FEEDBACK: Torghast Empowered Bar

Over the last few days, we’ve made several tweaks and fixes to the new Empowered mechanic in Torghast on the Chains of Domination PTR. With today’s new build, we’re testing that anew.

Please leave any feedback you have on Torghast, especially the Empowered bar and how it feels, in this thread after you’ve experienced it in a fresh Torghast run on the PTR.

Thank you very much!

It’s impossible to test layer 12 because the scaling is absolutely bonkers now. Floor 1 regular trash mobs have 30k+ hp and on Floor 2 they have 40-50k. The elites had almost 150k hp… I don’t know if this is because of the hardened debuff.

I didn’t even attempt to go beyond the 2nd floor entrance because it was absolutely dangerous to pull more than 3 things at a time because everything hits so hard as well. The Empowered npcs are nuts as well… at 3 stacks a mawsworn guard was meleeing me for almost 10k.

Last week I could clear an entire floor of torghast in the amount of time its taking me just to clear a room now. I don’t remember how much hp things had last week, but it’s at least 2-3 times more on the trash.

I activated Empowered and didn’t even notice a buff or anything. I actually had no clue what it did and it didn’t last that long. It also takes a long time to build up the empowered bar and I only got it once a floor. Just like last week I was only saving it for the final boss on the floor.

I’m giving a huge thumbs down if you’re releasing torghast like this with difficulty ramped up to absolutely insanity. I can just imagine how much hp things on floor 4 have…

Torghast went from a 15-20 minute clear to probably taking over an hour now. I can’t give you an honest review of the new changes without having to force myself to fully clear layer 12.

See FEEDBACK: Torghast Empowered Bar

The scaling of enemies on the PTR was way too generous on previous builds. We’re wearing 226 gear on the PTR. World Quest Andys will be wearing 236 ilvl gear as the patch progresses, and M+/Mythic Raiders will be wearing 252. On top of that, you may not even be wearing set bonuses on the PTR currently, which will become active in Torghast.

I would be extremely disappointed if you could just 5-gem Layer 12, the hardest layer and the hardest solo prestige challenge of 9.1, with terrible gear the day the patch came out.

Now, I’m not saying the scaling might not a bit off, I haven’t tried the new PTR build yet, but I disagree that people should just be able to plow through layer 12 with current gear.

They did jam up the difficulty because I’m looking at the recommended item level and layer 10 is 233, layer 11 is 237, and layer 12 is 252 compared to only being 230 on layer 12 last build.

Making layer 12 require Mythic level gear is a bit wut. I’m sorry, but this feels like a really bad change because of how Soul Cinder gating is going to work. So most of us are only going to be stuck grinding 60-110 soul cindersfor at least 2 months?

When the expansion launched we were clearing layer 8 at iLvl 184.

Since it’s a feedback thread, just adding my (usual) vote that I like the mobs on high layers to be super hard, as long as I’m not penalized for taking my time and pulling wisely.

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Layer 12 5-gem is supposed to be the equivalent of Layer 8 Twisting Corridors, it literally represents the final challenge of single-player content / small-group content in the patch.

In terms of soul cinders, Layer 9 looks incredibly trivial, Layer 10 is also going to be fairly easy for players starting the patch, and even Layer 11 will be cleared by World Quest Andys. Why is it so much to ask for the hardest single player content to actually be hard? And why can hard content not award power? Why do you believe hard content can only ever be cosmetic (unless it comes from a raid)?

450 Cinders a week vs 510 Cinders is really not a big difference like, at all. The ultimate solo challenge is literally only increasing the rate of legendary acquisition by a meager 13%. That’s a pittance.

Honestly, this discussion is beyond the scope of the feedback Blizzard is looking for. They’re not going to make the changes you want. Blizzard has literally explained in two separate interviews that the entire point for why they made this change was that they could create a Torghast progression system where you didn’t earn everything right away but it wouldn’t feel so bad when you lost. That’s literally the entire point for what they did. It would literally defeat the point of all of their work if they just opened the whole thing up and gave out all of the Soul Cinders for free. The whole point of what they did, as they stated, was that so players could lose, walk away with some amount of Soul Cinders, and feel okay about the situation.

I think you’re mistaking Blizzard opening up Torghast in 9.0 because it felt awful for World Quest Andy to get BTFO’d and waste 45 minutes of his time with Blizzard agreeing with you that you’re entitled to maximum rate of rewards the second the patch launches. Again, this is beyond the scope of feedback they’re looking for so it’s really pointless to discuss their further, I just want to clarify to you, so you have some context for what Blizzard is doing.

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Blizzard disagrees. Not much else to say about this. They spent a bunch of time trying to make remake Torghast in a way that not everyone would win but people could still walk away and be happy. There’s roughly a 0% chance they go back on this design prior to launch, considering how much time they spent trying to make a system that allows people to lose and still walk away contented.

Also, I completely disagree with your 1-2 week timeline. Blizzard is going to be way more stubborn because they’re going to believe they “fixed” the issue - they’ll tell people to get better gear and to upgrade their tower upgrades. Maybe a month down the line they’ll nerf the scaling, once enough people starting getting 236 gear and start complaining that they can’t beat layer 12, but I would absolutely NOT expect anything to happen earlier than a month out.

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As for the difficulty of the mobs, it still seemed easy for me as i got a 265score 5gem in about 15mins not trying to go super quick and only in the exact same gear i have on live. However the empowered mechanic in the current form seems like a non factor and completely useless, it lasts about 22seconds but it gives not nearlly enough upsides for how long it takes to get. I could barely kill 3 good packs with the empowered buff before it was gone. I suggest reducing the amount of things to award the empowered bar and increasing the movespeed gained by a lot, at least from 30%-100% increase so in that short time you can actually get from pack to pack and actually kill enough mobs to give decent empowered score

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Ran through, and firstly it’s considerably faster now at 5 floors over 6 (more than one would believe a single level difference would make).

I would like to see a progress bar on floor% before I get to the end and head up, though. A couple floors I was sure I’d cleared but got like 98-99% on.

The empowered mechanic is a weird addition that I may just need to get used to. Is it more beneficial to save it as I go up on a floor unless there’s an emergency, or should I spend it soon as I can to start building back up? That may be a personal decision, but if it has an effect on floor credit/bonuses, it would sway how often I use it.

I’ll get more once I play through again.

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:+1:

This would be awesome. Clearly they have a way to calculate how much of a floor you cleared after-the-fact, so presumably they could calculate it on the fly using the same metric and pass that information to you. I hate second-guessing whether I killed all the rats or not.

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I ran layer 12 again today on my lunch break and it feels like the trash was nerfed down compared to yesterdays night run. I wasn’t being hit for 5k+ melee swings and was able to clear each floor on a layer 12. The last boss had 650k hp, but I was still able to beat them. Feels harder than last week, but not absolutely unforgiving like last night.

I do agree we need a progress bar showing your floor completion % because I’ve cleared floors and had 98% completion.

So in regards to Empowered. I was able to get it 2-3 times on each floor on my run through. It gave me +20% haste, +15% leach, +30% movement speed fully upgraded for like 20s and it says “gives bonus points”. I’m not sure exactly how many bonus points that’s supposed to be… we can’t track the numbers, nor do we know how much it takes to get 5 stars.

It should have some more oomf like more damage… more phantasma… big glowy aoe dmg…

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I’m still not fond of the 1s cast time, and it lacks a certain punch. It’d feel AWESOME if it was an instant cast that also did a small knockback and/or a brief stun in a wide radius, something really flashy to show that RAAAAHHHHH feeling of becoming empowered.

Guess what I’m trying to say I want it to feel like switching to 5th gear, hitting the nos, something like that.

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Stigma is total garbage and maw looks like a kindengardner made it what it take a day . peice here there our devs we have know dont listen to the players and force stuff we dont want to do fact . and nerf our charters ect. Blizzcon stated better drop were . another liar

Ye i forgot to say that the cast time especially not being able to do while moving, is just trash… maybe if you could move while casting it wouldn’t be the worst thing but atm it’s just a horrible design choice

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This, I want to know the floor % beforfe reaching the portal… hate when I cross the portal and read: 90% floor completed, and I’m like “what? what did I miss down there?”

also the empowered bar goes down too quickly when fighting a portal guard. Make it last at least 45 seconds (it would be a great final power in the knowledge talent tree).

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Overall the changes make being empowered feel way less important. To the undergeared or casual players this might be great because they werent able to keep it going anyway, but to any geared or high end players that were juggling the buff over several floors and then being rewarded with powers that were being used while empowered, this feels bad. The current iteration of empowered doesnt feel like anythign important and all the powers that are on when empowered are just worthless because you are never empowered but for a minute a floor if that.

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I still feel the animations on the empowered bar don’t feel “oomphy”, and the time to activate doesn’t feel good. I’m almost in the mindset that just a big Arbiter-like tactical nuke would be a better feeling from the ability, big damage and aoe stun.

Instead of costing the full bar, just costing the activation cost, so “overage” is applied to next activation – like overprovisioning maelstrom weapon or old rogue anticipation talent.

The last Box perk which pulses damage can be changed to the current “Empowered” effect instead after using the damage ability…