Feedback: Rogues

I mean, Realz posts occasionally in the Rogue discord but not that often. He’s at least reading feedback, but yeah the lack of actual communication is really depressing.

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We were ignored for all of Shadowlands, I don’t see that changing.

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Continuing on from previous post about class talent tree changes:

With the most recent talent changes it feels like a lot of the forced path talents are overlapping/redundant.

As a sub rogue with Improved sap, tight spender, relentless strikes, shadow focus, and rushed setup there are 5 energy cost reduction talents. This feels like a lot of redundancy where it’s barely possible to ever get energy starved especially when doing deeper stratagem 6-7pt finishers.

Also locking Marked for Death and Cold Blood behind 3point talents kind of forces you to just ignore the left half of the talent tree now. It’d be really nice to see Marked for Death swap places with Deeper Stratagem on the Class tree and Tight Spender just be replaced with something else or moved elsewhere.

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yep the entire shadowlands y’all have recieved 0 feedback and support even though all 3 specs have been s+ tier in arena/bg/rbg/epicbg, mythic+ and raid throughout the entire expansion :yawning_face:

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Hmm, I don’t remember assassination being s+ tier in anything during whole S1-S3. However, I remember Doomblade legendary bugged and not working in PvP since Alpha and was fixed after one month of SL S1. We are playing different game probably.

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The class talent tree really feels like you’re getting forced into shadow dance for basically all specs and content. Thistle Tea is just bad, and CB and MfD behind 3pt talents it really feels like the only option.

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Following talents are bugged not working correctly for outlaw rogues in dragon flight beta.

Precise cuts - doesn’t seem to apply the additional damage
Greenskin wickers - doesn’t give the buff

heavy hitter- doesn’t anima charge combo points

count the odds- not giving buffs with dispatch at a correct rate

dispatcher - does not buff the damage

count the odds - doesn’t seem to like going past 1 minute on buff duration

shadowstep - doesn’t work unless you turn off auto self cast

take em by surprise - there’s some broken things regarding this when you unlearn it

subterfuge - maybe it’s beta lag but you can press a stealth attack off the GCD at the end of the timer and it’ll say you must be in stealth and won’t go off.

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As an assassination rogue i want to speak about Deathmark:

At first i was intrigued about this replacement/rework for Vendetta. Now after playing with it a few days i have to say, please just bring back Vendetta:

  • Vendetta used to give:

1 - 60 of energy during 3 secs when used
2 - Make the enemy visible while stealth (this point was KEY in some situations)
3 - 30% (20% in PVP) bonus of dmg.

With all of this Vendetta lasts 20 seconds

  • Deathmark loses all of that and gives:

1 - One extra bleeding (which doesn’t affect Venomous Wounds)
2 - Duplicates the effects of your Garrote, Rupture and lethal poisons

With all of this Deathmark lasts 15 seconds

And also worth saying that in the beta Venomous Wounds is not affected anymore by Internal Bleeding.

Try to play vs Survival Hunter and you will understand how it feels, or vs any Kyrian player with that potion that removes all your stuff.

Vendetta was introduced back in Cataclysm, and since that it was working good, with some little changes here and there every expansion, but it was working good. Please don’t change something that works fine for something that doesn’t give any utility more than just more dmg and can be dispelled with just 1 button.

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Its back on 30% in SL just to be clear here.

But agree with everything else. Kyrian potion is thankfully gone in DF but there’s new toxic stuff coming against rogues and that is Warriors and their new talent Bitter Immunity which dispels bleeds, then u have Evokers with another bleed dispel every 1 min.

I would suggest bring back Vendetta and put it as a Choice node with Deathmark.
And add Dispel protection for Deathmark if that ability is going to stay in DF.

Anyway, Its hard to say how Deathmark will work damage wise, since its still not working neither on Beta or PTR. It would be fine to get atleast some more bugfixing next build. Right now, rogues are in terrible state and all we are getting is more upcoming hunter changes every week.

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i hecking love the rogue forums

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Imagine telling the best pvp hunter in the world that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about LOL

All 3 rogue specs have been s tier or better for most of the expansion in pvp. That’s not really debatable haha. This includes assa. The spec is still shining this season in RPS. S3 was sepsis 1 shot cheese. S2 had the same FoK 1 shot build that’s viable now. I don’t really remember s1 anymore, but I highly doubt assa was bad then.

S3: https://youtu.be/cT3CJLCirdI?t=176

S2: https://youtu.be/RO7DK8Th8eI?t=119

S1: https://youtu.be/ocffrPaj37Y?t=696

Alright so you got him - S1 assa was just A tier… oh no.

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lmao what? Ignoring pvp because it’s impossible to get accurate numbers. Both Outlaw and Sub were average at best in M+. Assassin was the literal worst. Like 2nd least played and highest scores were abysmal compared to every spec/class. Rogue was the least played class by a lot in M+ S3. S+ teir my foot. But, continue talking about things you have no knowledge about.
:clown_face:

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rogue is the best class in wow idk what ur talking about nothing even comes close to this abhorrent abomination of a disgusting class, its s+ tier every single season of every season expac

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How is it impossible to get accurate numbers for pvp. Tons of websites track play and spec volume and win rates.

Also like saying outlaw and sub were both “average” in mythic plus is kinda cringe:

You’ll note that sub is s tier here for season 3

https://youtu.be/si8jpoenEwk?t=152 → Here’s a video talking about how outlaw is S tier in S2

https://youtu.be/0TzTuc4PcEY?t=765 Here’s another
https://youtu.be/bgiqCFJbgKc?t=1303 Here’s another, and this one points out that sub is heavily played in higher keys

I won’t find multiple for s1, just because like I feel like I’ve already proven the point. Here’s a single one for s1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t6fzTLH7c&ab_channel=OneAzerothTV

Outlaw was pretty op for m+ in s1

Saying outlaw and sub were “average” in M+ is actually so crazy false it’s wild.

IMO - I think the Deadly Precision talent should swap places with Seal Fate. Feels pretty bad playing Sin without the extra CP from crits. It’s also awkward getting a talent that makes it so your CP generators have a higher chance to crit since there’re no real reward behind it.

Another thing would be changing some of the three point talents in both the class tree and the Assassination tree. For example, Lethality and Alacrity being two point talents makes getting to CB or MfD feel like a sacrifice of other talents just to get to them. The Sin tree having triple capstones stuck behind three point nodes also feels bad since it just feels like you have to go through a talent dump just to get to where you want to go instead of being able to use those points elsewhere in the tree.

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Plus there’s no reason to put 3 points in alacrity as there’s no difference between 1 and 3 points in it from what I saw 3 days ago.

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I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems that the combo point tracker is not clearing the combo points after spending them. it sometimes looks like I have 1-5 combo points after performing a finishing skill, but when you try to use skill, you don’t have combo points available for that.

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It’s bugged at the moment. You can’t assume anything on beta is actually working as it’s supposed to.

The way it’s probably meant to work is that each stack increases the haste granted. So right now the values are wrong, but it should probably be 0.7%, 1.4% and finally 2% per stack (like on live).

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I’m not sure if anyone has said this before so excuse me if they have.
Going over the talents again since the antrophic poison moved, there is several things that don’t make sense, primarily amplifying poison and dragon tempered blades.
Amplifying poison is redundant without dragon tempered blades as DP and antrofic poison will always be the top two pics. I have no math to back this next part up but I can’t see amplifying poison out damaging KB. If it does then it begs the question why give KB back as DOA??
Dragon tempered blades is out of place competing with KB and IC. In my opinion it should be much further up and a staple for what sets assassination as the master of poisons, maybe remove the double shiv talent then have improved shiv into dragon tempered blades.
Also, again now more so, can assassination have more poisons added to the spec beyond the unimaginative ones we currently have?!

What’s others thoughts on DTB placement?

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Sounds like someone who has never played Rogue. Post on your main if you want me to take you seriously. Otherwise, /ignored

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