FEEDBACK: Shaman Class Changes

Resto shamans desperately need a “tank cool down” so that we can be anything other than trash tier for pushing mythics. We will continuously get declined from groups until this happens, as evidence from the past 2 expansions. Every other healer has some sort of tank cool down: holy priest has guardian spirit, disc has pain sup, Druid has iron bark, monk has life cocoon, and pally has sacrifice.

My suggestion would be the new “Surge of Earth” talent that was added to be changed. Shamans are super saturated on AoE healing, thus yet another ability that does the same thing is not needed at all. I think a good compromise would be to change the talent to something like “The target with earth shield takes 20% less damage for 10 seconds. Earth shield will not consume charges while triggered while active. 1.5 minute cool down.” Or something to that effect. Not a super OP ability with an average effect and long-ish cooldown compared the other healer counterparts spells, but it just gives something that can help for 5 man situations.

21 Likes

With the recent changes to the GCD’s for “burst” cooldown’s I can understand the logic behind not changing Burst Cooldowns that have a animation flavor to them like Meta for DH or Stormkeeper as you mentioned. I also am happy with the change to Ancestral Guidance as that has been a request for some time now. However I would like to point out that Restoration Shaman received a change to their Ascendance cooldown a while ago in BFA. Could we possibly be seeing a similar change to the Ascendance talent for both Elemental and Enhancement as currently it falls under what is described as a Burst cooldown but is not along the same animation flavor design as Stormkeeper or Meta for DH. Changing your character model with nothing else happening does not fall under that category unfortunately.

21 Likes

interesting

NEW Stormflurry Stormstrike has a 25% chance to strike the target an additional time for 40% of normal damage. This effect can chain off of itself.
Tier 2 Talent, in place of Stormfury
Stormfury Each time Windfury Weapon activates, the cooldown of Stormstrike is reduced by 1.0 sec.
Removed
Category changed from Talents to Uncategorized

Maelstrom Weapon When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you have a chance to gain Maelstrom Weapon, stacking up to 10/5 times. Each stack of Maelstrom Weapon reduces the cast time of your next damage or healing spell by 20% and increase the damage or healing of your next spell by 20%. A maximum of 5 stacks of Maelstrom Weapon can be consumed at a time.

very interesting changes to maelstrom weapon will make tracking it alot easier now that it caps at 5 and will have to test out out the flurry

I’m very deeply concerned about this change back to just 5 total stacks of Maelstrom Weapon. I don’t see a hidden buff to baseline, so this smacks of a lazy fix to the 10 stack bug without accommodating flexible play by building up to 2 instants, or otherwise protecting from stack loss.

Also, with Covenant rewards giving stam, our healing will once again get worse and worse over time.

Combine this update with the GCD post, and I’m thoroughly disappointed right now.

That being said, on the Beta at the moment I’m seeing one stack of MSW that caps at 5, and another separate stack that goes up to 10. If I use a spender, it takes from the 10 stack first, but once that stack gets down to 5, it takes from both stacks down to 0.

At what point do I start thinking about what other class I should roll? At this point, this close to release, I have absolutely no idea where the spec is going to end up.

EDIT - The whole “it still stacks to 10” bug actually works how I thought they’d do it: you can stack to 10, but when you spend 5, you only get the effect of 5 stacks. There’s no 10 stack benefit anymore, so now blowing 5 stacks on Healing Surge is only ever about 12.5% of my total health at level 60 on the beta.

7 Likes

what is interesting about giving less choice in MSW use, the tracking tracked up to 5 before, sure being able to track higher would be nice but the harm reverting back to 5 does for the rotation way out weighs the benefit to people who dont want to figure out how to track things differently. in the old 10 stacks you could still just hit LB at 5 stacks if you wanted.

To clarify: this is just a tooltip error. The current build you have should still have a 10 maximum stack of Maelstrom Weapon. In-game, you are probably seeing two different buffs, one that stacks up to 5, and one that stacks up to 10. The one that stacks up to 5 will be hidden in a future build. The Maelstrom Weapon tooltip is just pointing to the wrong place for maximum stacks.

We hear there are some problems with Chain Harvest and this iteration of Maelstrom Weapon, that will be looked into and fixed as well.

13 Likes

Well this is what I get for relying on data mining. Thank you much for the clarification, that definitely aligns with my experience/testing. In this case, I can confirm that it does work and caps abilities to 5 stacks of benefit.

As a programmer, I’m infinitely curious how a hidden 5 stacks of MSW is helping this work, but I know I won’t get an answer on that.

What I will say is that I hope this gets a close look during the tuning pass, because the numbers for self-healing and damage from 5 stacks don’t seem like enough to me, from a solo questing perspective.

8 Likes

8.0. Bliz: Elemantal shaman rework in progress.
players: omg this is so exciting!!!
9 months later,
8.2. Bliz: let us introduce the BRAND NEW TALENT: Surge of power
players: …
Seriously, it takes 9 months to come up with THAT?
same slacking off is still happening. it’s 2 month until launch, and look at the updates:

  • windfury weapon lasting 60/30 min (toggles the duration time every couple of weeks to show they’re doing balancing work)
  • flame tongue weapon lasts 60/30 min (toggles the duration time every couple of weeks to show they’re doing balancing work)
  • DPS spec shaman offensive spell now costs Mana (toggles mana cost every couple of weeks to show they’re doing balancing work)
  • mana tide now affects 10/15 yards ( (toggles the range every couple of weeks to show they’re doing balancing work)
  • Chain heal jump range 10/15 yards ( (toggles the range every couple of weeks to show they’re doing balancing work)
    ^^^^^^^^^^ Seriously, if that’s not slacking off, I don’t know what is. It’s outrageous.

Real issues that need fixing:

Elemental:
–Elemental blast needs Either 0 maelstrom cost, or more damage to compensate for hard cast & compare with other 2 good talents on the same row.
–Ascendance: 0 impact button.
–Need talents & covenants to INTERACT with each other.
(for example, if Chain harvest can overload, while crits reducing it’s CD, it’ll be very interesting to play with, and may even offer a reason for Elemental shamans to not avoid Mastery)

Enhancement:
very very poor gameplay experience.
Fire nova NEEDs flame shock spread mechanic to function. The spread mechanic would also make primordial wave actually viable for this spec.
Lava lash is an 18 sec CD skill that deals minor damage… ??? wtf is this?
Storm bringer: only procs off special attack, doesn’t grant 1 additional stack of storm strike. So this now has 50%+ reduced proc rate, AND less than 50% proc value. Way under-tuned.
Fae-transfusion: works with Enhancement mastery, nothing to complain. Keep up things like this please.

  • Pvp survival, mana regen, healing surge value.

Resto:
fine right now, just don’t screw it up like you did with Ele/Enh in BFA.

17 Likes

If you’re expecting Ele to be anything relevant in PvP, I have bad news. We’re exceptionally likely to wind up as Lassobots.

I’m all for going full cowboy theme and just attack with various flavors of lasso.

Lava Lasso feels like a freebie. Our six-shooter can rapidly fire several layers of elemental attacks. We can drive a herd of spirit wolves at our foes, for a cooldown idea.

The transmog options write themselves - imagine a tauren with a big ole cowboy hat and a huge bandana.

I’m kind digging this lassobot idea, good stuff! Fourth spec?

3 Likes

With all the offensive cooldowns being taken off of the global cooldown in the recent patch, enhancement shamans have been forgotten :frowning: (Bloodlust in pvp, ascendance, thundercharge). Would really help the spec feel less clunky and behind in pvp if these spells were off the global cooldown :slight_smile:.

15 Likes

I’m guessing you didn’t play before legion.

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Hi I held off on feedback because I thought that restoration shamans weren’t complete on the beta yet but it looks like you’ve just forgotten about restoration again for the 6th year in a row so I’ll throw in my feedback.

First, thanks for some of our spells back, you have not gone far enough, let me remind you of the spells we should have

Vigor baseline
Earthliving Weapon (Seriously, you bring back flametongue but not earthliving, why? Very clear oversight to me, I do not give you the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Ascendance baseline
Grounding totem
2 tidal waves
Glyphed totemic Recall
Windrush Totem
Fire Elemental

We still have multiple dead talents from lack of caring on your end, why is static charge still a talent, or downpour, or even wellspring which literally for 4 years hasn’t been able to proc resurgence btw. Mana tide doesn’t have its animation anymore, our damage spells while doing literally nothing compared to a holy paladin still costs a bunch of mana, surge of earth is laughably small ranged, cloudburst still replaces healing stream, can you actually do work on the spec? You’ve made it absolutely terrible over the last 6 years since MoP and you give us a singular new talent after all this? It’s not acceptable and you can do better.

At least bring back fun playstyles like conductivity, give us something that does good damage and good use, I don’t even mind having active regen from Elemental blast if you don’t want any version of conductivity in the game, but do something so shamans can be rewarded from damaging and please stop making the damage pitiful, it’s just ridiculous. Give shamans a reason not to just play paladins, let us take Ancestral Guidance again, just do SOMETHING. So tired of just the absolute neglect of the spec. @Holinka you said you’re the great unpruner at blizcon and after a year you’ve got almost NOTHING to show for it for restoration shamans. Please don’t pull the same garbage you did in Legion and pretend our changes will come later. Make things RIGHT

26 Likes

Just here to reiterate a change that would go a long way - please make Echo of the Elements baseline!

38 Likes

Getting a little frustrated with the lack of communication on Blizzards part.

Echo of the elements baseline is something we’ve been asking for for years.

Can we at least get some indication on why you don’t want to make it baseline if you aren’t planning on it?

Because it pretty much ticks all the boxes for making a talent baseline (ala Dire Beast, Shooting stars etc.)

47 Likes

i really was hoping for a buff to ascendance. It’s one the worst 3 min burst CDs at least from a PvP POV.

Was thinking of something along the lines of :

20-30 dec duration

Remove flame shock cd while asc is up.

Lava burst now spreads flame shocks to Nearby targets when hitting them.

You can also add a diff on cast effect instead. All targets with flame shock on them flare up taking a chunk of fire dmg and also increasing the fire dmg done to them when asc is activated


15 sec duration on gcd burst cd with 0 activation feels bad. Esp being a 3 min cd

Think it should be more in line with something like incarn / meta as far as the impact of having a big cd press feels.

I love the ability thematically but it’s so underwhelming to play and hasn’t been played instead of stormkeeper in PvP ever

26 Likes

Ele last tier has been nothing but Stormkeeper in BFA. I honestly wish SK would get moved back to baseline; it smooths out a lot of the game feel being on a 1m cooldown and having a noticeable effect. The last time I Ascended was Legion because of this.

I started trying it out here and it felt just as bad as it does on BFA. It’s visually iconic, but with LvB being as slow as it is, in the heat of the moment mixed with movement, you end up casting what, 3-4 LvBs and then you’re back to normal.

Ascendance looks fun but ends up not feeling that way.

14 Likes

I’ve played shaman since classic, both enhance and ele. Resto only when the raid needed it.

1 Like

Just giving some feedback on this + your other comments, as the few changes we have gotten have fixed some of these issues.

  • Vigor: currently on a very competitive talent row, and I see no reason to move it. People undervalue its significance all the time, but having it baseline would likely require nerfs elsewhere.

  • Earthliving Weapon: I have very little experience with this ability, so I’ll refrain from commenting on it.

  • Ascendance: With the High Tide nerf, this is also on an incredibly strong talent row, and while having it baseline would be welcomed (by all specs, probably) I don’t think this is something that Restoration needs currently. Having the ability to choose it on a competitive talent row is fine.

    • Side note to this, Wellspring is a good spell and will see lots of use in Shadowlands in Raids. The issue was High Tide had too much power on this talent row.
  • Grounding Totem: this is a PvP talent, and I don’t think there is a way they could realistically balance this ability in the current state of the game. Spell Reflect is already something that likely causes them many issues, and this would be even worse.

  • 2 Tidal waves: we currently have this? Now on the topic, I don’t agree with the TW nerf coming into Shadowlands, but that’s another story.

  • Glyphed Totemic Recall: Again, not something I have a lot of experience with, but reading it I really don’t see a reason to have this, as the vast majority of our totems are quite cheap as-is.

  • Windrush Totem: Again, we can talent this? I would rather see another talent created instead of Nature’s Guardian, as the other 2 talents are movement-focused, but having WRT as a talent is not a bad thing IMO.

  • Fire Elemental: This is getting more into the fact that Restoration Shaman damage is quite weak, and I agree. Personally, I’d rather us not need a CD like this to do some decent damage, and instead just have some incentive to dps during downtime + a way to do AoE damage effectively.

The dead talents + lack of damage has been brought up time and again, unfortunately with no changes.

11 Likes

Then I dont understand how you can enjoy spamming stormstrike while maintaining two buffs. Legions changes to enhancement made it a completely different class.

11 Likes