FEEDBACK: Shaman Class Changes

Isn’t Feral getting Innervate in Shadowlands?

Since it seems the “Covenants and Your Spec” doesn’t seem to have much mention, if any of conduits I thought I share it here.

In this post I specifically want to highlight the Endurance Conduits and the lack there of.

  • Astral Protection (Endurance Conduit) Reincarnation’s cooldown is reduced by 3.0 min, and reincarnating instantly grants you Astral Shift.
    As this ability scales up, it’ll make reincarnation actually functional. However, I do not understand why this is not baseline, as reincarnation is a pseudo immunity and does not reset on pull. This can potentially bring reincarnation to a point where it acts as an actual cooldown instead of “oops I fell off a cliff, better reincarn”.

Useless in PVP

  • Refreshing Waters (Endurance Conduit) Your Healing Surge is 15 % more effective on yourself.
    This one seems fine. However, since our spells use mana there is the potential (mentioned before many times) that the # of heals we can cast might be limited.

Ok in PvP, aside from dampening

I’m actually a fan of this because it makes base read non primal-elementalist earth elemental more of a defensive. Is an extra 20% HP great, meh, but it’ll rank up and be more useful. With primal elementalist its even better since (assuming earth ele is out) you now have more HP and a damage reduction to be used in a stun.

Overall
I wish there were more options for Defensive Conduits. I know there are some on the soulbinds, and they really help fill the gaps of defensives that shamans have. I just wish there were more conduits (even though its borrowed power) that could augment the spec and make the baseline abilities we have more powerful.

If we can’t have more defensives, why not make a conduit to make astral shift better? Literally if a conduit was “Astral shift can be used while stunned and now lasts 0.5 seconds longer” that would be amazing. Should the functionality of usuable while stunned be baseline, yes, but if not make it a conduit.

Why is there no Thunderstorm Conduit? That’s a pseudo defensive since it knocks people away?

Either way, would love to see more Endurance conduits to maybe fill in more of the gaps.

1 Like

^^^^^^^ THIS enh needs a win going into shadowlands otherwise community perception is going to just extend from bfa and we spend another xpac in the gutter

3 Likes

got jumped while questing on my enh and got cheapshotted into a kidney and was dead before I could actually react. his shadowstrike and poisons just destroyed me

2 Likes

Ok, so it’s not just me. I understand that PvP Trinket is an actual trinket now, but the fact that they have TTKs in a place now where you just die in a stun if you don’t have a trinket is absolutely absurd to me. There’s no time to actually play the game in PvP, and I guess that’s just how they want it to be.

In this week’s PTR and Beta builds, several changes have been made to bring the Maelstrom resource back for Elemental Shaman. Many months ago, we had opted to try not having a special resource on the Shaman class, and went forward with the plan to remove Maelstrom and rebuild Fulmination as the ability it was prior to the Legion expansion. Ever since the first Alpha builds, we have been watching reactions and listening to how people feel about using the Fulmination buff. Many changes were made to make more and more spells and abilities interact with Fulmination, any sort of randomness was removed, and we’ve wound up back in a place that feels almost exactly like Maelstrom, only instead of an easy-to-read resource bar on your unit frame, it’s hidden as a stacking buff in your buff bars.

After some discussion in the past weeks, we have decided to just revert the changes that replaced Maelstrom with Fulmination.

There are still a few remaining places where Fulmination may be mentioned, but those will either be changed to interact with Maelstrom, or be redesigned entirely in an upcoming build.

Thank you all for your testing and feedback!

50 Likes

I love you.

13 Likes

Am I dreaming?

6 Likes

Greetings,

let’s be happy, friends.

Yours sincerely,
Bloodmallet(EU)

16 Likes

Kudos for making this call. There has clearly been a push for “design elegance” by forcing Ele and Enh to use the same resource system, and its never worked out.

This change shows that the design team is wise enough to move past design elegance as a rule, and focus on the actual user experience.

20 Likes

Hey resto is a Shaman spec. Dont know if you guys realize they exist at this point…

28 Likes

Listening to the people, I love it!

All you Ele Shaman rejoice!

5 Likes

Thank you. It was necessary to revert to Maelstrom as it was never a problem for Ele during BFA. I hope now the dev team will be able to look at what is actually a problem for the spec and find a way to make it more competitive.

First and foremost, Flame Shock needs to be fixed. Reducing the tick speed and duration while leaving the cooldown untouched was a very bad change

19 Likes

Thank you!!!

1 Like

Just one crumb of feedback regarding the Chain Heal range nerf?

Pretty please :slight_smile:

30 Likes

Holy crap, this is amazing thank you! So happy you were willing to revert the changes!

1 Like

Switching back to Maelstrom is fine, but the spec still needs improvements and reworks in a lot of ways many people here have posted.

Would anyone be saying this is good if there had been no changes going into SL? That’s what this currently is. Nothing about talent changes? stat scaling? Flame shock duration? Survivability? Mobility? We currently have a worse version of ele compared to what we had in BFA regardless of maelstrom or fulmination.

As far as I’m concerned we’re still locked into 4-5 talents and likely 1-2 legendaries for the entire expansion.

35 Likes

This is a good change overall. It’s unfortunate we spent this long in alpha/beta chasing a design many players disliked from the start, but you made the right call in the end.

I would love some added clarity on any intended changes to our talent tree. Right now it appears many of our reworked talents are still in their Fulmination forms, but updated for Maelstrom. Several of these talents are just weaker forms of their BFA implementations, such as:

  • Aftershock no longer working with Earthquake
  • Elemental Blast continuing to be a spender of resources
  • Icefury-buffed Frost Shocks no longer generating resources

My hope is that we’re in a half-reverted state, and that future changes to our talent tree for the above are coming.

Additionally, I still have strong concerns about the following unrelated to today’s changes:

  • Stormkeeper remains a talent rather than a baseline spell, which is right now a clear choice over Ascendance in almost all circumstances. I think this ability will continue to be a “default” choice in most situations no matter which talent row you put it in. It was a wonderful piece of baseline kit in Legion, and I think the spec would feel better with its return.
  • Ascendance is one of the few on-GCD, long cooldown abilities that does absolutely nothing upon activation, making it feel bad to press. Additionally, it retains all the problems of old around Lava Beam casts getting canceled when Ascendance drops, etc. Lava Beam also deals approximately the same damage as Chain Lightning (EDIT: updating to accurately reflect the damage differences between Chain Lightning and Lava Beam), while also generating less maelstrom (3 per target instead of 4 per target).
  • Storm Elemental continues to “take away” the leveling perks for Fire Elemental, which feels bad to begin with, but also must be taken in lockstep with Primal Elementalist to be effective in many situations. I would very much prefer to see this talent redesigned to not work against our own leveling perks, or replaced entirely. For example, something that reduces the cooldown of Fire Elemental could fill a similar niche in making the “summoning elementals” part of the spec feel more present.
  • Ancestral Guidance feels too weak to every really consider taking in the majority of situations. Making it stronger could make it a viable alternative to Nature’s Guardian when there’s no specific reason to take Wind Rush Totem.
  • Flame Shock retains its 18 second duration and 6 second cooldown, making it fairly unforgiving for maintaining this DOT on even 3 targets without carefully managing the GCD. While 24 seconds might be considered a bit too forgiving, I think that a 21 second duration might be a nice middle ground here.
  • We had few interesting Azerite Powers that could influence Elemental’s gameplay, the primary one here being Lava Shock. I would personally love to see this return as a talent, perhaps in place of Static Discharge. It was engaging and gave Elemental a particular strength in spread-cleave encounters.
  • The return of Spiritwalker’s Grace is welcome, but I feel like I should stress that back in Warlords of Draenor (when it was last baseline), the glyph that reduced both its duration and its cooldown was a near-mandatory choice. Similarly, the Restoration talent Graceful Spirit is very popular for all the reasons the glyph was in WoD. Either bringing this talent to Elemental’s talent tree, or making the baseline SWG for Elemental be 60 seconds with 8 seconds of uptime (down from 120s and 15s respectively) would be a significant improvement.
28 Likes

As much as this has been a giant circle for Ele back to square one, I definitely think it’s important to take a moment and appreciate the fact that they’re willing to revert a design change like that at this point in the process after seeing enough feedback.

Cheers, Blizz. Now I continue to wait patiently to see how MSW stacks end up for Enhancement. Please do the spec a solid, preferably:

  • Baseline damage back to 100%, not 50%.
  • Each stack provides 10% damage and 20% cast time reduction.
  • Benefit caps at # of stacks consumed, not # of stacks present.

That way our baseline is the power of a 5-stack (not great, but OK in a pinch), our 5-stack is the power of a current 10-stack (heal feels worth spending on over damage, damage seems appropriate as well), and we don’t have to wait for 10 stacks in PvP for max benefit when we can die in a single stun anyway.

18 Likes

Thank you for the changes so far Blizzard!

Please do not forget to revert aftershock to work with earthquake again with these changes as it’s the only way the talent stays viable, and it was very fun for M+/AOE.

Please also consider giving us echo of the elements and storm keeper baseline and getting rid of the flame shock CD as part of this continuing kit rework.

Flame shock’s tick rate and duration nerf could also be reverted to its BFA state since we are back to maelstrom now.

Also, totem mastery, while being annoying to constantly place in PVE, gave us passive maelstrom resource generation which helped us on the move quite a bit. Perhaps consider making a talent that can do something close to giving us a small “ticking” amount of maelstrom to keep that same flow? Maybe this could include a talent that buffs lightning shield to accomplish this job and make that ability feel good to use. This could fix 2 problems with 1 change.

Another big spot that could use some work is to get rid of the abilities that seem to be just bloat and do nothing for our spec at this point. These abilites are primal strike, flametongue weapon and (to a lesser extent) lightning shield. As of right now we literally do not want to use primal strike or flametongue weapon ever. Lightning shield could be reworked to work with maelstrom in an interesting way somehow too, like giving us X maelstrom on being hit.

Lastly, we still just need a reason for raids to want to bring us over the other dps classes, especially for end bosses of raiding, where we historically aren’t brought outside of extreme circumstances.

We just lack the unique utility that makes us stand out. Even something such as an extremely small duration immunity could go an extremely long way for us. Please consider something like this!

We all have faith that you listen to our feedback and we all truly appreciate it! We all just want to make this class viable and fun for the entire expansion :slight_smile:

11 Likes