Feedback: Shaman

Is there two Healing Stream Totem talents because taking both is supposed to give you 2 charges? Right now picking both doesn’t seem to do anything.

10 Likes

Discussing Enhancement specifically. Not a super-avid Enhancement main, but rather someone who’s been dabbling in it a bit lately out of sheer interest:

It’s very, very hard to get a grasp on how this spec’s actually supposed to play right now, not because the talents themselves are conflicting heavily with one-another (they aren’t, apart from one specific example), but because a large number of them flat-out do not work at the moment, at least during my testing.

The CDR on Feral Spirits from Witch Doctor’s Wolf Bones, everything about Legacy of the Frost Witch, the CDR portion of Primal Lava Actuators, and Enhancement’s version of Elemental Blast are all not working whatsoever during my testing. Moreover, Hot Hand procs are not resetting the cooldown on Lava Lash, which essentially means that using a Lava Lash and getting a proc right afterwards leaves you with what might’ve been an extremely powerful proc doing literally nothing whatsoever. Similar to Shadow Priest (a class that also has a huge amount of bugs, all from last build carrying over), I can’t really get a good feel for how good Enhancement feels right now simply due to how resource-starved the spec feels. I already reported them on the Alpha, but I figured I’d bring them up here.

Now, the Talent tree in general is an absolute banger with one odd exception that I’ll talk about later, and assuming everything plays as intended you have many very interesting and cool choices you could end up playing pending tuning on a few of them.

Let’s talk about the good stuff:

  • Legacy of the Frost Witch’s playstyle was beloved even back in the SL Beta, and it was a shame that Enhancement didn’t ever run this legendary because of how strong Doom Winds, Wolf Bones, and eventually PLA were. It’s back, and it’s in a legitimately good spot on this tree that allows Ascendance builds and the currently-popular Feral Spirits builds to play around with it. Now, this Talent just doesn’t exactly work at the moment, but I’m excited to eventually toy around with such powerful combos that Frost Witch enables. I’m super stoked to see this back and in such a nice spot on the Talent tree.

  • Alpha Wolf gives Feral Spirits some actual, noticeable AoE value. This was very needed and would in theory make this playstyle really cool to play, although with some bugs involving Wolf Bones it’s hard to say how strong this really is in the context of a full kit.

  • Doom Winds being its own button and not tied to Windfury Totem is also a welcome throwback to the Legion version, and it’s pretty easily-accessible to the point where I could take this and still be capable of running proper builds at max-level (although that can’t be tested on live due to the template characters starting at 60).

  • Having the choice between Primal Lava Actuators and Primal Primer for heavy funnel or a true ST focus is also a cool choice, and I’m glad PLA is also easily-accessible to allow for some nice build flexibility while not being a total shoe-in all the time due to the return of Primal Primer (which, pending tuning, could also be very strong).

  • The return of a good chunk of the Feral Spirits build Enhancement currently enjoys is welcome. It ain’t quite the same as the NF build with 4pc, Seeds of Rampant Growth, and Wolf Bones, but it’s still fundamentally solid and now comes with legit AoE value thanks to Alpha Wolf (and isn’t a total meme since it can theoretically provide solid enough funnel on its own due to huge Maelstrom generation and fast spending). It’s a fun build, it’s what got me interested in Enhancement in the first place, and it’s nice to see Wolf Bones make a return AND not be mutually-exclusive with Enhancement’s other awesome legendaries.

  • Primordial Wave and almost all of its functionality in cleave scenarios is back, with some welcome improvements by giving the ability Maelstrom generation as well. Enhancement has awesome funnel right now, so I’m glad the Necro Enhancement funnel niche is largely coming back.

The Not-So-Good:

  • Ascendance builds seem to heavily encourage Stormstrike spam at a glance, but that’s in addition to some Stormstrike-related Talents being hard to access by comparison. The tree goes for a Nature-heavy left side and a Fire/Frost-heavy right side initially, but then it flip-flops into being very Nature-heavy as it approaches Ascendance and very Fire/Frost heavy as it approaches the Primordial Wave stuff. The Stormbringer Talents and Elemental Assault are further to the left, while Ascendance is to the right. This is further compounded by…

  • Ascendance, which is inherently a Stormstrike-heavy build, requires you to take one of Hot Hand or Ice Strike to run it. This seems to go completely against what the point of Ascendance is, and seems like this cooldown and the capstones tied to it would make a bit more sense on the left side of the tree (closer to Stormbringer) than on the right side of the tree where it has to compete with two talents that encourage taking crucial GCDs away from Stormstrike and putting them into abilities that seem to favor more of a cleave/AoE sort of scenario. I know Hot Hand is the best ST option in the current row (and by a country mile in best-case scenarios, at that), but it also has tons of cleave/AoE value due to quickly spreading Flame Shocks and by just switching its path and Primordial Wave’s path around (and maybe Elemental Blast and Stormflurry around, too) these two different niches are much more defined by the Talent tree.

Some Possible Solutions to "the Ascendance Problem:"

Using this MS Paint example I tried piecing together, here’s a visual example of what I’m talking about as far as swapping Ascendance/Stormstrike talents around goes:

I’m not pretending that this is some truly-optimal Ascendance build or anything, but this is the sort of idea I had in mind with the description above. By swapping Ascendance with Primordial Wave - something I’d argue might make some sort of sense thematically - and Elemental Blast with Stormflurry - something else I think makes sense in this context - Enhancement can commit fully into running an Ascendance build without having an obligation to take a talent that might conflict with it like Hot Hand or Ice Strike while keeping them as options if someone does end up deciding to run Hot Hand. These exact talent choices with the current Enhancement tree don’t actually run into compatibility issues, either.

Maybe Sundering and Stormflurry could swap places instead and Elemental Blast stays where it is for more of a single-target focus? It also makes some sense thematically.

Swapping Hot Hand and Elemental Weapons (see image below; not mine) can also partially solve this problem since that allows Enhancement to access what seems to be an absolutely mandatory investment of two Talent points in an area that’s much less cumbersome to invest into:

Moreover, doing this allows Enhancement to run Ascendance builds without having to invest into a Talent that would take GCDs away from Stormstrike spam during Ascendance, while also putting Hot Hand in a relatively accessible area that also thematically makes sense (since it would require other Lava Lash-related Talents as a prerequisite).

That said, despite my criticisms of the tree, Enhancement’s spec tree is really, really well-done and the fact that the only major issue I have stems from not any individual Talent choices but rather where they are on the tree is a testament to just how excellent it is at its base. Once the bugs are ironed out the spec is already slated to be very interesting to play, and definitely a nice evolution from what I’d personally consider a pretty successful soft-rework in 9.2. But, again, that’s just one person’s opinion and I’m not necessarily an Enhancement Shaman main so much more experienced players might have some much, much more educated opinions on the matter.

69 Likes

Heavy HEAVY agree with the swapping of the Ascendance and Pwave branches. I think for the most part blizzard did well with having a “nature/stormstrike” side and a “fire/frost/lavalash” side until the capstones where they completely reversed them. Its very awkward.

Hot hands being a path to ascendance is just a bit weird. They will fight for procs during Ascendance windows. To amp up hot hands you want more fire/frost juice on the right side of the tree and to amp up ascendance you want more stormstrike juice on the left side of the tree.

15 Likes

there are currently two stormkeeper talents in the elemental tree one at the end of the tree as a choice node and one on the way to the choice node. it is also possible to pick to up healing stream totem twice as resto as it is a early restoration talent and also on the shaman tree

7 Likes

One very important detail: Why are there only horde characters on the talent tree background art?

My feedback for resto shaman as a PvPer:
Wowzer! This looks hella fun. Getting access to Thunderstorm, Lightning Lasso, Nature’s Swiftness and Stormkeeper has me extremely excited.

I already reported bugs and what not so this is mostly just feedback for Restoration:

  1. Frost shock being locked behind Chain Lightning for Restoration feels bad. It’s a staple of PvP Resto Shaman and Chain Lightning is quite worthless. Not too much of a big deal since it’s just one extra point, but I’d like to have access to Frost Shock without needing Chain Lightning.

  2. Healing Rain locking out the left side of the tree where the lightning bolt damage nodes are feels… counter productive? From a PvP PoV, Healing Rain is completely useless and the lightning bolt damage nodes, especially Stormkeeper, are a must since Resto Shaman is a very aggressive healer.

  3. Deeply Rooted Elements: 7% chance on Riptide to proc Ascendence for 6 seconds is really nice, but the RNG part of it makes it very unreliable (and extremely anti-fun, RNG on such a massive heal isn’t fun okay?). Would it be possible to reconsider changing it to instead activate every 10 to 15 riptides?

  4. Earth Living Weapon: The heal from this buff is very underwhelming, which in turns makes Earthwarden talent also underwhelming.

  5. Mana Spring Totem: Is this intended to only be 50 mana? Because 50 mana is practically nothing.

Don’t have much else to say, this looks great, at least for PvP.

Edit:
Having big issues with the talent tree not teaching the talents properly.

9 Likes

The intent with these talents is that getting the first will grant you the ability, such as Healing Stream Totem, or Stormkeeper. Acquiring the second will instead grant you a second charge of these abilities, similar to how the live version of Echo of the Elements grants Restoration Shaman a second charge of Healing Stream Totem.

This may not currently be functioning, but that is the plan for these.

32 Likes

Mana Spring Totem feels a little weird to use as Resto Shaman because it is on the GCD and it has a short duration. You have to use this empty GCD a bit too often and then do sort of a weird dance trying to maximize the amount of Lava Burst or Riptide casts during the totem’s duration feels clunky.

I’m not entirely a fan of the ‘maintenance’ totem it used to be either where you would simply press it on CD, so maybe having it interact with Resurgence or Water Shield or all healing spells cast; or simply increasing the current iterations’ duration + CD so you aren’t “maintaining” it quite as often.

6 Likes

Do any other enhance shamans feel like taking Frost Shock was Mandatory?

This is my current build on the alpha. Before swapping to Frost Shock I had a point in Ancestral Guidance with the idea of adding some off-healing during DPS phases.

Without it, the pacing just felt…off? You’re at 17% haste on the Alpha so it’s not like you’re swinging super slow, but it felt like I should be hitting something while SS/LL were off cooldown, and I was waiting for that 5th maelstrom stack to hit.

When picking Frost Shock, the rotation felt much more complete and it was a great gap filler ability to use when I was waiting for something flashy to hit.

5 Likes

This is insignificant, but could the falling animation from Gust of Wind be the Levitate idle animation? Would feel more like I have control of this gale rather than it flinging me hither and yon.

And on the subject of Gust of Wind, is there a reason that Spirit Walk is affected by Blessing of the Bronze, while Gust is not?

Tumbling Waves in its current iteration is a pretty unreliable source of CDR. This deep in the tree it feels almost like wasted points. Maybe a version in which each target hit by the buffed lava burst would give CDR, extra charges of Primordial Wave, or just flat CDR on the spell.

Storm Elemental as a talent was quite nerfed because of the 9.2 tier set, and going into Dragonflight the duration will be lower without the conduit. I think to make it an effective talent in its current position in the tree it should be either rebuffed to 20 stacks, or talent should buff flame shock the same way that fire elemental does. Being surrounded by flame shock talents that provide little synergy outside of Skybreaker’s Fiery Demise makes the talent feel a little out of place.

Elemental Blast has a couple different problems in its current iteration. The most important thing that I think would prevent it from being taken is that it shares a node with Windspeaker’s Lava Resurgence, which arguably is our strongest talent in a scenario where the Elemental Blast might be useful. This talent alone pretty much nullifies taking Elemental Blast, unless the damage is far more than earth shock. With the cast time, cost, unable to proc our mastery without Mountains will fall, and the fact that the stats are quite unnoticeable makes this talent pretty much a never take.

Liquid Magma Totem will be a decent way to spread flame shock fast, but one of the primary reasons you will be spreading flame shock for is to utilize Skybreaker’s Fiery Demise. If you have taken Skybreaker’s Fiery Demise, it makes sense that you will want Primal Elementalist to utilize the higher uptime on your elemental. This makes Liquid Magma Totem suffer a similar problem that Elemental Blast has. I think moving this talent would actually make some people want to use it for the first time in a long time.

16 Likes

Having played both Resto Shaman and Resto Druid now in the dungeons several times, it feels that Shaman mana costs are quite high. Emberon, arguably the most healing intensive fight, has dramatic differences in mana consumption between the classes despite throughput being similar in my two tests.

I would perform similar tests with the other healers if I felt confident in my ability to play them at a comparable level as to how I play these two and welcome anyone else’s data on this fight in particular for the sake of reducing the number of variables in comparison.

Side note: I am unable to generate links to Warcraft Logs nor imbed images in my posts because of seemingly arbitrary reasons, but over the course of Normal Emberon my Druid healed 11.2k HPS over two minutes and five seconds and ended the fight with 65% mana whereas my Shaman healed for 10.9k HPS over two minutes and thirty-four seconds and ended the fight with 34% mana.

5 Likes

This is really long, so I do apologise and have added a TL;DR at the bottom

Let’s start with all the positives (spoilers, there’s a lot):

First of all, the Class tree:

I assume that the philosophy here was that the 3 specs are all going in extremely different directions, so the spec trees are more about specializing your throughput and therefore those points are more of a premium, ergo less room for throughput on the tree. I agree with this almost entirely, and for a first pass it’s almost dead on, I’m genuinely not sure there’s anything I’d change significantly. There are a few minor things that could maybe sneak into the spec tree to make a little bit more conflict on the class tree, but honestly given it would start pulling from utility I’m undecided on if that’s even a worthwhile experiment.

The tree is structured incredibly well, with pathways subtly encouraged that opens up a huge range of options to tailor your non performance based utility, and this works great. The sheer wealth of options, mix/matching going on and freedom to create a swiss army knife of niche utility, rather than being railroaded into certain routes is excellent. This design is almost flawless.

The Spec tree:
I’m a big fan of the structure here too, things are segmented both thematically and with some good through-path nodes to get anywhere you want to mix and match. That the opening is more railroaded to open that, and the bottom is so desirable makes the central section the puzzle to solve of “what do I want, and how do I get there comfortably” alongside “how much do I want something, and am I willing to give something else up”. This is extremely close to a perfect iteration of conflict in the tree that makes things genuinely appealing where you’re just shy of enough points to get everything, and that friction is extremely engaging.

It also has some great interlinking synergy between what I’d consider the 3 pillars for Enh gameplay in alpha - those being GCD efficiency, Maelstrom Generation/expenditure, and DPS CD profiles. There is a legitimate question with certain choices as to whether they align with each other for windows, do I have enough Maelstrom to sustain it, and do I have enough GCDs to execute it elegantly. These three points pulling and pushing against each other opens up a lot of interesting questions, and not only do I think it’s been achieved on the tree structurally; I love it.


And, the negatives (spoilers, there’s not many and they’re specific):

Class Tree:

  • Call of the Elements: it’s alright but it’s a little too niche perhaps unless you use Wind Rush. I understand that not everything has to be super appealing here, but that’s one of the ones I have the hardest time finding a want for. The follow-up is even worse here. This is a minor gripe.

  • Surging Shields: this is a minor gripe again, but it feels like it could be a conflicting throughput option if we had a more engaging way to activate Lightning Shield (think something like old Static Shock?), but this is more a philosophical point than anything else, because more throughput in class means less room for utility.

  • GCD requirements of utility totems: from a personal PoV, dropping buff totems is fine if they’re long duration, but the lower duration, lower CD maintenance things (such as Stoneskin) start to get in the way of actual gameplay and don’t feel that impactful. I want to be clear I don’t dislike the idea of maintenance totems or even party buffs here; but some way of condensing the GCD or dropping multiple totems at once here (a la WotLK and up) might be nice. In a world where you could potentially have 3-4 maintenance level clashing utility tools (mana spring, healing stream, stoneskin, windfury) that’s a lot of globals that are directly getting in the way of playing your spec.

  • Hex placement: this is another minor personal gripe, but I feel like flipping Hex and Purge might be a little more elegant just by virtue of both how iconic Purge is, and how rarely useful Hex is. This keeps it accessible, but through other more flexible utility, and also easily fits into the tree spacing by adjusting the placement of the Hex upgrade one node down.

Spec Tree:

One thing I’ve noticed in a few discussions and even in here, is that the P.Wave + Ascendance sides are opposite to where they “belong”. While it is a simple fix to swap them, I genuinely like the idea of cross pathing to “build your rotation” here, and I think it could potentially be fixed in a more interesting way by looking at the pass through gates rather than just flipping them and making everything more linear and vertical:

  • Gathering Storms: This is my one glaring issue on the tree from a mechanical perspective. Tuning aside (obviously), it’s placement blockades something that a Lava Lash style would want to get to, but improves a button it never really wants to press - while on the other hand also not really enhancing the style SS or Maelstrom heavy build would do very much either. Personally, some way of retooling this to make CL an appealing press in AoE for one build (SS), and ST for the other (LL) might work out well. This would create a build-your-priority friction depending on how busy your GCD currently is/fight style where you have 4 options:
    Lava Lash + Crash Lightning focus
    Stormstrike + Crash Lightning focus
    Stormstrike + Lava Lash focus
    A mix-and-match (but not fully fleshed out!) of all 3
    As it stands right now, Gathering Storms feels a lot like two points that will likely be avoided because it doesn’t mechanically do very much and gets in the way of what most of the other options aim to do.
  • Second points of Elemental Assault/Frost Witch: These are dangerously close to trap points because of how much value is weighted to the first point, with the second being low impact. These feel better suited as either single pointers, or mechanical improvements to their effect per point rather than the Stormstrike damage amps.
  • Hot Hand Placement (and possibly design): In a similar vein to Gathering Storms, while I understand tax points this goes against the purpose of pathing from Stormstrike; without support talents for Lash and with the other things it can be paired with (and especially where it leads), it could be placed better. A common suggestion would be flipping it with Elemental Weapons, which I agree with. I would also really like a second look at the way the ability works both with the proc rate, and how punishing it can be in play with only one charge of Lava Lash.
  • Ice Strike and Swirling Maelstrom: I think these could stand to be flipped to start with, it’s strange to have an upgrade to Fire Nova that paths through Ice Strike that has massive interaction with Hailstorm, but not Nova. It’s a hard sell to have it affect both, but moving these gives better access to Nova, and since the dependency is missing maybe bringing back something similar to the Chilled to the Core Conduit (but also working in some variable way with Nova) might suit better here. (P.S. I love the new Ice Strike)
  • (Linked to above) - Right Side Ascendance link: With the above two in mind, cutting the link from Ice Strike to Ascendance (and making Ice Strike a dead end), and moving the link to Stormflurry → Ascendance fits both thematically and opens up more elegant routing from the Left.
  • Doom Winds: This is a cool button I’m glad is back on its own, but with short duration high conditional reqs it being OGCD would be nice (its hard to tell intent because it’s not implemented though). The trigger chance is a little odd, and I think there might need to be a little consideration toward it impacting the Mastery situation like SL, either via it scaling the proc chance with it or the amp improving via it with a similar conversion that Improved Stormbringer uses.

A rough and ready visualization of this is here - this keeps easy access to Windfury Totem for obvious reasons but vastly spreads out pathing and appeal in the centre block:


Finally, the vague maybe this could be the cherry on top points:

These are more things that could just round out the tree in general and solidify every path as an engaging choice and combination:

  • Ascendance (and DRE): I think this could absolutely stand to have the same choice node Elemental has, picking between on demand burst or infrequent shorter burst windows - given how impactful the tail end picks are I could see a use case for both and this option is very engaging. This also serves to remove a needed keybind for those who have pathed through a lot of active abilities and might feel overwhelmed.
  • Improved Chain Lightning: This is a cornerstone of SL gameplay and I like it a lot, one thing that I don’t like is that the Lava Lash playstyle frequently gains no use out of it because it avoids pressing it in lieu of just maintaining the buff. Perhaps a choice here to pick between CDR or a way extend the buff duration either passively or actively when GCDs start to clash with certain ability combinations would be interesting.
  • Lashing Flames: I’m adding this solely because of people asking me to voice it, but it being missing is a surprise because if capped off a playstyle in SL. I appreciate Primal Primer pseudo-recreates the tab-targetting Lava Lash, but the Splintered Elements link is cut here. This seems like a potential option to place on the tree somewhere (or some Flame Shock related interaction in general).
  • Fire Nova Target Cap: I understand there’s a lot of issues with Combat Log events and flood, and the PWave link so uncapping number of Flame Shocks is out of the question. I would like turning each Nova into uncapped versions to help solidify it as the uncapped AoE vs. Hailstorm’s capped though.
  • Elemental Spirits RNG: I know, beating a dead horse but there’s frustration over the lack of control of what spawns from this and how wildly the value varies. I like the concept and the aesthetics 100%, it’s just a common pain point that might be worth a little tweaking or adding a little control to is all.

The Keybind Situation

The tree aside, this is one concern that is cropping up more and more from some players and I can see where the concern is coming from - there is a potential for an overwhelming amount of keybinds needed.

This is less something I immediately feel when playing the Alpha, but it is something to keep in mind since so many things are individual active buttons with relatively low cooldowns. As an example there’s the potential for us to have 4 separate offensive Maelstrom Weapon spenders (Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning/Lava Burst/Elemental Blast) that all have their place. Combine this with strikes, that’s a whole lot of individual rotational keybinds to juggle.


Since this is really long and probably a bit much, a quick TL;DR:

Talent tree is really, really good but some minor placement tweaks could perfect it while keeping conflict intact. Gathering Storms is the one talent that feels like it doesn’t fit. A few old staple talents could do with a little tweaking to fit in this system, but by and large it’s mostly a slam dunk.

63 Likes

Fire Nova Target Cap: I understand there’s a lot of issues with Combat Log events and flood, and the PWave link so uncapping number of Flame Shocks is out of the question. I would like turning each Nova into uncapped versions to help solidify it as the uncapped AoE vs. Hailstorm’s capped though.

I’ve always wondered if they could script the Fire Nova impacts differently to reduce the volume of events and just fire a single damage event per impacted target that is sized based upon the number of Flame Shocked targets within range of the target. With a lot of Flame Shocks out and a lot of enemies, it can feel like I’m trying to crash my client by pressing Fire Nova.

Elemental Spirits RNG: I know, beating a dead horse but there’s frustration over the lack of control of what spawns from this and how wildly the value varies. I like the concept and the aesthetics 100%, it’s just a common pain point that might be worth a little tweaking or adding a little control to is all.

Having a mechanic to pick at least one of your wolves would add the interactivity that is currently missing for Elemental Spirits. I wouldn’t want yet another button for it, though (i.e., no Unleash Elements for wolves). Maybe your first wolf could have a 100% chance to match the spellschool of your last cast (with Stormstrike fudged as Lightning), and Feral Spirit’s icon could show the color of that guaranteed wolf as well.

15 Likes

One small thing I missed above - Overflowing Maelstrom. Great talent, the tree definitely needs GCD saving talents with the number of actives and CDR present, but it has counter-synergy with Hailstorm; and Frost Witch/Thorim’s both scale with Focused while it doesn’t with Overflowing. In particular if maybe one portion of the Hailstorm effect could go up to 10 would be great.

9 Likes

I think the intent of Overflowing Maelstrom is to synergize better with the stormstrike spam and massive amount of Maelstrom that is generated. I like the Overflowing Maelstrom talent for sure, but I agree it could use more synergy with more talents. I’d suggest that any additions be carefully selected though as (personally) I don’t want to have to take Hailstorm in my SS spam build just because it has that interaction. If I’m spending maelstrom, the next thing I want to do is spam more SS, not use frost shock.

As of the current build, Water Shield is realistically not worth putting a put into for Restoration Shaman. It feels like a cosmetic point that has little to no actual value. If I may suggest possibly moving it down to resurgence, combining the two talents and making resurgence proc only while water shield is active. This way shaman still has self mana return through an interesting mechanic, it promotes good use of keeping water shield active and retains water shield as being something that resto shamans use. This also allows much cleaner access to lava surge for those resto shamans that want to add a bit of DPS in downtime. As of right now it feels incredibly bad to take a “dead talent” to take lava surge.

16 Likes

I think the Shaman trees are a huge step forward from the earlier trees and I am hopeful that these trees will get better and better with each new iteration.

In this post I will focus on interactions with the Class Talent Tree; however, there will be some talk of interactions with the specialization trees.

In general, I feel that points that interact with other points in the tree should highlight those other points when you mouse over and see the tooltip. Further to this, abilities that rely on specializing in another ability should be locked out and clearly indicate what prerequisite talent is required to unlock it. An example of this would be the choice of selecting Alpha Wolf should not be possible without first selecting the Crash Lightning ability earlier.

Conversely selecting these talents could give you the base ability for free but that may throw off how the trees are intended to be balanced. An example of this would be that selecting Hailstorm or Ice Strike will automatically, grant the Frost Shock ability required to make Hailstorm function and that highly synergizes with Ice Strike.

While it is generally great to see the return of many of the utility totems, the totems are currently on the 1-sec totem GCD. In Shadowlands, there was a good initiative to ensure that abilities that used the GCD had some upfront impact. I would suggest that these situational totems are moved off the GCD entirely or they be modified to provide an upfront effect when the ability is activated. An example of this would be that Mana Spring Totem instantly restores 3x the mana initially but lasts 2 seconds shorter to make up for this initial burst. Conversely, Mana Spring Totem could have a chance to be dropped whenever you used another ability or drop another totem ( which would be reminiscent of the Torghast ability.)

The Call of the Elements ability and its subsequent enhancements are phenomenal for the Restoration specialization. At this time, however, neither of the damage-dealing specializations would receive tremendous benefit from this capstone section of the class tree. If totems gain an upfront impact as suggested earlier this is slightly more appealing. It might be more elegant to move this into the Restoration Specialization Tree and replace it with something that has more general appeal to all specializations.

Water Shield and Lightning Shield are generally weak for their respective specializations. Much of their proc value is lost in most group content. This in turn hollows the value of Elemental Orbit. It is my suggestion that Elemental Orbit can cause procs of resources from ability use. This would add resource generation for Water Shield and Lightning Shield while not creating another source of damage (which was a problem identified with damage profiles in MoP). If this also used charges of Earth Shield to proc additional healing throughput, this could be offset by increasing the maximum charges of Earthshield from that shaman. This proc chance would also increase the group utility of a damage-dealing specialization that selects this talent and use Earth Shield effectively.

Beyond these concerns, I feel some paths could be altered.

  • Nature’s Swiftness should be swapped with Mana Spring Totem or Totemic Surge to further distance it from Players who talk Maelstrom Weapon.

  • Hex is seldomly valuable in PvE, but it is positioned in the class tree in a way that makes it difficult to path around. Perhaps this should be moved to a different location.

Once again, I am greatly impressed by the latest talent trees and hope that this feedback will be considered to help further the development.

7 Likes

Could we maybe change the Thunderstorm/Lightning Lasso nodes to instead have both Thunderstorm knock back and knock up as a choice node rather than have the Thunderstorm knock up as a choice node with Lightning Lasso.

I just don’t see a reason to ever pick Thunderstorm knock up over Lightning Lasso in the current setup.

9 Likes

One thing that feels somewhat out of place is Storm Ele for elemental. The segmentation of the tree (Left - Nature, Middle - Mixed Magics, Right - Fire) works and flows really well, it’s just that the elementals get caught up in the fire side, which makes sense because the base spell is fire. However storm ele has a payoff for lightning spells, so I think it would be a better fit on the left hand side. Maybe to counteract this, the other elemental talents could be moved a bit more towards the center, so they’d be accessible for both sides.

10 Likes

Cloudburst is now working this build (yay!) however there are quite a few things I’d like to get some clarification on.

  1. Only the Ascendance initial burst feeds into Cloudburst Totem, not the duplicated healing. This was changed very late in the Shadowlands Beta cycle (and remains true to now) but this severely hurts how impactful of a CD Ascendance can be. Any thoughts on reverting this and allowing the duplicated healing to also feed Cloudburst?

  2. Ancestral Guidance healing no longer feeds Cloudburst Totem. This was not true the last time we had access to AG (back in Legion) and definitely hurts the potential of the spell. Is this intended or is this a bug?

Back in Legion when we last had access to all 3 of these spells together Ascendance did not have the initial heal but all duplicated healing fed Cloudburst, and Ancestral Guidance healing fed Cloudburst. This led to really cool moments where you could take both talents and pair them together for a very powerful cooldown window (or choose to separate them for more consistent cooldown usage) and removing these interactions would remove a lot of the cool intricacies the spec used to have (and what we’ve been hoping to bring back all this time).

Any clarification on this would be much appreciated!

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