Because I’d rather there be a hurdle to me potentially switching, making it a choice with weight, rather than a situation where I feel like some form of reward is held ransom against me.
Not to mention in your scenario if I swap covenants I’m no longer eligible for the reward and thus there is no longer any hurdler OR reward to prevent freely swapping.
I wouldn’t say “almost no one”.
There are LOTS of players who push Heroic/Mythic raids and M+ keys hard enough where those numbers will matter - especially when you consider how “well” Blizzard does at balance.
Heroic raids are not so finely tuned that you need every %. Players who’s main content is Heroic raids are not so skilled that a slightly better trait is more impactful than improving mechanical skill. Heroic raids are the normal raids of most previous expansions and are not that difficult.
The amount of people who actually NEED that extra fraction of a percent is insanely small. We’re talking strictly HIGH level Mythic +, those pushing server/world first Mythic raids, and people in high level arena play. These are very small groups.
But the ransom is already there - except that it’s in the form of either gold or time and Blizzard is the only one who actually benefits from those resources.
Other players don’t actually get anything out of it.
This is why the idea is to discuss OTHER methods of providing value to covenant commitment that don’t solely benefit Blizzard through a restrictive system designed to provide a subjective benefit.
This argument has some merit - but I think the point being made is that even if it’s just those groups of players being impacted - why should they be negatively impacted in a way that only provides Blizzard the “cost”?
I like the idea about giving the “committed” players the cost in the form of game items like flasks/potions/etc.
That would actually provide meaning through commitment for those that actually commit.
But without something like that - it just objectively punishes people that want to change things up in order to play competitively across a bunch of areas of the game. All to no players’ actual objective benefit - just the company that designed it.
Maybe I’m too much of a hippy - but it sounds like “the man” double dipping and leaving the general population to bear the cost and not really get anything out of it.
I’m open for other ways to making commitment have meaning and value - because one that just requires gold and time sucks.
Your suggestion isn’t any less of a punishment. You only think it is because the reward you’ve chosen isn’t something you particularly care for.
If someone really wants the cosmetic reward, they can NEVER change. For the entire duration of the expansion. Or they lose the reward.
In the current system, swapping is simply a hassle. Maybe you lose gold. Maybe you fall behind a bit on character progression. But you can swap and regain what you’ve lost.
Edit: Not to mention that not swapping isn’t preventing you from playing the other roles. You’re just playing possibly sub-optimally.
I get where you’re coming from, but I think Blizzard wants to try and at least bring back meaningful choice to players.
Currently the choices you make in game have very little consequence, you can just change everything if you are slightly unhappy with your initial decision and it doesn’t punish you at all.
That’s generally not a concept of the RPG genre, players need meaningful decisions.
From what has been said of covenants the idea is that there are so many cogs that one covenant is not going to be overly beneficial over another in a specific aspect. Whilst one might have a specific trait that lends itself well to tanking, another might instead have another trait or a couple of minors that are just as beneficial instead so that the value you get as a whole is relatively on par for each role/class.
It’s not like any of the things are going to be role specific, things like the class ability you get vary depending on your spec. You aren’t suddenly going to be unable to heal because you chose the venthyr or something.
That’s kind of the point - it still provides meaning and value but in a way that doesn’t cost the player gold and/or time; both of which don’t actually go back to the other players - they only end up being valuable to Blizzard.
I’m open to any other ways of providing value to committing to a covenant - I was just suggesting one thing.
But in general, as others have noted, I would prefer that the sole objective beneficiary of the “cost” not be Blizzard. That’s what inspired my idea/option - whether or not players get or pass on the value behind their choice - it doesn’t solely benefit Blizzard in the forms of gold or player time.
I actually came up with the idea because it’s something I care for. To my point above - I asked myself “what would make the choice tough for me in a way that rewarded long-term RP commitment, but doesn’t give the “cost” to Blizzard?”
Some kind of xmog was the simplest answer I came up with. Then I extrapolated it to - so something “RP” oriented, possibly aesthetic. Then I figured a mount was a decent option to suggest as a thought starter.
I just don’t see why this is necessary to provide value. I’m all for providing meaning and value - but these “costs” don’t really help the game community or serve the players in any way.
Hence my idea that actually give players something of value in place of putting a barrier/cost in front of others.
This is another area that doesn’t add up - why put pressure on players into a sub-optimal area?
Why would you ever want to make players that are trying to be diverse and play all of your content “sub-optimal” - only to “charge” them if they seek the optimal path?
That seems nuts! But maybe that’s just me.
I think the point of the OP is to find OTHER ways that provide value and meaning that don’t solely benefit Blizzard that otherwise puts downward pressure on player performance when they’re trying to play the game in various roles - which was the reason they likely picked their class if they can serve in multiple roles.
I’m definitely more on the “hippy” train and while I plan on sticking with one Covenant solely for the transmog - I don’t want other players to be charged just so they can switch things up - all to just benefit the game company?
No thanks - I’ll take either rewards for my actions or some other idea.
Even if they gave the committed players compensation for what the non-committed players are doing - I’d pass. I just don’t see why they should have to pay anything when all they want to do is play the game in diverse ways, at the competitive levels - when Blizzard specifically tunes those competitive levels to be played with optimization in mind.
Except it doesn’t really do this. What it does is frees up everyone who doesn’t care for cosmetics to swap without restriction, in exchange for totally locking down those who do care into never being able to switch.
Instead of everyone being equally inconvenienced, it frees up one segment of the populace while chaining the other.
Yeah - freedom; such a horrible thing. I know we’re chained to debt and a crappy education system here in America - but freedom can actually be a good thing - the way switching talents and specs are good.
And yes - being “locked down”/committed in that sense then has meaning and value - you know…the thing that people are saying is beneficial. Except that in this case - the players that commit ACTUALLY GET SOMETHING. As it stands - committed players just don’t get charged; they don’t actually get anything of objective value for their choice.
I never said my idea was perfect.
I also never said it should be THE alternative.
I’m just trying to open discussion for MORE IDEAS.
Especially those that don’t have a negative influence on the players but still provide value for what choice you decide to make. And especially those whose penalties go towards the benefit of Blizzard.
Covenant switching? Nah you need to find which will fit your style the most in all specs. I’m in for this delicious alt friendly expansion. 4 mains at my disposal?? This expansion going to keep me busy for awhile, but as long the pvp and talent trees are looking good.
I’ve asked this before, and I’ll ask it again: What, other than fluff, are you proposing as a “Loyalty Reward”?
I’m sure they will all be balanced within 1% DPS, it will be a personal choice unless you are in the very very rare minority of world first mythic that needs every last decimal increase.
People get into bad habits thinking the stuff the upper 1% needs to do to tackle their unique challenge is the same stuff people rolling into a raid 2 months in need. I like to min max but reasonably, if I did world first that would change.
To recap, you wont need to min max covenants 99.99% of the time.
The covenant choice will become meaningless if people can change easily and just use the most broken ability at the time.
I would be fine if for example there were covenant specific rewards for the players who have not switched covenants for lets say a year and those rewards be character locked like mogs, mounts, titles etc but I am pretty sure blizzard wouldnt be willing to do that.
Maybe the grind for the last rewards such as mogs, mounts titles etc or other cool stuff could take so long resetting your covenant makes you start at 0
Keep in mind that Ion did say that it isnt just about the abillities you gain, the soulbinds aka small passive talents will be used as a form to balance the abilities as a whole. So kyrian’s single target passives might be mediocore compared to venthyr ones for example to balance kyrian’s strong single target abillity(for mages)
Now if someone is obsessed over being the most optimal both ability and soulbinds and cares about the most optimal dps path then as long as they are willing to forfeit everything else for the sake of DPS/efficiency then I would be fine, but they dont get to have both.
But why should we be rewarded for making a choice over having a penalty for not wanting to make a choice?
The game provides too many rewards for simply existing as it is.
For the majority of players having a potential reward isn’t going to deter them greatly from swapping, and once they have swapped once why wouldn’t they just continue to swap because they have lost the reward?
Like imagine if you got a cosmetic reward for never changing your spec, that is essentially what is being proposed. All it does is benefit the few people who were maybe lucky enough that they first picked the spec that they wanted.
Having a cost to change is simply a deterrent. But losing a reward just because you change? That’s unrecoverable. You don’t get any second tries.
Frankly I just want them to be purely cosmetic. I really don’t want to sink another 500k gold into rental abilities. I SHOULD never have had to pay to adapt to changing group needs though out the expansion.
I’m not proposing anything else at the moment. The point of the thread was to open the discussion to see what other ideas and options the community could come up with.
I don’t want the game to be one specific way that just suits my playstyle. I’m just curious what other ways we as a community can come up with that instead of giving the value to Blizzard - provides better value to the players.
Maybe it’s not something aesthetic - maybe it’s more tangible and usable, like a loot box filled with consumables. Or maybe a credit/discount on repairs.
Again just ideas and thought starters.
Thanks for asking the question - if you’re more than welcome to come up with any new ideas of your own instead of just digging your heels in and going along with what Blizzard wants.
That’s the whole point of a feedback thread this early in development:
To get ideas from the players and communicate those ideas to the developers.
The idea being suggested is to provide meaning another way that doesn’t charge players directly - especially when the “charge” goes to objectively and solely benefit Blizzard.
As noted above - giving meaning to sticking with one in the form of xmog/mounts/consumables/repair stipends/ etc. are OTHER ways of providing value to sticking with a choice.
You don’t always have to charge people for switching - instead you can reward players for being committed and playing the “RP” side of the game.
This is a great example of another way of going about providing value to choices that doesn’t cost players gold and/or time while also putting downward pressure on performance.