Feedback: Shaman

Could we maybe change the Thunderstorm/Lightning Lasso nodes to instead have both Thunderstorm knock back and knock up as a choice node rather than have the Thunderstorm knock up as a choice node with Lightning Lasso.

I just don’t see a reason to ever pick Thunderstorm knock up over Lightning Lasso in the current setup.

7 Likes

One thing that feels somewhat out of place is Storm Ele for elemental. The segmentation of the tree (Left - Nature, Middle - Mixed Magics, Right - Fire) works and flows really well, it’s just that the elementals get caught up in the fire side, which makes sense because the base spell is fire. However storm ele has a payoff for lightning spells, so I think it would be a better fit on the left hand side. Maybe to counteract this, the other elemental talents could be moved a bit more towards the center, so they’d be accessible for both sides.

7 Likes

Cloudburst is now working this build (yay!) however there are quite a few things I’d like to get some clarification on.

  1. Only the Ascendance initial burst feeds into Cloudburst Totem, not the duplicated healing. This was changed very late in the Shadowlands Beta cycle (and remains true to now) but this severely hurts how impactful of a CD Ascendance can be. Any thoughts on reverting this and allowing the duplicated healing to also feed Cloudburst?

  2. Ancestral Guidance healing no longer feeds Cloudburst Totem. This was not true the last time we had access to AG (back in Legion) and definitely hurts the potential of the spell. Is this intended or is this a bug?

Back in Legion when we last had access to all 3 of these spells together Ascendance did not have the initial heal but all duplicated healing fed Cloudburst, and Ancestral Guidance healing fed Cloudburst. This led to really cool moments where you could take both talents and pair them together for a very powerful cooldown window (or choose to separate them for more consistent cooldown usage) and removing these interactions would remove a lot of the cool intricacies the spec used to have (and what we’ve been hoping to bring back all this time).

Any clarification on this would be much appreciated!

8 Likes

Fire Elemental no longer extends flame shock when present. Also mountains will fall Mastery proc’d Earthquakes still do not receive any damage buffs from Master of the elements or Echoes of the great sundering. Unsure if these are intended or not

6 Likes

I really love the diversity of talent options in the Elemental tree and for me it serves as a model for the other talent trees in flexibility, choice nodes feeling appropriately placed, and variability in different build options.

Hello again, Shamans!

In today’s new build of the Dragonflight Alpha, we have several adjustments to talents in the Shaman Class Tree intended to reduce the overall defensive and mobility kit of Shaman, which has crept up due to the new system allowing for previously impossible combinations. We’re happy with new talent combinations, but the mobility and defensive power in the tree exceeded our target for Shaman, and individual talent power was above budget compared to other classes.

Elemental
We’ve continued to make minor tweaks to the Elemental tree, based on feedback. This week we focused on improvements to Primordial Wave. It’s generally avoided outside of AoE in the current design, so our aim is to improve its overall value in various game modes to increase build diversity.

We attempted to address node pathing pain points for Storm Elemental with Primal Elementalist. There is now a path available towards Primal Elementalist that doesn’t require sinking more than a couple points into talents unrelated to a Lightning-focused build.

Electrified Shocks is an experiment we’re excited about for Icefury in AoE, and we’re continuing to make adjustments to it. We’ve increased the duration of the Icefury buff which should be an overall improvement to its gameplay given the window was previously hard to fit your Frost Shocks in. We’ve also reduced the number of targets hit and increased the duration of the debuff on enemies, as the intent is for there to be weaving gameplay between Chain Lightning and Frost Shock.

Flames of the Firelord is a niche talent, mainly used for PvP or some AoE builds and we felt it best to combine its functionality with Flames of the Cauldron.

Magma Chamber has moved as its generally more versatile than Searing Flames. Its damage bonus has also been increased.

Talent changes for Elemental:

  • Flames of the Firelord has been removed, and its effect is now attached to Flames of the Cauldron.
  • Flames of the Cauldron now reduces the cooldown of Flame Shock by 1.5 seconds and Flame Shock deals damage 15% faster.
  • Icefury buff duration increased to 25 seconds (was 15 seconds).
  • Electrified Shocks makes Frost Shock hit 3 additional targets (was 4), and the debuff duration increased to 6 seconds (was 4 seconds).
  • Magma Chamber Damage bonus increased to 0.7%/1.5% per stack (was 0.5%/1.0% per stack).
  • Tumbling Waves has been removed from Elemental and replaced with Rolling Magma.
  • Rolling Magma causes Lava Burst and Lava Burst Overload damage to reduce the cooldown of Primordial Wave by 0.5/1.0 seconds.
  • Splintered Elements increases Haste by 10% per stack (was 6%).
  • Fire Elemental once again increases the duration of Flame Shock by 100% while active.
  • Coming soon:
    • Heat Wave - Casting Primordial Wave triggers Lava Surge immediately and every 3 seconds for 12 seconds.

Restoration
We also made some adjustments to the Restoration tree to improve accessibility to damage/utility focused talents without needing to talent into throughput.

We’ve swapped Resurgence and Lava Surge to allow for damage-focused builds to not require talenting into increased mana regeneration.


Thanks again for your testing and feedback!

22 Likes

Wind Rush Totem is now only a 40% movespeed as of this patch compared to Stampeding Roar which is still at 60% movespeed. Is this something that will be equalized later on or is Wind Rush being targeted specifically because we have the potential to talent into things like Totemic Projection and Call of the Elements?

9 Likes

Just checking in here solely because while the initial tree drop was great, Enhancement has seen no updates (which is understandable, a lot is going on) to relay some relatively critical bugs, since I assume some things are NYI it’s hard to tell which is which, but from current testing since the original build all of the following are non functional:

  • Witch Doctor’s Wolf Bones
  • Legacy of the Frost Witch
  • Alpha Wolf
  • Overflowing Maelstrom has negative scaling with Primordial Wave spenders
  • Improved Stormbringer
  • Elemental Blast can’t be used - it drags Earth Shock onto the action bar (macros can’t circumvent this)
  • Doom Winds
  • Lava Burst scales with Maelstrom Weapon cast reduction, but not Improved Maelstrom Weapon damage increase

and as of the most recent build (2nd Aug), more bugs have come up affecting previously functional talents:

  • Primal Lava Actuators
  • Splintered Elements

Just listing these here because while the initial tree on the surface looks extremely good, some of these are very core to understanding exactly how the flow of things should go, and without that context or any kind of implementation it’s very difficult to gauge the end goal of the design. Lots of these seem to be tied specifically to Maelstrom Weapon (assume it’s a quirk in making the base spell a different ID on the class tree that broke the link) so getting these functional would be great to see how the spec rounds out.

I’d also like to re-iterate, the keybinding issue is still very much a concern here for mandatory picks through the tree as well - we’ve always been a keybind heavy spec but there’s a lot going on here without ways of mitigating it. This may work out fine - but without knowing how extreme the “piano” situation is with all of the other effects going on is, it’s hard to eyeball how overwhelming things may be for the general player.

That also relates to the Maelstrom Weapon economy goals - without seeing in action some kind of give/take (or knowing design intent) for it, it’s hard to tell whether it’s intended to be a focal point throughout or a niche build type.

I also repeat the same talent placement adjustments from my first post should be looked at (it’s greatly appreciated Hex was flipped with Purge) - those being the Hot Hand, Elemental Weapons and Ice Strike placements - as these cause the most unnecessary friction in the tree.

Last, but by no means least, I think an overwhelming amount of frustration from long time players that gets echoed back to me (no pun intended) and I do agree with, is some form of Echo of the Elements for proc retention on Stormstrike/Lava Lash would go a long way - there’s more than enough room to place it on the spec tree (or even shift it to the class tree considering all 3 specs desperately want it). This allows much more QoL room for GCD spacing/juggling with certain other talent combinations, and also indirectly fixes combining Legacy of the Frost Witch with Overflowing Maelstrom.

37 Likes

Well Wordup pretty much covered all of the core problems on alpha currently in his last post so I won’t repeat any of what’s listed there.

Instead I want to talk about Chain Lightning.

This skill is incredibly underwhelming and underperforming despite being our starting node on the class tree for shaman. The average AoE damage output per cast is LOWER than Lava Burst single target average damage per cast(when maelstrom scaling works, its a bit buggy currently). Now this is because Lava Burst always crits and is gaining additional damage via maelstrom weapon. If maelstrom weapon benefit is unintended, then that negates Lava Burst as part of this. Main point I wanted to stress is how LOW the damage is for Chain Lightning, even in AoE.

That being said I was very surprised that a skill that is our starting point on the class tree, has 0 gains or improvements to it throughout the entirety of our specialization tree. There’s 1 talent that relates to Chain Lightning right under Crash Lightning but that is something that effects Crash Lightning and not Chain Lightning.

I think it would be really great to see a node replaced somewhere that either amplifies Chain Lightnings damage or extends it’s # of targets hit to 5. I feel the 3 target limit is very limiting on Chain Lightning and part of what makes its damage so underwhelming currently when compared to other skills.

Perhaps Gathering Storms could be re-worked into something that modifies Chain Lightning as well, as the talent itself is incredibly underwhelming and lacking as a 2 point node, let alone the effect by itself from it.

30 Likes

I was overwhelmed with awesome choices. as a M+ resto main and some raiding I am really happy that i will be able to have loadouts for each instance, and here were some really strong choices in there. Can’t wait to see how the numbers shape up.

1 Like

Following today’s build I would like to re-iterate again, the bugs I mentioned above are core enough that it’s making it very difficult to actually present real feedback for Enhancement on how it “feels” to play. It has not been touched since build one and while I know there are other priorities, we’ve become less functional since the initial release with new bugs being introduced from other spec fixes.

Just a little heads up would go a long way here to allay the concerns many players aren’t treading the same path as BfA or SL Alpha/Beta where it becomes a mad rush to finish things at the end.

22 Likes

I don’t want to harp about it, but it’s become increasingly difficult to do any testing/feedback to the Enhancement tree as it remains in state with a large portion of KEY talents not working at all.

That being said I noticed something in the Warrior notes today and would like to bring it up for our class as well.

Would be awesome to see this same process be applied for our class as well. Its one thing to invest a point for an “improved” version to get effects back(I.E. Lava Lash), its another if it’s spread across so many talent points it no longer even becomes worth taking. Particularly if some of those effects aren’t worth it individually.

FOR EXAMPLE: Crash Lightning is very meh skill even in its current state for Shadowlands but for Dragonflight its been broken into a 4 talent investment just to see full effectiveness returned, but the branch off investment points to get full functionality aren’t individually worth investing into because they’re so lacking that they essentially become dead talents that will never even be taken or considered.

22 Likes

Bugs with Restoration Shaman:

  1. Charges of Healing Stream Totem (or Cloudburst Totem) still dont work, regardless of whether or not you talent one in each spec/class tree.
  2. The 2nd point of Totemic Surge does not correctly reduce the cooldown of Cloudburst Totem. It works correctly with all other totems (including Healing Stream Totem).
  3. Ancestral Guidance and Ascendance do not feed Cloudburst Totem. This has not yet been confirmed if this is a bug or if this is intended, but it is not working how it did when we last had AG back in Legion so I’m assuming it is a bug.
5 Likes

The enhancement shaman tree is a great starting point to create what currently could turn out to be one of the best designed trees DF will have to offer. A large concern from a lot of the enh community is lack of feedback. As of right now ele/resto and hunter specs have seen multiple iterations since the release of the trees, yet enh has not been mentioned once (along with the majority of the spec being bugged). Considering the history of enh being sidelined, I’m worried about this kind of trend. Wordup along with countless other shamans, like myself, have submitted many bug and feedback reports on alpha, and hope to hear that the spec is at least being looked at, even if there is no immediate changes in patch notes.
A list of changes some shamans would like to see are:
-Deeply rooted elements choice node with ascendance
-Crash lightning iteration to make the ability an effective aoe tool(possibly merging crashing storms into the ability)
-Make gathering storms a 1 point node
-make a link from storm flurry to swirling maelstrom (ice strike is useless with fire nova)
-remove doomwinds from gcd (feels horrible to press on alpha, at least it comes with wf totem on live)
-replace windfury totem with stormlash and make windfury totem a node below windfury weapon
-replace elemental assault with static shock (It gives Stormstrike and Lava Lash a chance to deal damage equal to Lightning Shield and generate maelstrom) would encourage surging shields, give lightning shield use outside of being attacked by melees, and the % chance increase would feel better as a 2 rank talent
-increase hot hand proc chance and make it charge based (next lava lash does more damage, and procs can be stored)
-interaction for if someone chooses ele blast and lava burst (feels clunky when both are chosen and burst is fundamentally better as it has class interaction with flurry)

15 Likes

Hi, New to Alpha. Very excited over the Shaman Changes. My feedback will be on Elemental.

  1. Too many “trickle” GCD demands.

  2. Flame Shock

I feel the rotation is suffering hard from Three Stooges syndrome, in which I have a lot of buttons I want to press, and so very few GCDs to press them. Lots of Utility Totems that are best pressed on CD. This is exacerbated by having a FluxMelting / AfterShock / Windspeaker’s build. I find practically no time between button mashing to actually drop my trickle utility.

Ancestral Wolf Affinity and Totemic Projection does very little alleviate the situation. Trying to place totems before trash pulls in M+ is very tedious and rather dull gameplay, Totems only having 15s-18s duration does little to make Totemic Projection shine in this exact niche it should be designed for.

I think the problem could be solved thusly:

  1. Bring back Wrath of the Lich King Call of the Elementals allowing me to place all Totems at once every 26s-30s in 1 GCD. Could even limit it to four totems.
  2. Massively increase both Duration and Cooldown of Totemics, this in my mind will drastically carve out a niche for Totemic Projection being a very strong talent for M+

With Elemental itself. My least favorite mechanic of the spec is Flame Shock. It has always clashed with my vision and desire for the spec, it feels like a relic from a bygone era. The last time Flame Shock got an update was when Lava Burst was introduced in Wrath.

I understand the desire of not wanting Shamans to become a Multi-Dot centric spec, and I agree. I would play Spriest, or Warlock in that case. But there has to be a better balance. I dislike the current 18s duration, it feels very restrictive and more of an annoying fly to be swatted.

I dare say, I think my favorite idea is to just remove Flame Shock from Elemental completely. I know it’s bold, but it’s fresh. Elemental now has a very strong identity as being a spell slinging power house that reacts to the whims of nature. There is already huge flavor in trying to Maximize Lava Surge, Ice Fury, Flux Melting, Aftershock, Master of the Elements, Deeply Rooted Elements, Power of the Maelstrom, Echos of the Great Sundering.

You have so many abilities crying out desperately to be used, and juggled properly to maximize and you’re stuck pressing boring, unengaging Flame Shock. My address to PvP Concerns is: Just make Lava Burst do less damage in PvP? When was the last time Ele Shaman was meta in PvP anyway?

If you cannot see it in your heart to do such a bold new idea. Can we please get some talents to make Flame Shock easier to manage? Longer Duration with longer Cooldown would be a nice choice vs Flames of the Cauldron. (Like MM Light and Heavy Ammo Talent Choice).

Can Liquid Magma also be moved? I don’t foresee many situations where it’ll be worth picking up over Primal Elementalist, and only applying 3 Flame Shocks when an average trash pack is 5 feels very underwhelming.

10 Likes

Hard agree, I also think Flame Shock is a very lame spell now. The vanilla wow shock system derived all of its interest from the exclusive shared cooldown. So if you flame shocked, which was a more immediate split between instant and dot damage, you were giving up a frost shock or earth shock for that cycle, and a ton of mana. The shock lineup were your most powerful, most costly spells.

Modern flame shock is just a maintenance dot, and feels wildly out of place in the spec. Everything else in the kit is so bombastic and cool.

I also think that the new cooldown-based totems… don’t really feel like totems? I really like Classic shaman design if you hadn’t guessed, setting up a little totem camp was fun. 4 totems is too many, but running up and putting down 1 or 2 totems to open an encounter is a nice shamany feeling. I feel like the cooldown for stuff like healing stream totem should go away so you are more free to place totems at your whim. Healing stream totem to help the party a little bit and searing totem to do a little passive damage seems like an ideal set almost.

10 Likes

While true, I’d almost prefer it if they left Crash Lightning split up like it is and then buffed the crap out of each of said components until they were (at least situationally) worth taking. Right now a Crash Lightning cast against 8 targets hits about as hard as a Frost Shock, so there’s a lot of room to dial things up in order to make Crash Lightning into a rewarding button press again.

Gathering Storms could be dialed up significantly (like, 20% per target for 1 point), the Crash Lightning cast/proc could deal more damage (particularly the cast), and the Chain Lightning (rank 2) talent could add additional Crash Lightning damage per target hit by Chain Lightning or allow Chain Lightning to hit 2 additional targets.

7 Likes

I am not sure if this was a thought amongst other Enhancement Shaman or maybe it’s only me, but here:

  1. Flurry in Class Tree is Crit available
  2. Magma Fist soulbind in SL gave Lava Lash an increased Crit chance
  3. I feel like this could be a side choice for Lava Lash

This would make sense for Enhance to have an increased proc chance for a melee specific class tree option since Resto/Ele have guaranteed crits from Lava Burst hits into Flame Shock.

Elemental Blast should be on the right side of the tree it seems as the left side feels more Lightning/Stormstrike related powers. Could be swapped with Stormflurry it seems.

Would also be nice if Swirling Maelstrom encompassed Frost Shock similar to the SL conduit Chilled to the Core. Presently this talent only would affect if the Shaman chose Ice Strike or Fire Nova (despite Hailstorm being the alternative choice).

Question I have is why is Stormstrike still a “Physical” based damage ability still in DF? It doesn’t benefit from Mastery or Elemental Weapons.

1 Like

Flurry has no practical crit interaction (it already has 90-100% uptime without making any effort to stack crit). It would need to be redesigned in order for crit hooks to be interesting.

So Flurry works without the talent for Shaman in DF? I’m seeing it listed as a talent that interacts with crit.