FEEDBACK: Shaman Class Changes

Nice. I had a feeling the intent was for it to work this way instead.

That is unfortunate… I agree that 24 seconds would feel a lot better than 18, and would make keeping 3 Flame Shocks up a lot less painstaking than it is at an 18 second cooldown.

If it’s going to have a cooldown, I think 24 seconds is the sweet spot. 18 is in the “feels bad” range.

So it would be nice if you guys considered it at least :slight_smile:

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Any word on resto shamans being the only healer in game with no way to remove poisons? Especially after basing an entire dungeon on poisons?

Or something regarding our terrible stacked healing niche?

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The duration feels fine. Lowering the cooldown would make the spell more fun and interactive. Anything 3 seconds or below would be incredible.

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Any plans coming down the pipe for Enhancement level 50 talent row? Ascendance might be in a decent spot but all through BFA the other 2 talents were just not good. Elemental Spirits is far too RNG and Earthen Spike just feels like it lacks any sort of punch.

Okay just played with these latest Ascendance changes and holy crap these are amazing!

The ascendance legendary proccing the on use effect is soooo fun to play with.

There are 2 bugs currently. The legendary that procs asc puts it on CD. This repeats everytime it procs and will remove your ability to use that cd.

The 2nd is that each lava burst cloned by asc spends our mana. This causes us to go oom instantly if playing the ASC proc legendary.

I will say the only thing that could top off how happy these changes have made me is getting Ascendance baseline and adding in a charge system to flame shock.

Thanks for your guys work on my fav spec :slight_smile:

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Feral Spirits are a bit weak right now, and the talented version has some issues where the different elemental wolves don’t interact with some abilities that they should be.

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If the duration isn’t going to be changed is anything else coming? Charges baseline or through echo of the elements? CD reduced from 6 sec to 3? 18 seconds is a barely functional duration with a 6 sec CD, I cannot stress enough how bad it feels. This is the worst version of flame shock, it strains the GCD to the point that trying to maximize the number of flame shocks you have up feels punishing instead of rewarding. It’s the single biggest pain point for the spec, even bigger than baseline echo, because it’s a difference between actual functionality and quality of life. Elemental needs something done to improve the state of Flame Shock. All the other changes this week have been positive (with the exception of static, but that’s a different subject), the spec feels like it’s hitting a good stride aside from this one issue which feels like being hobbled.

Is there anything at all coming for Flame Shock? Anything?

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If there are no plans to change flame shock duration, could there be other options of extending the duration or spreading flame shock through talents, similarly to the talent Path of Flame in Legion.

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Is there any intention to have Echoing Shock copy the duplicate Lava Bursts from the Necrolord’s covenant ability? I don’t think Echoing Shock works in that way, but it seems like it might add some viability to covenants outside of Kyrian, whose ability seems very strong still.

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And even if it did work as intended, it would still be incredibly underwhelming.

There’s a lot of great Enhancement (& Shaman in general) feedback in this thread-- please take it to heart. <3

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For elemental, thanks a ton!

Elemental Blast change smooths out rotation when talented, and the +30 maelstrom is actually a very clever way to make that row all have an AoE aspect thanks to Earthquake DPET (with, of course, aftershock returning to affect earthquake and Echoing too). If we’re going to go hard on builder+spender, this is the way to commit!

Ascendance effect will make it significantly more fun to press. I can only imagine it’d look mildly hilarious to pair this with Echoing Shock + Primordial Wave + get some lucky mastery procs for a flurry of meatballs.

I’m hoping this can still be reconsidered. Power aside, it’s much less fun to play with 18 second flame shock, with a non-haste reduced 6 second cooldown, and 1 charge.

If in any way what might be swaying this is the Fire Elemental’s +100% duration, then reverting this to its prior maelstrom-over-time (nerfed version even?) mechanic is now a new possibility with Fulmination gone. This feels much less awkward of a benefit tied to our cooldown, not requiring as much ramp-up to benefit the saved GCDs of flame shock (which for PvP added duration can be dispelled all the same), making this a good possible change on its own even.

Should Flame Shock be reconsidered, we have the potential of going into Shadowlands with only all positive elemental shaman changes:

  • Ancestral Guidance off-GCD for dungeons, and added Ascendance effect
  • 40% hp ankh
  • Echoing Shock in place of the bland Call the Thunder
  • unpruning returning flavor spells and healing stream for a valuable movement healing GCD in place of an unbuffed frost shock, tuning dependent.
  • Elemental Blast off Echo’s row, and upfront damage of many abilities like Lava Burst readjusted to not rely on traits/talents solely or feel unsatisfying to cast

While the Fulmination rework did have some positive feedback initially with the goal of moving away from builder+spender, instead going hard on making this BFA version of elemental fun can still be great.

Keep up the good work, thanks

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If there are no plans to change flame shock duration, could there be other options of extending the duration or spreading flame shock through talents, similarly to the talent Path of Flame in Legion.

There’s Surge of Power that literally let’s you Flame Shock two targets nearby after casting Earth Shock; Primal Wave from the Necrolord Covenant that acts as another Flame Shock; and Ascendance that refreshes all active Flame Shocks durations…

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Surge of Power would be practical if it actually worked with EQ instead of only ES, but yes, that’d be a great candidate to be improved.

Primordial Wave and Ascendance are things that want you to have more Flame Shocks out for before casting.

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I noticed this as well, especially if 18 second+lower DPET flame shock is to remain. Would keep the talent flexible, make AoE more consistent on the move when consumed via flame shock, smooth transitions from AoE to low target multi-target, and its effects otherwise wouldn’t add any unreasonably large bonus to AoE (auto-consumed with Master of the Elements AoE builds by Lava Burst, so more Fire Elementals). While synergy with Primordial Wave or, new Ascendance effect of course, would be considered… the Primordial Wave part could be positive even, since its benefit is much clunkier to get out in AoE situations compared to the other covenants as it is.

Then Primal Elementalist+Storm elemental already giving Surge’s competitor a notably strong AoE burst.

I’d be all for digging Surge of Power out of the dumps, even if it makes it either too often picked or unintentionally strong in some way, temporarily. More change could always come later if needed.

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Been spending the last couple hours trying out the latest build for elemental. I must say, I am incredibly excited for the latest changes!

  • Elemental Blast: Oh the king is back and I absolutely love this thing. Having this act as Earth Shock but as a BUILDER absolutely blows my mind. It opens up such a crazy amount of synergies with other spells.
  • Flame Shock: Returning the tick rate to 2s improves game feel noticeably. The old 3s you could definitely feel with Lava Surge. The FS duration compared to BFA is different, but I feel the intricacies that have been added make that sting less.
  • Aftershock: Adding Earthquake back here makes this row absolutely killer. Love it.
  • Ascendance: Copying the Primordial Wave effect here is a slam dunk. I’m not sure that will make it as enjoyable as Stormkeeper. I think what hurts it the most is just the cooldown. You’ll feel the impact of SK far more often than Ascendance.

Now specifically a couple things I played around with that I want to comment on:

  • Echo of the Elements + Elemental Blast + Surge of Power: This results in a synergy I never expected and it’s FUN AS HELL. Having Elemental Blast work in the place of Earth Shock for Surge of Power means you can effectively juggle Flame Shocks across 4 targets. And the improved Flame Shock tick rate means Lava Surges just flow in with that many targets. This makes for a funnel that requires some skilled play and considerable reward. Fantastic.
  • Stormkeeper + Echoing Shock + Earthquake: Of course this is great. It gives you a fun and understandable AoE opener. SK -> CL -> CL -> EcS -> EQ cranks out an immediate sith lord level of lightning and sustained EQs to keep things going.

I have to say that adding Maelstrom generation to Elemental Blast is such a fascinating solution for that spell’s difficult history. It’s always looked great and now feels very rewarding.

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Are there any plans to make primordial wave work with maelstrom weapon stacks like chain harvest does? It feels a bit weird to cast it as enhance. I’d also love for Ascendance to be knocked down to a 2 minute CD or each time you use Stormstrike for example, you reduce the CD of Ascendance by x seconds. I really wish it was baseline because it’s such an awesome ability.

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Now that Elemental Blast has taken the (very satisfying) u-turn from mild spender to a large builder, I’m curious if its interaction with Surge of Power is still intended.

While it’d definitely make Flame Shock fun, I can see this getting changed. A common thing with Elemental Blast being a large builder will be to logically Elemental Blast -> Earth Shock, specifically in situations where you’re putting elemental blast on cooldown while already at a decent maelstrom level, to prevent overcap on next cast. You’re then awkwardly munching a Surge buff by design.

So in other words, by nature it’s clashing, and was initially added to Surge of Power when made a 60-spender, which makes it look like an oversight.

Also, Surge of Power does still have that similar issue Echoing Shock had prior to the recent change. It’s a little different because it can’t be consumed by a lava burst casted before the Earth Shock, but it still won’t be consumed by your actual “next spell”, if that happens to be lava burst, and you shock etc before that lava burst hits its target. Earth Shock -> Casted Lava Burst -> Frost Shock, for example, will Surge of Power buff the Frost Shock.

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Did some more brief testing with Echoing Shock. Its interaction with Stormkeeper is still a bit odd and I’m curious how its intended design is:

Should it echo an empowered Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning or not?

If you Stormkeeper and Echoing Shock the first cast of Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning, it echoes the empowered spell (LB damage increased, CL overloads every target).

If you Stormkeeper and Echoing Shock the SECOND cast of Lightning Bolt or Chain Lightning, it does not echo the empowered spell (normal damage, normal overload chance).

I think either one way makes sense, but I would hope they’re eventually made consistent.

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^^^^ Exactly. I’m curious on this as well - this does still persist on the most recent build, and would sway balancing a bit too heavily toward this talent combination. Very likely to also fall under that category of oversight.

Echoing Shock is currently not echoing Lava Beams from Ascendance as well. Niche as heck, but I guess this could be included for completeness as it’s intended to echo nearly everything (even things that are illogical).

Which does also give me an idea - what if Echoing Shock replicated Healing Stream Totem for a similar reason? If this bad boy can drop Earthquakes, why not double streams like EotE+non-cloudburst Resto similarly can? Since it’s by all means a healing spell. Niche again, not desirable in the long run, but neat to look at.

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You know, I’m fairly certain Echo of the Elements has been the default choice since its introduction in MoP. Why is this still not baseline?

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