Feedback: Rogues

In this thread, we’ll be testing and talking about Rogues in The War Within. Look here for posts from the development team as adjustments and bugfixes are made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

The War Within Beta

All classes’ Hero Talent trees are available for testing. Please keep in mind that this is a Beta environment:

  • There may be UI elements on the talent panel that are placeholder, including things like talent icons, text, or final UI art.
  • Some talents may not be functioning yet, or may be marked as not yet implemented (NYI).
  • Some new spell visuals and audio may still be a work in progress.
  • There are some talents that are not fully tuned yet. This is expected, and we will implement tuning adjustments throughout testing.

The combat design team has two big areas of focus at this time:

  • Finish work on changes to talents, especially wherever Hero Talents still need adjustments.
  • Fix bugs that are blocking testing of new talents.

Working from Feedback

Alpha feedback thus far has been of great benefit to us.

Now that we are entering Beta, our focus on Hero Talent trees is shifting away from reworks and design changes and towards tuning and refining. We want to thank you so much for all the forum posts, videos, and discussions all over the internet. Your feedback and impressions have been invaluable for bringing their identities to life and making them fit into what you love about the classes you play.

We are looking forward to hearing from more of you as you get a chance to try Hero Talents for yourself. We are specifically interested in feedback or impressions on these topics:

  • Hero Talents that you feel are “required” for your spec in a type of content, such as raiding or Mythic+, or that push you towards picking a specific tree. This could be due to damage profile, utility, defensives, or something else.
  • Hero Talent trees that you feel are either too strong or too weak in power level compared to other options.
  • Hero Talents whose functionality is confusing, unclear, or difficult to track during gameplay.
  • Hero Talent choice nodes that you feel could offer more meaningful choices.

Again, Thank You

Feedback throughout the Alpha test was highly impactful on our design of the game, and we look forward to refining every class with you in the Beta. Thank you!

The World of Warcraft Combat Design Team


Preface: I am only just getting into rogue as of Dragonflight so my experience is a bit more limited than others. This is feedback from the eyes of someone fresh to the class, please feel free to take things I say with a grain of salt as I don’t have much of the experience to back it up. This will be based on Sin and Outlaw specifically, as I don’t play sub. :slight_smile:

Outlaw and Assassin Rogue
Class feels generally the same as live, which isn’t a bad thing. Assassin rogues are in a decent spot as it is for PvE and while overall rogues do need an overhaul, it’s comfortable where it is.

Outlaw is still dependant on RNG components which is disappointing and needs more looking into. Albeit fitting the class fantasy of being a pirate who cheats rolls and smacks things around, it’s not a positive playstyle for many players both new and old. Definitely in more need of work than sin.

Deathstalker Sin
Deathstalker is in an odd spot for me. While it seems to be intriguing at face level with using a Plague system, I don’t find it to be in a playable spot as of the beta. Balancing the debuff is tight to get your capstone, and with only getting more stacks it can become overwhelming to input a tight rotation. It’s focus on AoE while Deathstalkers take out targets one at a time also removes some of the class fantasy from the Hero spec as a whole for me. Overall, not great, not horrible, just incredibly overwhelming to get used to and a confusing fantasy for AoE.

Fate Outlaw
Another RNG component. Albeit incredibly interesting balancing how you flip your coins, it’s going to put more RNG into the mixture making damage even more unbalanced for the spec as a whole. Loading the coins is an interesting concept, but as an execution it’s only decent in my eyes.

Trickster Outlaw
By far the best of the 3 in my opinion. Being a backended spec that is based on current rotation is nice as it doesn’t flip things up too much, but it also removes a lot of the RNG component or confusing fantasy that the other 2 Hero Specs provide.
Overall I do like the idea of building up strikes to do a larger finisher. Overall impressed with this specialization as a whole!

All 3 Hero Specs
Lack visuals! The only 2 things of note that look interesting are Fatebound’s coins and Trickster’s Coup de Grace. More visual distinction to make each spec pack a bit more of an “oomph!” would be gladly welcomed.

Closing thoughts
Rogue is in a tough spot right now, with a lot of the class feeling like juggling 30 different things at once. Albeit having a high skill ceiling class is wonderful, it’s got a lot of bloat that needs to be looked at and some things that can be juggled. The Hero talents “Fatebound” and “Deathstalker” only add to the issues that I’ve seen many rogue players post about on the forums. “Trickster” doesn’t add anything negative to the table, but overall it’s lacking in a lot of interesting choices, and visuals. Overall, from a fresh set of eyes on rogue, it’s by far my favorite class in the ~16 years I’ve put into Warcraft, but it’s also on the clunkier side.

Thank you for reading!


My feedback is purely oriented around Subtlety Rogue. I love this spec, it is a large reason for why I play this video game.

Deathstalker - The mark concept is cool but the supporting talents are just horrible. There’s no cohesion outside of some minor effects such as gaining something for hitting a marked or unmarked target, even these bonuses though are pretty not great. Also, the mark mechanic is currently not even utilizable in regular gameplay. This tree needs significant work. In my opinion it is the worst one out right now. My hope is that this is the 1st version and its SUPER unfinished.

Trickster - This tree is significantly better than Deathstalker. The concept is good and the supporting nodes are pretty cohesive with the main Unseen Blade/Dazed/Coup De Grace stuff. i really wish the randomness of the auto attack procs could be reworked in some way. Randomness on Subtlety will never ever feel good. This spec is all about planning and control over things to use them to your advantage to have larger burst windows. Trickster almost creates this, but the auto attack Unseen Blade procs kind of ruins it. Also why does Shuriken Storm not proc Unseen Blade, this will likely lead to some awkward stuff in AoE where you have to use Backstab/Shadowstrike to proc Unseen Blade. Or you may just entirely ignore it. Both not ideal results. This tree needs less work than Deathstalker, but with some refinement it could be incredibly awesome.

Baseline Subtlety - I’ll be completely honest, the spec is not in great shape right now. The rework did some good things like alter out damage profile in a positive way, reworked some things like Shadow Blades and Shadow Techniques to be significantly better. Our talent tree though is just really dull. Its littered with incredibly unfun and uninspiring talents. Lingering Shadows, Perforated Veins, Shadow Focus, Weaponmaster, The Rotten… Its honestly almost quicker to list the things people like in the Sub spec tree than don’t like. I really hoped 10.2 would bring some new banger talents (we did get Shadowcraft which is a ton of fun). One thing I would really love to see for Subtlety though is a rework of major cooldown cooldown’s and their durations. At the moment the spec has really strong 2 min cooldown’s in Shadow Blades and Flagellation (Flagellaton is 1.5 mins but you’d never use it alone in a Non-Shadowdust build), which is cool but it makes your lone Symbols of Death + Shadow Dance burst windows feel not very bursty. My suggestion for the cooldowns is to remove Deepening Shadows (the Shadow Dance CDR talent), and set Shadow Dance’s cooldown to 30 seconds. Then also set Flagellations cooldown to 1 minute and halve its duration to 12 seconds, the ramp of the mastery buff would likely need to be adjusted to still feel impactful. Lastly I’d like Shadow Blades’ duration halved to 10 seconds. The power lost from reducing the durations of the longer cooldowns should then be redirected into Shadow Dance. These changes in my mind would bring Subtlety back to the “olden days” where Shadow Dance was super impactful, and your burst windows were condensed. The removal of Deepening Shadows also would untether the cooldown of Shadow Dance from resource spending which could potentially open up some design space around energy/combo points during downtime.

I know the changes involving cooldowns are likely not reasonably attainable for 11.0 but I hope they will be considered for a later time. Something I do hope for though is introduction of some more new, fun, and interesting talents.

P.S. you guys will probably need to mess with the coefficient on Deepening Shadows. At the moment if you play a non-Shadowdust build, it feels pretty clunky. There is a kind of awkward pause in between your Shadow Dances during your cooldown windows where you are sitting there getting Secret Technique back, this feels really bad. Also, because we are losing the tier set from 10.2, you will likely frequently run into situations where you have to use Symbols of Death just by itself due to having to save Shadow Dance charges for your cooldown windows, or else you will not be able to use 2 Shadow Dances in your Flagellation + Shadow Blades. I know this might sound like some dumb complaining, but please try it for yourself, it doesn’t feel great.

Edit: Oh also the animation currently associated with Coup De Grace GCD locks you for like ~2 seconds. This is unfathomably bad, and neither spec will appreciate this. If the choice is between having an animation that looks like some recycle of Fury Warrior Rampage that GCD locks you and no animation, I and I think everyone else would prefer the no animation.


Hello, this post will primarily focus on Trickster(sub).

I will try to provide feedback given my experience on beta/alpha regarding gameplay, visuals, and fantasy.

Trickster sub :sub
Gameplay: The core of the gameplay revolves around stacking your the Flawless form buff, into a powerful finisher which further empowers the rest of your finishers.

The good:

  • This feels perfect for sub. More power in dance, sounds great.
  • This further encourages a playstyle of setup for your next dance outside of dance and collect the rewards in your next dance, which is what we have been asking for. I love this.

The bad:
While the tree overall is exceptionally well crafted (to me), there are a few issues with the tree.

  1. The randomness of procs from unseen blade. In my testing i have proc’d 4 unseen blades anywhere from 15 seconds to 59 seconds. While there are ways of playing around with different stack counts (for example, follow this setup if dance is coming up with 2 stacks, this one with 3 stacks, etc), this could lead to very complex gameplay experience, further pushing away the remaining (however small) sub players.

  2. The interaction of coupe with finality: eviscerate → similar to above point, addition of this talent with the random procs of the unseen blade causes very complex instant rotational decisions that could be overwhelming for even veteran sub players.

  3. AOE. The concept is clear. you can proc unseen blade which fazes the target using single target only abilities. which then allows you to cleave 7 additional targets. But the lack of feedback regarding when your auto attacks have reset the ICD of the unseen blade means you would be gambling every gcd not knowing if your next single target builder, would get you the form or not. (perhaps allow storm to also proc this or provide a clear feedback when the ICD has been reset)

  4. degenerate gameplays. If I have 4 stacks of unseen blade, and I know that I am getting close to 20 seconds ICD as dance is coming up (which is not uncommon from my testing), then I have every incentive to not backstab and instead storm, to preserve my next flawless form stack. so I can proc coupe, get a stack on my next builder, sectech get 2 more stacks. this promotes storm in single target, and not so great gameplay.

  5. The opener. the opener feels exceptionally bad as it is right now. you will get 1 stack from strike from stealth. 2 more from your next 2 strikes after sectech. which would put you at 3. given that our opener will have us doing a dance, a short intermission to reset sectech cd, another dance, this would mean that if I dont get a natural proc on my first strike in dance, I have no choice but to storm during blades for almost 10 seconds, until I can gaurantee that coupes buff falls inside the next dance. otherwise I would be completely wasting the buff, which is a very large buff…

  6. the distract smoke bomb node… this actually does nothing. like literally nothing… while taking away a utility button from rogues.

  7. the “bladeflurry node”. I am not sure about the tuning of this, but this should probably in its tuning incentivize people to use evis over BP when the buff is active. prio damage is only really meaningful in very high content (and even then, its useful only on a handful of pulls in each dungeon). in its current tuning, you would rather just use a strike/bs to get the flawless form buff and continue black powdering, ignoring this node in its entirety.

The ugly:
Coupe de grace. This thing currently GCD locks you for 3 seconds almost. I setup a dance/evis macro to basically waste as little time as possible between dance and coupe, and after coupe, then i spammed strike as fast as i could. I would lose 3 gcds in dance every single time. as it stands, this makes testing incredibly unfun.

Last Comments regarding state of subs baseline tree.
there is almost nothing redeeming about this tree as it stands after putting 2nd vanish charge in the class tree and locking it behind 3 dead talents.
we are looking to have 0 choice as to what we take, the entire capstone area of sub was dust vs db. that gave you a choice (atleast in keys). but now its only db, there is no choice remaining. the remaining capstones outside of db, shadowcraft (which also gets significantly worse without the s3/s4 tier), and danse, are completely and utterly useless (at least in pve content). additionally in the middle section of the tree, we again, have no meaningful choices. almost all the nodes in there are either entirely mandatory like relentless strikes, or secret technique, or purely a node that a robot tells us this ones slightly better than the other one because they all do the same thing (either give us a tiny bit of energy, a tiny of combo points, or a tiny bit of passive damage amp).
there are no choices remaining in the tree, no interesting or exciting talents. either mandatory things that the spec cant function without (relentless strikes), or completely outdated and boring talents that are almost identical in what they do and we only pick one over the other cuz the robot said so. (Shadow focus VS master of shadows, the first dance vs premeditation, etc…)
additionally by putting SF in the position of without the trace you have further removed any notion of choice, because now SF is the only technically dps node in an otherwise entirely utility node.
Many people hated dust, and rightfully so (it should never have been mandatory in all content), but atleast it gave sub a niche, a choice in talents, and and alternative playstyle. additionally it made the best talent in the entire subtlety rogue tree (shadowcraft) shine, by letting us have symbols over all of blades. but now without it, the first half of baldes is going to feel great. the second half? well… it feels like a slug. like a boring intermission trying to farm dance back, just so we can watch ourselves over cap on shadow technique stacks and tell ourselves its fine, surely this is better than having dust.

Sorry for the extra long post, and thank you for taking the time to read this.


I like your post overall. I will have my own long form post soon after more testing tomorrow, but just want to touch on the Dust point; while I agree we need some options for Sub, Dust still has to go. It chokes the spec so much, its an alternative sure, but its not a good one. As long as it exist the spec can’t stand on its own, as the damage has to take into account we might have CDs way more often than we do.

Hope you all understand my point, as I am not trying to be contrarian just explaining my anti-dust stance.


to add on top of whats already been mentioned regarding subtlety:

another issue that hasnt been mentioned yet regarding trickster (sub):

  1. the defensive node. this node while weak atleast could potentially be useful at times. when you could proc the fazed debuff with feint, this would guarantee that feint would give you the dr. now, its completely random, making it almost entirely useless. and the competing choice node well… if something is going to kill you through 40% dr and you need a 50% dr to live it, then youve already wipe because every other class in your group is dead.

the defensive nodes are completely useless as they are now.

  1. the bladeflurry node, the shadow part of evis, which is a somewhat large part of its damage gets reduced by armor when nimble fingers hits other targets with it. an expected interaction. however, this makes this already under tuned talent even worse.

now the fun part, a list of bugs so far:

  • Secret techniques damage is completely gone both in logs as well as the yellow in game number.
  • coupe does not work with echoing reprimand
  • coupe shadow eviscerate part seems bugged and is significantly lower than it should be. (an order of magnitude lower almost)
  • secret technique does not reset the icd of the next 2 shadow strikes
  • the gcd lock of coupe (I hope this is a bug and not intended behavior)

Deathstalker feels really bad.

You are incentivized to not apply additional stacks of Deathstalker’s Mark, as you get a bonus when you consume all of the stacks, which makes your Subterfuge or Shadow Dance windows feel incredibly awkward, in that you are incentivized to avoid using Ambush/Shadowstrike during those windows.

Also, requiring a max combo point (rather than a 5+ combo point) Envenom/Eviscerate to reapply Deathstalker’s Mark via Darkest Night results in overcapping of combo points during that window.


It’s completely counterintuitive to general rogue design as well as what a “Deathstalker” in lore is. Very disappointed with rogue overall, just feels like they didn’t care about it and rushed everything in our class for beta.


My feedback is specifically for outlaw.

  • Distract makes 0 sense as a offensive ability, and we are being incentivized to use it to optimize our damage, which feels really bad at the moment. Not sure what other direction you could go, but it needs to be changed, imo it feels even worse than feint as an offensive cd. Also, we can’t even use it in combat, it simply won’t let us target in combat mobs.
  • Fatebound is currently removing you from stealth if you use slice and dice, so it feels bad to test.
  • Killing spree is not working at all.
  • Losing acrobatic strikes feels like I lost my arms, can’t hit anything. Honestly, it feels like the +3yd to melee range should be the default to every melee class if the issue was a few classes having it.
  • The 4 set bonus from DF season 3, the one that refreshes a RtB buff duration, that should become a talent node, it is MANDATORY to have and made the spec work in df s3/s4, for me it’s worse than losing the acro. The spec has a lot of damage variance due to losing it, and it’s honestly the best thing outlaw had to fix RNG in RtB.
  • Please rework the outlaw tree so that we don’t have 2 pointers in it. It feels extra bad that a lot of specs can choose multiple capstones and others can’t, and imo if we could get 1 or 2 extra capstones, it’d be a lot better.
  • Having to pick Ace up your Sleeve or Precise cuts to be able to get Fan the Hammer might be even worse than the 2 pointers. Either make Ace back to what it was (gives 5 points instead of 4) or completely change Precise cuts.
  • The big thing about Underhanded Upper hand was that it gave us the ability to keep Adren rush up for a long time, and it aligned with Crackshot being our best damage window, but it seems like the goal is to move away from the stealth window playstyle. Combine that with Cut to the chase being baseline for every rogue spec, that talent feels meh. Since we won’t be in stealth too much anymore, Adren will fall off sooner so we need to press blade flurry more as well (and in M+ we basically always press BF due to Deft Maneuvers).
  • Honestly, SnD should be a passive, I know essentially nothing changed from DF to now, but ever since I started playing rogue, SnD NEVER felt good to press.
  • Echoing Reprimand would be a lot cooler if it had a rogue theme, the blue thing always reminds me of Bastion.
  • Grappling hook is bugged for a long time, it should behave similarly to Heroic Leap, and not put the ability in CD if we can’t go to targeted place.
  • And lastly, about both Hero Talent trees, I might have to wait for guides or ppl that theorycraft to confirm this, but they feel completely passive and don’t change the way I play at all, I’ll still use finishers on full/full-1 cps.

Initial feedback mainly about Assassination rogue, will go in details sometime next week;

  • Energy

With the changes to the talent tree we have precious few ways to increase our energy regen. Currently on AoE it will be as always, not a problem due to the number of targets.

However low target count, or pure ST, energy regen feels abysmally slow. We have high cost abilities, next to no return on them, and are stuck to wait most of the time.

This is an issue particularly in regards to maintaining either A) a Envenom chain while maintaining bleeds and B) Sanguine Blade uptime

I know there are differing opinions when it comes to energy regen, I welcome the conversations. That said, while I am not advocating for energy flood, I do think that the energy regen in the situations I highlighted above just feel plain bad and lead to down time with no button press way too much

  • Deathstalker

Deathstalker is just… not it. I am sure this feedback was given already late alpha, but the way the marks currently work are just not viable for us. We apply too many marks (which is ridiculous to say really) and can’t even consume them all most the time (see above energy starvation)

Beyond the issues with mark itself, the rest of the hero talent tree is a collection of random buffs that don’t really interact at all with the core concept of the tree.

  • Fatebound

Mechanically… it works. Thematically; I hate everything about it for Sin, does not fit the fantasy at all.

Practically; I don’t like the rng, sure you get coins often enough, yeah you’ll get 7 in a row fairly easy, but it will eventually boil down to RNG on how well it performs.

When you couple the coin with Sin’s profile, well… the dmg% amp might be good ruing Deathmark, but wont do much when we are doing nothing pooling energy. Just an example of the many ways I can see this tree just feel bad waiting for good RNG.

Finally the capstone is boring and underwhelming.

  • Assassination Tree

So far same old tree with minor changes, so no big complain. I think there are opportunities to change some pathing, allow some more fun and colorful combinations of different abilities near and past the second gate - but I’ll have to think on it and post again later.

One thing of note: choice node with Flying Daggers / Sanguine Stratagem makes no sense to me, how are these two a choice feels weird, their placement feels weird.

More on this later.

  • Core rogue tree

Can we let go of Echoing reprimand now? I don’t know but is anyone actually liking this ability still? With the hero talents we have, is there any world where we don’t go double vanish, tea and cold blood or stratagem?

I do like the new iteration on Acrobatics strikes, thats cool. If we had to lose the range upgrade, then at least the alternative is nice.

  • Set piece

Not much to say, like most they are very passive and just ok. That said, Tincture lasting only 6 seconds will make it feel bad in M+ situations, setting up bleeds pack to pack might be just slow enough for the tick to proc Tincture and we’ll lose the buff whenever there isn’t a immediate chain pull.

It’ll be perma up on ST, but definitely could last longer to help maintain in M+ - if we die fair game. If the tank waits for a pull, fair game. But if the pull is just slightly slower than immediate, we lose the buff.

As I mentioned, just quick initial thoughts, love you all, will write more later


I agree with your goals of toning down energy regen levels, fully appreciate this and hope you stick to your guns on that. I still feel like even with that in mind, the GCD gets very quick with haste, and the class (specifically moreso outlaw in my experience) is still incredibly fast-paced with A LOT to juggle. Slice and Dice and Roll the Bones CANNOT exist at the same time; I don’t know how many times people have begged for one of these to be removed, and yet here we still are. Playing rogue at this point feels like juggling while trying to breakdance.


Tried out Trickster Subtlety Rogue yesterday. Most of what I was going to say has already been mentioned in earlier posts, such as Coup de Grace locking you in place and the randomness of Unseen Blade procs, but I did have one insight that hasn’t been touched on yet involving the “No Scruples” hero talent.

When I was running with this, my first instinct was to create a macro to cast Distract at my feet, so that I could focus on my rotation rather than waste time aiming Distract. However, this creates an issue where mobs are then pointed towards you, and thus can parry your attacks, including the finisher you were trying to buff in the first place, such as Eviscerate or the Coup de Grace from the capstone talent.

To be fair, this should almost never happen, due to how Fazed works, but it could become an issue when getting off of a target due to area denial mechanics. I feel that this could be mostly solved by making Coup de Grace un-parry-able in PvE, though I’m not sure how that would affect PvP.

Overall, Trickster feels rather… passive for Subtlety rogue, which isn’t a bad thing considering the complexity already in place.


Been running dungeons today on the Eleven server, got some more thoughts;

It’s just not fun. I’ll echo what I said on my previous first impression post; the RNG of which buff you have is of the lolsorandom variety, you “control” when you roll coins, sort of, but in reality you are just relying on biased % rolls to get two different effects, two effects which you would otherwise want actual control over which one you have when

DMG% increase during DM, cool. When we are completely out of energy because ST energy regen is abysmally slow as I also said previously? not so much.

Fatebound here feels indeed like you are at the whims of fate, which is not how you want to feel as an assassin, at all. You want to control fate, you want to seal the fate of your target.

Not ‘let me flip a coin see how I feel today’

Sorry for the rant, I just really can’t find anything fun about it for Assassination.


Acrobatic strikes needs to be reverted. Outlaw depends on uptime and with this reduced range and mechanic vomit in dungeons it will reduce the uptime and is kinda cringe to watch your adrenaline rush tick out. If this change doesn’t get reverted you might as well delete Outlaw.

That said, Trickster going for Killing Spree and I do not like this at all. Killing spree forces your camera to instantly switch to a different view and causes bad eye strain for me. Effectively speaking this entire hero talent tree is unusable for that reason.


Uh… Why not? They don’t clash at all.

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Cut to the chase is now baseline on all specs, just need to cast SnD once


And hopefully they will make SnD passive and we will never have to cast it because it’s not fun to cast even if only once. Class fantasy wise it makes zero sense, I build up all these combo points for the big finishing move and…nope just going to auto attack faster. If SnD actually did anything else and then applied the buff it might be fun to push, or just make it passive and we don’t have to push it and free up some room on our bars. We’re already heading that direction, SnD was removed because people hated it. SnD returns and was annoying/unfun to upkeep, especially for assassination so we got cut to the chase. Turns out it’s annoying/unfun for all rogues so they make cut to the chase baseline. Let’s just…cut to the chase and either remove it or make it passive. It can still be a buff, just have it apply when you use a finisher.

On the same topic of boring/annoying gameplay, energy regen. I said it in DF Alpha and beta so here we go again, thistle tea and all energy regen/expansion talents need removed. They cannot be balanced around. Either energy is in a good spot, which makes them super OP or completely useless; if energy regen is awful it makes them forced talent picks. There isn’t an assassination build that doesn’t use thistle tea because their energy regen is awful in low target situations and only okay in high target ones because of a talent. Don’t take those energy talents and you’ll wish you brought a pack of cards to play solitaire while you wait on regen. Removing them or making them baseline is the onlyway to balance things.


Visuals and overall coolness factor is severely lacking for all rogue hero talents.


Regarding the changes to trickster in sub vision, I liked it in general, but there are some changes that could be made:

  • In the other version of the trickster, the unseen blade activated the debuff and the area damage in the current build does not, this ends up damaging the rogue sub’s aoe. Either put the proc in the unseen blade’s area back or allow the shuriken storm (ponit combo generator too) to activate the unseen blade. I don’t think the Cloud cover is the solution as it leaves the unseen blade dependent on the tank to stay still and the CD is too high
  • The trickster’s defensive node with the change has now become very random which is not cool, this talent should be changed
  • the animation of the coup da grace remains weird and non-functional, in some moments it even gives a random dadh
  • Disorienting strikes is not working

Not really a theorycrafter or high end gameplay kind of player so I can’t contribute there, but visually the Hero trees are extremely lacking.

Deathstalker just gets a random purple spiral around you, and Fatebound’s coin toss looks lackluster, like you just dropped money randomly; Trickster is a bit better, especially with the Coup de Grace slices but the Unseen Blade attack is barely noticeable. If there are going to be so many passives at least give us some cool looking effects, since Rogue abilities as a whole aren’t that amazing to look at and need some visual updates in general (Shiv, Slice and Dice, etc.).

Rogues use all sorts of poisons, gadgets, tools and whatnot, I feel like there’s plenty of imaginative options tbh.