is wasted most of the time because you dont want to move around too much and fall off a ledge. As a warrior I was able to charge to some enemy packs while it was black, but after that, I was just standing around waiting for the timer to run out. I suggest changing to to a tight fog of war aura.

Yeah, like Kil’Jaeden

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Beast of Prodigum
I chose the maw beast Valioc. The maw beast for this event feels pretty weak overall. Every time I could choose a power for the maw beast I did. Most of the powers don’t seem that useful. I was getting a lot of different ones to increase the maw beast’s health, hp regen, or movement speed, many of them increased movement speed as different powers. There needs to be more impactful powers for the maw beast. At the end of my run my maw beast had 2 Collar of Teeth powers and 1 Hungering Anima power, so it was doing 150% extra damage. Even that didn’t seem better than if I would have just replaced all those powers spent on it to further increase the power of my actual character. For the final boss of the layer it did 17% of my overall damage and for the whole run it did 13% of my overall damage. Just doesn’t seem like a big enough impact to invest so many powers into it and a lot of the time the only options were powers that only affected the maw beast.

Beasts of Prodigum -

did Twisted Corridors with both doggos, lvl 4 then lvl 8 with each. they just arent worth the anima cells. the initial investment for the 30% haste or the aoe silence are nice but i pumped 30~40 powers out of the 80 or so you get going up the Corridors, into them and the best thing they could do was die, explode, be about 10~15% of my overall damage, and that’s about it. this was at all levels. not worth the investment past the initial having them, and even then id reconsider that because id rather have my class options instead.

likely the main issue is their low starting health. 2k isnt a good starting point when their hard hitter is based on their max health. not to mention they’re dead more than they’re alive cuz the tiniest cleave knocks them out of the fight. so you’d prob want to increase their base health by a decent factors to get them rolling better, their base auto by a LOT, and maybe do like hunter pets and reduce their incidental aoe damage taken so i can get reasonable uptime with them.

I am having SO MUCH FUN with Chorus of Dead Souls, it’s almost enough to make me overlook the fact that it’s a vehicle and we can’t rebind the hotkeys. It means I’m clicking instead of pressing buttons, but still, it’s a neat change!

(Please, please give us a native way to change vehicle control keybinds. Not all of us can easily use keys 1-5. My tendinitis means I have to use an ergonomic keyboard with the keys in separate wells, and I literally can’t press 1-5, Q-T, A-G, and Z-B with my right hand, nor can I easily use WASD for movement.)

Edit to add: I should mention I’m ridiculously overgeared (ilevel 188) and only doing the first layer because I keep having to go AFK, so the enemies I’m fighting aren’t exactly challenging. I might feel differently about Chorus of Dead Souls if I were on a higher layer.

I’m just guessing here, but it seems that if you go heavy into these powers, you should always buy Raveous Animal Cells from the Brokers, to ensure you get compatible anima powers. The Brokers don’t sell anima powers for any of these specials.

However, I’m not a theorycrafter.

Are these special power abilities affected by, for example, the haste and mastery powers you can buy from the brokers?

Edit: Twisting Shadows allows me to go places I can’t reach with Door of Shadows. Is this intended?

For example, in the Soulforges-style levels, there’s a lava room with a bridge across the middle and rock spires to either side. Some of those spires have anima vases. I can’t Door of Shadows up onto the spires, even with multiple jumps, but I can use Twisting Shadows to reach the highest anima vases in just two casts.

Beasts of Prodigum

Largely irrelevant to the run except that it denied you anima powers for yourself. Tested with a couple of classes and as a BM Hunter it made zero difference, as a Warrior or Warlock I felt it just limited my power since so many anima choices were geared towards the beast rather than to any of my character’s builds.

Chorus of Dead Souls

I cannot overstate how much I hated this. The vehicle was both weaker (did less damage) and squishier (took more damage) than my base template characters. It also took all of the anima power options meaning I wasn’t running Torghast with my chosen character, but as a vehicle. The experience to me was like a very bad world quest that I had to do, but taking much more time. The faster movement speed was nice, but that was offset by the mobs taking longer to kill.

Overall, I will skip these entirely if they go live, I consider them boring, unimaginative gameplay. You (Blizz) would do better to allocate your resources towards fixing all the problems that we are giving you in feedback.

I found the Chorus of Dead Souls to be awkward. It was powerful, but not in a fun way. It seemed like the optimal strategy was to stack up the -25% damage taken power, run to where I needed to go, and then press 2 until the enemies following me went away. Occasionally 3, since it healed for tens of thousands at a time with minimal investment. Then 4 to maintain the critical buff.

Incidentally, is Ghost Wolf supposed to persist while in Chorus form? Because those move speed boosts really add up. The Spirit Wolf talent also became a very powerful (but again, boring) mobility and survivability enhancement.

Chorus of Dead Souls has me really concerned. It’s not fun, and awkward to use. I want to go into Torghast as the class of my choice, not a Vehicle. The fact that it incredibly dominates a majority of the powers on the run makes it even worse. It got incredibly powerful, but I was still just a vehicle. I will avoid this power entirely.

If you’re going to stick to your guns on it, then swap the cooldown from the bolt to the AOE. Remove the Damage Reduction Powers, and maybe it would be a good start.

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Torghast has been extremely fun recently with the addition of the addition of the I’d call run altering Anima Powers (Beasts of Prodigum, Chorus of Dead Souls, etc). I have just 2 quick suggestions to help increase my enjoyment of using them.

Beasts of Prodigum: I would find these much more interactive and fun if we were given a pet bar even if it was just a /pet attack and their passive abilities. I find them standing around not attacking, attacking random targets that I’m not on, or I fail to see them use abilities on a consistent basis. A simple pet bar would alleviate all the problems that I have, as I would be able to track their cooldowns, and allow me to force the beast to attack my target or just attack in general. Just to reiterate, I’m not asking for us to be able to command the beast to use an ability, I would just like to be able to see when they do, or how long till they’re able to again, and make the beast attack if it is bugged out.

Chorus of Dead Souls (solo play): I’m thoroughly enjoying the break from my normal class game play, however, with Anima powers like Soulburst Charm, I find myself swapping in and out of the form quite often, leading me to wanting a key-bind option for entering the form similar to the one there for exiting it. Something similar to all the other zone buffs from WoD-through BFA; have the button in the center, but allow players to drag it onto their bars as well to remove it from the screen.

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