NOOO I love the look of it and the sound effect (at least the old one)… if it has to be passive or proc from something, fine, but I like cold blood.
1 Like
The one change I would love to see is more to do with TW and having to reapply our poison’s every single instance
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Well, see you next week my fellow rogues.
I’ll quote myself from 20 days ago;
10 Likes
Beta notes after beta notes, it gets harder and harder to have a desire to want to play my favorite class after not seeing a change or even getting a response because we are not Priests, Warlocks or Mages. Throughout Dragonflight, Shadow priest got a rework every single tier. Each spec got a rework and their hero tree got reworked 4 times already. Mages have gotten adjustments every single week since alpha, Warlocks have gotten changes every single week since alpha, yet us Rogues have gotten pretty much nothing but nerfs.
It’s very hard to not develop animosity. It’s hard not to feel like how Warlocks felt when Watcher was sat next to Lore and said “We don’t want you to play Demonology.” If you don’t want us to play rogues then just say it at this point.
I am trying to keep a professional attitude but it’s just slowly turning into rage at this point. Just give us some sort of feedback please. It will relieve some of the tension we have right now.
14 Likes
I’m a feral main atm but I REALLY took a liking to Sin in DF S3.
Seeing shadow dance being taken away really killed any hope I had of maining it though 
1 Like
“Too many buttons”
The solution was replacing Thistle Tea and Echoing Reprimand with competitive capstones.
6 Likes
I liked tea tbh.
What I’m looking for in a new main seems to be a dying breed.
Something that requires thought and brain power to setup and play correctly.
DISCLAIMER: This original post was not written by me, the rogue who thought of these ideas cannot post in the forums due to technical reasons and asked for help to post.
Assassination feedback V2.0
Base change:
[Cut to the Chase] change to:
[Envenom/Dispatch/Eviscerate] grants S&D by up to 3 sec per CP spent.
(keep S&D skill or not keep)
Assa’s tree change:
[Fatal Concoction] 1point: Increases your Nature dmg by 10%.
[Vicious Venoms] 1point: Ambush and Mutilate deal XX% additional dmg as Nature. (maybe 25%)
[Venom Rush] 1point: Ambush and Mutilate cost reduce 5 Energy.
[Doomblade] 1point: Ambush or Mutilate deals an additional XX% Bleed damage over 8 sec. (maybe 25%) (just 1debuff and take the highest dmg)
[Intent to Kill] 1point: Shadowstep’s cooldown is reduced by 20% when used on a target by your bleeding effect.
[Poison Bomb] 1point: Envenom smash a vial of poison deals [XX% atk-pow * per cp] nature dmg …
[Dashing Scoundrel] 2point: … 10% … 2 Energy.
[Dragon-Tempered Blades] change to:
“… but they have XX% less application chance.”(maybe 15%-20%)
Then the assa-tree logic more rational.
[left side = poison] [mid side = mix&below-hp] [right side = bleed]
some talent swap position, some talent swap position and change effect.
————————————————————————
Outlaw feedback V2.0
Base change:
[Cut to the Chase] change to:
[Envenom/Dispatch/Eviscerate] grants S&D by up to 3 sec per CP spent.
(keep S&D skill or not keep)
[Outlaw’s mastery] change to:
Increases the damage XX%. Increases the range of auto-attacks and melee abilities by X yards.
(X maybe 2or3 and revamp the talent about [Main Gauche])
Outlaw’s rogue-tree:
the [Shadowstep] talent node in the Outlaw’s rogue-tree change to be a choice node for [shadowstep] and [grappling hook]
Outlaw’s talent change:
[Requires Rogue] change to:
Dodging an attack will trigger off-hand attacks. This effect may only occur once every 1 sec.
[Fatal Flourish] change to:
Your off-hand attacks generate 5 Energy. (Slow attack speed weapon generate more.)
[Killing Spree] change to:
Rogue’s noumenon attack one time, then summon blade-scratch attack X time. (X= per cp)
[Summarily Dispatched] change to:
When your Finishing moves consumes 5 or more combo points, Dispatch deals 7% increased damage and costs 5 less Energy for 15 sec.
Max 3 stacks. Adding a stack does not refresh the duration.
[Crackshot] change to:
[Adrenaline Rush] is replaced with [Auto Adrenaline Rush].
[Auto Adrenaline Rush] = [Between the Eyes] also activates [Adrenaline Rush] 8 sec.
[Between the Eyes] increases XX% damage.
[Count the Odds]: change effect become a ultimate talent
some talent swap position, some talent swap position and change effect.
————————————————————————
Subtlety feedback V2.1
Base change:
[Cut to the Chase] change to:
[Envenom/Dispatch/Eviscerate] grants S&D by up to 3 sec per CP spent.
(keep S&D skill or not keep)
Sub’s [Rupture] change to [Shadow Throw]. (Name to be determined)
Shadow throw effect:
XX energy, 1 to 5 CP, 30 yd range, cooldown XX sec.
Finishing move that dealing shadow dmg per CP.
And gaining 1 use of any Stealth ability.
Subtlety’s talent change:
If have [Shadow Throw], maybe del [Sepsis].
[Shadowed Finishers] change to:
[Eviscerate] & [Shadow Throw] & [Black Powder] deal and additional …
[Replicating Shadows] change to:
Shadow throw deals area dmg. Dealsreduced dmg beyond X targets.
[Inevitability] change to:
… of your Symbols of Death by 0.8 sec. (was 0.5 sec)
[Planned Execution] & [Warning Signs]:
increases crit/haste by 7%/8%. (was 6%)
[Perforated Veins] change to:
After striking X times with [Gloomblade / Backstab] and Shadowstrike … deals XX% increased damage. (X maybe 2or3, was 4)
[Deeper Daggers] change to:
[Eviscerate] & [Shadow Throw] & [Black Powder] increase …
[Finality] change to:
[Eviscerate] & [Shadow Throw] & [Black Powder] increase …
1 Like
Please change the animation of Coup da Grace
I don’t want to get stuck
3 Likes
aka cut da grass
1 Like
Just providing some feedback as they progress with changes but I agree, Trickster felt really clunky while playtesting. Killing Spree is already an attack that requires you to lose control of your character for its duration. Adding Coup De Grace in on top of that feels terrible. There’s no flow to the rotation. This also probably feels worse than it should right now due to Killing Spree not working correctly but as of now, L spec.
Fatebound felt better as it is a completely passive hero talent.
As things currently stand? Yikes across the board for Outlaw.
PS. the Acrobatic Strikes change is comically bad.
6 Likes
I think I never mentioned it so far so while we’re here with all the feedback already given, might as well add:
Assassination spec tree;
Flying Dagger / Sanguine Stratagem choice node makes no sense and is dumb
Intent to Kill is silly
Pathing to SBS through doomblade is weird.
#deleteshadowdust #deleteCB
Something something please do something 
2 Likes
So the deathstalker’s mark that happened before were great, if long overdue. They did address some main concerns for the mechanic, and I do think that the mark mechanic is largely shored up for subtlety, and it also did help for assassination. I do also think, however, that there are some issues for assassination specifically that should be addressed, and probably in a way that won’t really cause issues for subtlety. The first one is extending the timer on The Darkest Night to 60s, to match the mark. The second is removing the stealth requirement from applying the mark, only requiring ambush or shadowstrike, not the stealth part.
For the first suggestion, a good example is mythic plus. You kill the trash, you have darkest night active, and are moving on. Your tank does a double pull, but there is a mob you want to focus on, which seems to be the fantasy of deathstalker, but it is in the second group so you delay a tad to aim for the second group and that mob, and the buff times out at 30s, while some rando AoE pulse drops you from stealth. Double vanish is not anything, so that won’t be a help. If the timer is longer, you at least have a chance to build with CP to get that full CP envenom to apply the mark at least. It will also help with ramp up since assassin does also have to apply bleeds for energy.
For the stealth requirement removal, think of raz, shadowflame amalgamation, or fyrakk, which have some for of transition. The darkest night procs off of using all marks, or if the target dies. In a transition scenario, the target does not technically die. Since assassination will sync vanish with deathmark due to improved garrote, and really is not gonna run double vanish in a raid scenario realistically, they won’t have a way to apply it. Blindside procs would at least give an option even if not the optimal. The longer timer also could help. You could also have blindside as an option for M+ since, technically, you would mutilate for applying caustic (something you 100% run in m+), and might have a proc to ambush and apply the mark. It may not be the best idea, but it will be something other than a 2 minute cooldown being the only option while in combat.
The increased buff duration and removing the stealth requirement will do nearly nothing to subtlety, since the only way to apply the mark for subtlety is stealth, vanish, or dance. Assasssination, having lost dance (not arguing for it come back), only has vanish, tied to deathmark and very static, and actual stealth. I feel these two ideas would be a massive boon for assassination without causing any issues for subtlety.
There are other concerns that really need to be looked at, such as Hunt them down, the AoE choice node (this should not go live at all like really?), the without a trace leg of the class tree, general stealth requirements for assassination, or, in my own opinion, revisiting Slice and Dice.
In a time crunch, I think the priority does need to be making the primary mechanic of the hero tree not overly onerous in a crunch time, even if it will be revisited in a future patch. Otherwise, you get WoD demonology memes…
1 Like
This thread is completely dead. How is that not the biggest of red flags to the dev team? How does that not scream out ‘we clearly failed here, no one is even talking about it’? Its so crazy.
9 Likes
Its somehow gotten worse with every Beta cycle (despite more people voicing opinions)
2 Likes
Issue is the attention certain specs get while others get none.
Some spec/class have amazing hero spec class fantasy like warlock.
Some spec/class get a crazy amount of updates every week like mage.
4 Likes
they are probably too busy updating mages, every beta cicle is like this.
Coup animation is bad, dont lock us in that. Speaking specifically for outlaw, we’re the only spec in the game (I think) that suffers heavily from downtime, the animation just makes it worse. Also, if this animation stays in place, people will just play fatebound because it’s better. I guarantee there will be almost 0 tricksters in TWW if this doesn’t get changed.
Fix the things that have been mentioned about KS throught this thread, like the camera locking and character going all over the place.
And last thing, even a small “We are reading this thread” blue post would be nice, feels like we’re talking to a wall here.
6 Likes
Yeah I mean, doesn’t help that rogue is the least played and represented class in the game, shamans were at 900 replies on their thread and we were barely at 200.
This isn’t an excuse for the lack of iterations and response to our feedback, its just… sad to see. It’s not like our feedback is for a complete rework, just tweaks, update to our trees pathing, removal of problematic or useless nodes (and also of the new nodes from months ago like Shadowheart). Removing dance, ok… but then what? Who knows.
Many other classes had feedback → Changes → Feedback → Updates. And I mean I get it, the sour mood in the thread isn’t inviting but I mean, we’re one good update post away from shifting that a complete 180
Ah well, since we’re still on the same topics we were months ago;
Deathstalker is abysmally terrible to use in M+, Fatebound is boring as all hell but we have no choice really for dungeons so, yay us.
6 Likes
If it’s the same dev as Dragonflight (Realz), then I wouldn’t expect any feedback at all during the beta ‘testing’. He doesn’t like interacting on the official forums and prefers the safe environment of Discord. You may be able to catch him with updates there. Don’t expect much, though. He’s the one who copy/pasted sub into sin and outlaw during the last rework.
8 Likes
I’m usually not one to be over-dramatic and negative about a beta cycle but Outlaw feels legit unplayable in its current state. Killing Spree does not work in modern WoW, I am doing dungeons on beta getting motion sickness while spam dying to this spell randomly putting me literally out of bounds where I have to relog to get teleported somewhere safe.
Coup De Grace also just sucks balls to play with, Why does my capstone hero talent actively make my rotation feel like I’m lagging? Why is there a Skyreach effect attached to it?
Where is any blue post about the class? What is going on this expansion.
9 Likes