Feedback: Shamans

For Elemental Shaman, is Tempest’s current lack of interaction with stats or any of the talents which effect Lightning Bolt intentional? As it stands at the moment, some players are recommending that Elemental Shamans should instantly cancel Tempest casts because it is a DPS loss over a plain Lightning Bolt.

Given this skill is the lynchpin of the entire Hero spec, that is a very bad thing.

5 Likes

Farseer from a Restoration perspective,

  • Call of the Ancestors suggestion, Please make it have some interaction with Undulation, I’m flustered already with keybinds and the intensity healing especially in M+, I do not need another button/weak aura to keep track off. I hate the idea of being forced into Unleashed Life especially in M+ where I don’t even take it.

Solution/Reasoning, Every 2nd proc of Undulation calls an Ancestor to your side for 6 sec. Whenever you cast a healing or damaging spell, the Ancestor will cast a similar spell. This gives players especially in M+ an alternative way without requiring Unleash Life if they choose too, or even in Raid if they prefer to not run Unleash Life at all, let the player have choices.

  • Final Calling suggestion, Ancestors should cast “Hyrdobubble”, when a party member drops under 35% HP, if not they’ll cast it on expiration on an injured party member.

Solution/Reasoning, With Ancestors casting on the player that essentially needs it sooner than later is a huge quality of life change, I need the shield now not in 6 seconds time, this just creates a better window/buffer time to heal players in need and reduce over healing aswell. When the Ancestor expires I may not even need the Shield or a player who did might be dead.

I think these 2 simple changes, creates better player choice rather then forcing mandatory talents that increase keybinds and QoL when comes to utilising the Shield.

Also will we be seeing and adjustments coming to the class talent trees and spec trees for Shamans as a whole?.

I think a little communication would go a long way to quiet concerns a lot have raised.

Edit: Shamans as a whole needs a proper group/raid buff, we need something to help us get a position in keys/raids, Lust is too common now to be the only reason. Shamans desperately need something.

Suggestions,

  • Blessing of Thunderaan, 3-5% Haste
  • Blessing of Neptulon, 3-5% Mastery
  • Elemental Guidance, 3% Haste, 3% Mastery

Something on theme, unique to Shamans, we need something else other then Lust.

5 Likes

It’s currently underneath (not below, but physically beneath) the Focused Insight/Refreshing Waters node, but it’s still there and you do still need to spend a point on it. The only real way to do this is using a starter build and removing points around it (so it stays selected). Seems like a bug from migrating the live tree to beta which happened early Alpha.

2 Likes

Blizzard,

I’ve played a Shaman for the majority of my time in WoW since the release of MoP. I’m honestly saddened by how boring the Shaman Hero Trees are when compared to some of the other classes. Where is the fantasy? Where is the awe-factor? Where is the creativity? It doesn’t exist if you’re a Shaman, apparently.

Stormbringer - can you please tell me why this is even a thing? If I’m Elemental and you’ve let me choose throughout the Elemental tree which element to focus on (which I LOVE because options are cool) WHY would you offer a hero tree that FORCES you to do one element? It makes zero sense.

With my Shaman I choose to focus on Fire/Frost. I’ve chosen options on live that let me exclusively use those elements and no lightning because I don’t enjoy that playstyle. When I unlock my hero talents - the Stormbringer talents are almost entirely useless to my playstyle. Out of 10 points, only ONE point has any effect on my ideal playstyle.

I think it would be much better if “Stormbringer” was revamped into something like Eternalist (since Primalist now has negative connotations as of Dragonflight) where a Shaman can further specialize in their chosen element be it Fire, Frost, or Electricity or choose a new one. Give more options for all three. It could be as simple as:

[Eternal Might] (main talent) - every 400 Maelstrom spent replaces your next Lightning Bolt(Tempest), Frost Shock(Glacier), or Lava Burst(Meltdown) with an improved version powered by the Eternals. This version deals X damage to your target, and additional damage to all enemies within 8 yards of the target. This talent could also simply give you a choice of which element you’d like to specialize in and it would transform all future choices to that element.

[Unlimited Power] - same as live.

[Eternal Attunment] - Increases the critical strike chance of your chosen element by 10% and the damage of your chosen element by 5%.

[Primal Grasp] - Your chosen element’s critical strikes reduce the target’s movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds.

etc.

But please don’t let it go live as it is. Don’t limit the choices of people who don’t want to be a Lightning Shaman. There are quite a few of us!


And I know what someone will inevitably say. “Well then just do Farseer!” but the issue is (A) Why should I be forced into a single hero tree path? And (B) Farseer is SUPER BORING.

Farseer revolves around these silly ancestors. The ancestors that randomly appear, last a few seconds, and from what I’ve experienced are pretty whelming. Not under, not over, just plain ol’ whelming. They’re honestly not interesting. Why not have them appear as famous NPC Shamans? Would be much more interesting.

Honestly, I think Farseer should be reworked entirely. The premise is not exciting enough. But even with how boring Farseer is, I feel like I’m stuck with it if Stormbringer goes live…which stinks. -_-

Totemic is fun and very useful though. So kudos on that one. Have literally nothing bad to say about it at all.

3 Likes

Most people in here are talking about mechanical changes so I’m going to bring up some fantasy recommendations to bolster what it means to be a Shaman.

  1. Increase the size of our totems by over 100%. At the moment, totems are pretty small and kinda just look like tiny, meaningless objects on the ground. If our totems were larger in size, it would create more group recognition that there is a class in the party with vast utility. I think that others would sorta feel the Shaman presence more.

  2. Please give us more Hex variants. When I think of Voodoo magic and the sort, one key animal that comes to mind is a regular 'ol chicken. How in the heck do we not have ‘Hex: Chicken’? Please expand on this.

  3. Give us a glyph that grants the spell effect/s of the old ‘Chain Heal’. The golden color, along with the jingle, feels more Troll-ish or witch doctor-y.

  4. Please let us transmog ‘Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros’ over DW. It is no secret that HoR is THE Enhancement weapon. It feels really bad seeing Warglaives of Azzinoth, TFury, Shadowmourne, etc everywhere in the game when we’re not able to wield the legendary that was ours. I’m not asking for 2-hand mechanics, I just think this should be a special exception to the current transmog restriction.

  5. Significantly buff the spell effect of ‘Tidecaller’s Guard’ and our other weapon imbues. Maybe the OG spell effects need to be completely redone… we should look like the elements are coursing through us. For something like ‘Windfury Weapon’, our MH should look like a tiny storm. For ‘Flametongue Weapon’, there should be significantly more fire or lava. It would be cool if the character’s entire arms were sorta augmented with elemental effects depending on the imbue/s present.

  6. Let us (sorta) customize our elementals. I think it’s fair to say that people prefer certain models over others… please make this happen.

  7. Let Shamans turn into a ball of lightning because reasons.

  8. For the love of all that is good and holy, put Shaman Tank in the game. I doubt it can happen this expansion but please include it in the next. Shaman tank has been wildly successful in SoD. Also, now that we’re allied with the Earthen Dwarves, it would match in fantasy because they have a strong connection with earth - they could very easily share their teachings with us.

  9. Tortollan Shamans when? We helped millions of turtles make it to the water. They owe us. Big time.

  10. I know I said that I wouldn’t include mechanical suggestions but please make ‘Lightning Shield’ cool. Give it an interaction somewhere.

  11. Tying back to the hex variants, give us glyphs that make our spells look like they belong to witch doctors. Maybe ‘Earthgrab Totem’ could look like a spider web and encase them or maybe we can have that one thing that will turn our ‘Healing Rain’ into ‘Rain of Frogs’… and that’s already in the game!

  12. Please revisit Shamans conjuring elemental weapons like our artifacts. This was really cool - I think everyone would like even more!

  13. For Totemic: How about instead of dropping ‘Searing Totem’ we can get it reskinned as a ‘Serpent Ward’?

  14. Lastly, please… PLEASE… let our spell effects compete with Warlocks, Mages, Priests… the art team went all out with theirs and ours just kinda stayed the same. Beef up the visuals for us.

10 Likes

We’ve just sent a hotfix to the Beta to resolve that.

13 Likes

Ascendance needs to be reworked into something that also works for lightning build. I hate building fire time and time again. It’s so unsatisfying and boring. Give me lightning and big electrified shocks.
Moreover with the addition of augmentation, a spin off shaman support spec from enhancement or convert totemic into totem buffing spec would be a great way of going forward to having another support spec rather than evoker getting the only support role in content.

9 Likes

the workaround i found for that for now is to pick the “starter build” and it populates the node giving you windfury, you can then tweak the rest of the tree. stupid bug but it is what it is

1 Like

So testing out Stormbringer and that Spec talent tree for Elemental. I figured out you would just skip most of the spenders cost reduction for maelstrom as you are trying to hit that spending of 400 maelstrom as fast of possible. I think that wasn’t intended since IIRC 2 or 3 nodes would reduce that cost of our maelstrom spenders. So you would just completely bypass them to push you into Tempest faster.

And yes I do know that the Tempest spell isn’t working with Surge or any of the modifiers yet, which should be worked on.

2 Likes

Making windfury weapon baseline was the one good thing that I thought had been done for enhancement shaman in TWW. =(

Kind of ridiculous how the elemental build in PvP has to weapon swap to put flametongue on both because windfury weapon costs more talent points than the build can afford…

2 Likes

Primordial wave’s cool down still needs to be reduced by feral spirits. The cool down being so long and not reducible by any other abilities makes it too predictable for pvp. As soon as you use it, you’re telling the enemy team cc me now

2 Likes

As much as I’m against having to use Lightning in Ele, I am also against people who like to use Lightning build being forced to use Fire/Frost.

Blizzard needs to work on this.

4 Likes

I have played elemental since I first started this game in Shadowlands, and am concerned about elemental shaman’s lack of appeal in raiding content. For other raiders to be excited to have me (for reasons other than just high damage), I need to bring something to the table that is impactful.

The most obvious solution would be to give shamans a raid buff. Alternatively, some kind of sweet utility could work, as long as it is helpful on many fights like death knight’s abomination limb.

Also please consider how to create parity between enhance and elemental. If you let enhance keep windfury totem, elemental shamans should receive a similar totem for casters. How about a totem based off spiritwalker’s grace that lets the whole raid cast while moving for a short time? I would like to see elemental shamans be invited to raids just as often as enhance shamans.

Finally shamans need more damage reduction abilities which are activated and prevent damage before it happens.

  • Nature’s protection from the stormbringer tree is ineffective as waiting on tempest can significantly impact your damage rotation

  • Ancestral’s Guidance helps too late after the damage event in some cases.

  • Re-applying Earth Shield as a DPS and using a global cooldown feels really bad.

  • Earth Elemental usually is only available once a raid fight.

My recommendation is for Astral Spirit to receive a second charge. There is precedent for this with evoker’s defensive.

Finally I would like to see talent trees and hero talent trees that encourage more mixing of different elements. When I think of Thrall in the latest cinematic, he is thinking about four different elements. That is the class fantasy! There is nothing wrong with making something like farseer where the focus is on fire, but there should be nodes present that encourage weaving lightning, ice, etc. into the rotation. I want to cast lightning bolts that then make my fire more powerful in a build like that.

Thank you for considering these suggestions. I absolutely love the class fantasy of elemental shaman but am discouraged that we have not received any updates as of yet regarding any talent changes for our class for the War Within.

10 Likes

Maybe I’m just reiterating what has been said (and by others now gone, hallowed be thy name) but a bit of communication stating “Hey Shamans! We have some changes coming to both class and spec trees that is a build or two out but stay tuned for them!” or “Hey Shamans! We think the trees themselves are fine and just need a bit of tuning to put them in a better place” would go a long way. At least in telling us something instead of generic “thx for feedback” when nothing has really been followed up on as far as I can see.

That said, the class tree and elemental trees could really use some tweaks. The capstones for the class tree just are so boring and do not feel like a capstone. 10% physical damage reduction from stoneskin totem is just nothing. Why not 20% physical or 10% all damage? Make it a capstone.

I play all 3 specs and while I do find resto and enhance fun I am finding elemental NOT fun lately. Lightning build while flashy is just clunky as all get out with Ice Fury just not being fun. Juggling electrified shocks and lightning rod just doesn’t feel right. The lava burst build (especially with DF tier set) has damage but it just feels wrong to prioritize Lava Burst over everything.

Elemental AOE is whole other bag of problems. Earthquake isn’t rewarding for a spender and does noodle damage even when stacking them and spamming them with Aftershock and Mountains Will Fall. Trying to spread flame shocks is archaic at this point but that was solved fairly well with enhance but elemental was left behind.

Then there’s the heavy push of Primordial wave in all 3 specs. While I like it in enhance, I despise it in resto and not a fan in elemental. I miss chain harvest and even vesper totem from shadowlands.

I am not a theory crafter, just a player trying to have fun and elemental isn’t it lately. Please look into elemental seriously.

Also, how about a node-share for Disease Cleansing totem with Poison Cleansing totem? Make it a choice for us. Simple things like this would be a little interesting.

One final thing - please throw us a bone in the visuals department. Ascendance is just so badly outdated yet you have a good template on how to update it - Dathea from DF Tier 1. It’s even in her name - Dathea, Ascended. Make it a glyph. Doesn’t have to be as flashy as the boss. Resto could be watery look, Elemental can be fiery and enhance airy (like the class mount).

Our elementals could use updates too - plenty of new Dragonflight models that could be thrown in as glyphs. How about a Bakar ghost wolf glyph? Druids got a smorgasbord of stuff with DF Tier 3 yet Shamans didn’t get anything with Tier 1.

9 Likes

I just hit (not crit, hit) a lightning bolt for 3,924,281 as enhancement.

we are so back.

What rework and design changes

39 Likes

Enhancement- Totemic Feedback
Had a brief 1hr window to test some spec stuff

Having to maintain the surging totem every 24s is just a miserable play experience, no real reason it can’t be zero cooldown and last 5 minute or at least 2 mins like Windfury. The only good reason I see is the capstone and that can just “regen” every 24s. The bad reason I see is to make the otherwise mostly useless totem talents in the class tree useful. It’s not going to make me take them because having to track and plonk down a totem every 24s is a non-starter, I can’t/won’t play totemic if that’s the playstyle. Only way I’d even attempt it is just tossing it in a macro so I don’t ever have to monitor it, which doesn’t say much for it’s design.

Having to take windfury totem to even be able to place it is very very VERY bad. Is there any other hero spec in the game that requires a talent to even use it’s main feature? I honestly thought the “Replaces windfury totem” was in reference to it giving the windfury aura so you couldn’t double dip. Knowing that you NEED windfury totem to even use the hero talent leaves me speechless. I cannot emphasize enough how awful this is. Idealy None of the hero talents should require any talents to function, totemic requires more than a few.

As expected it feels bad having 1/3-1/2 the totemic talents essentially worthless in either build simply because we don’t have the talent points to spare or because we never use those abilities in that build.

Surging totem only ticking every 6s feels like molasses. I’d rather it tick faster and do less damage. Having 6s ticks is just giving us more inconsistent damage and that is not what you want in PvE. You either want burst or fast consistent damage. Afterall 3s can be the difference between something dying or getting it’s cast off. You want things to die as fast as possible and 6s ticks ain’t doing that. Sure it makes for big tick numbers, but overall/avg damage is what gets things done.

I did not like Searing totem & Reactivity as much as I thought I would. I imagined shooting out lots of little fire balls, but that isn’t the case. The searing totems just don’t last long enough given the abilities that interact with reactivity. I mean Lava Lash, which you use to even spawn searing totem, is a 18s cooldown. This means that storm build will NEVER be able to use lava lash to activate reactivity because they don’t have Ashen Catalyst or hot hands to reduce it’s cooldown. Fire Nova is a 15s cooldown so you can use it once every 2 searing totems. The best bet is hailstorm and frost shock, best you can do is ~5s so once per totem. The only way to get multiple casts is Hot Hands, which further pushes us into RNG damage territory. So overall it’s really useless for storm and only useful for elemental when in hot hands. Otherwise it’s completely unnoticeable.

The rest is mostly passive stuff so it’s boring and not fun and comes down to tuning if it will be useful or not. If it were up to me a lot of these would get scrapped, especially the capstone.

11 Likes

Where are the Shamans changes they really need it. This radio silence from you guys is not good.

15 Likes

Pretty sure they meant those other classes.

We Ele shaman, just dont get the love.

7 Likes

I am currently concerned with the current state of Shaman, particularly Elemental, as I do like playing that spec. There were no changes to Elemental Shaman on Alpha. It is currently in a pretty bad spot on retail and in beta as well. The spec tree has a fair amount of 2 point nodes, and makes builds pretty rigid.

  • Icefury: Has no place in the spec. It is one of Two Talented frost spells. Frost shock in the class tree is needed to take Icefury in the Spec Tree. Two ice spells. Two talent points. And it is just for some filler. The ability doesnt fit in with the flow or playstyle of any ele builds and just has to be forced in there.

Two Builds, Two Hero Specs: No Choice. The Spec tree is cut in half between Fire build and Lightning build. Each has its own playstyle. Which is a good thing. There are some pathing issues, and an abundance of 2pt nodes that need to be addressed.

  • Stormbringer: Focused on Lightning and Lightning bolt. So this is the hero talent you take to spec the lightning build. The design behind it, just does not feel fun. You have to spend 400 Maelstrom to activate it. That is 5 Elemental Blasts, or 7 Earth Shocks. The talent tree also synergizes with lightning rod, which is a capstone talent. This also means you will path down the lightning side. The spec is based around Lightning Bolt Spam, but with Icefury, there is the talent electrified shocks. Which means you will use Icefury, then frost shock as a maintenance buff for 15% more nature damage. One Cast, One Instant then wait the GCD, just to activate a 9 second maintenance buff.

I just hope everyone understands how clunky this Spec/Hero Talent Combo is. You Cast Icefury Then frost Shock to activate a 9 sec debuff on the enemy. Then you cast 4 lightning bolts, then frost shock again. Then ele blast when you have the maelstrom. Or Focus on Aftershock, and Cast Earth shock then Lightning bolt for extra OL Procs. But thats pretty much it. No offensive CDs. Tempest doesnt change anything about the rotation. Just Keep up the Icefury Maintenance buff and spam LB and Dump Maelstrom.

  • Farseer: Fire Side. Spam Lava Burst. The issue is without S3 and S4 Tier, This spec doesnt work well, because it needs the cleave of the 4 Piece tier to function well. There is very little interaction here or choice. This Hero tree also requires you to spec deep into the class tree to take Nature’s Swiftness, so that you can then utilize the Hero Tree Capstone that Now becomes Ancestral Swiftness and summons and Ancestor (Only if you have talented into Nature’s Swiftness First. Otherwise it is just Nature’s Swiftness). I am not going to deep dive the other problems with this Hero talent tree, but it appears to rely largely on a tier set we are not going to have to function well in any type of AoE or Cleave Scenario. Or rather there is no AoE component to this tree. You can cast Stormkeeper, then Prim Wave, Then Chain Lightning as synergy. There is one node that buffs Earthquake 8%, but nothing that buffs Chain Lightning. And several that encourage Lava Burst Spam. So without the S3/4 Tier bonus, the spec is pretty much a single target spec.

Now that out of the way, these two Hero Talent Trees were moved to the Alpha very late in the alpha cycle. They were two of the last. Other Hero talent specs saw full reworks before these two went to the alpha. And with the Alpha being over and moving to beta very shortly after these were released, and the blue post letting the Shamans know that the design phase of these trees was done and they are moving on to tuning, it leaves a really bad taste. There was very little time to offer feedback on the trees. Limited testing time. And no iteration from the version that went to alpha to the version that went to beta. With some talents not yet implemented. It does not feel good.

Then there are the class and spec trees. Both have seen little to no iteration or updates during Dragonflight. Most other classes have gotten updates and full reworks. In some cases, a couple reworks. I wont dig into the disparity between Mage updates, changes and reworks and shaman. And it is radio silence on if anything is coming. Waited all alpha for something. Now we are to beta and it was just announced that Hunters are getting significant class/spec changes next week. This leaves Shamans with nothing. Nothing on the horizon. Especially Elemental Shaman. Their gameplay revolved around tier set bonuses, which forced you into one side or the other. The Hero talents change almost nothing about their gameplay and really just act as more mastery in both cases. And with the utter lack of AoE and Cleave on Farseer, that spec will have to do crazy single target to be worth anything.

And then there is the elephant in the room. Elemental Shamans are the only spec in the game, that does not bring a meaningful raid buff or raid CD to the game, by virtue of spec or class. And there has been nothing said on a development end to address that, or any other part of what I brought up.

It honestly feels like they are just punting the Shaman class to a later patch because they either, A: Ran our of time to do an overhaul. B: They dont have a clear direction they want the class/spec to go in. C: Both A and B.

25 Likes