Feedback: Priests

Why would you play Shadowpriest if you hate channeled spells? We’re THE channeled spell class and always have been, and always should be.

Channeled spells are objectively better gameplay than cast-time filler. You can cancel a channel mid-cast for partial damage, you can’t with cast-time filler spells.

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I don’t think that was the ideal rotation, even with CoP. Spike does seem to be an afterthought in this tree and I wouldn’t be heartbroken to see it go. If Blizz insists on keeping it, they should make an effort to create two distinct playstyles for each, which would require reworking quite a few talents. But from the last blue post, it sounds like that isn’t going to be an option, so I’d rather them fully commit to one or the other over what we have now.

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I don’t hate them, but our fillers currently lack identity. It’s also strange that one channeled spell generates insanity in ST while the other dumps it in AoE. I think the spec should function more consistently between ST and AoE and the use cases between spells needs to be more clear.

Also, I do not view Shadow’s identity in being tied up in channeled spells. Its primary identity is DoT management and interaction.

But I will not argue this point further; I do not wish to be drawn into protracted discussions with other players.
I’m only posting feedback in the vain hope that a dev will read it and fix shadow so that I don’t have to give up this on playing this spec for the first time in years.

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Mind sear as a spender definitely has problems, and I think those can be fixed, but I don’t see how Mind flay is terrible to play with.

I very much agree with this.

Mind Flay is the longest standing iconic shadow spell. Having a channeled filler is part of what makes shadow what it is.

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Mind Flay not being Shadow’s filler would be about as weird as completely removing Shadow Word: Pain or Frost Mage no longer using Frostbolt, it’s been an iconic Shadow spell since Vanilla.

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I like the Mind Spike play we currently have on the beta and I hope it survives to launch and beyond. It’s a breath of fresh air to me. It’s the first time I’ve really enjoyed playing Shadow in all the years I’ve had my Priest. Prior to now, I was strictly Holy, with the occasional dip into Discipline. I really hope Mind Spike and all its support stays.

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I really find Idol of Yogg-Saron underwhelming. There is no control over when the thing from beyond spawns. It would be really nice if you could expand upon this talent and allow it to be more active. My proposal is to not just summon a thing from beyond, but instead become it. Change the talent so that after X amount of shadowy apparitions, the next time you press shadowform you become a thing from beyond and your spells are empowered for x seconds.

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I’d actually really like Void Eruption being an uncapped 50 insanity cost Burst AoE. It’s a wicked cool looking spell.

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I haven’t play Affliction Lock since before they added Malefic Grasp as the spender, but can’t Affliction choose between Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul as its filler?

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Yes, but that hasn’t been a long standing thing that existed since vanilla, and largely it just comes down to numbers tuning, which is something I think at least a handful of us would like to avoid.

Mind flay is the shadow spell we’ve had all along that identified shadow from an early level to even now, seeing it wholly replaced by mind spike would be extremely disheartening.

I get not liking channels, but it’s really like saying that you love playing rogue, you just hate combo points, it’s integral to the identity of the spec. Having a channeled filler differentiates shadow from other casters.

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The defualt is shadow bolt, they can choose to talent into drain soul

As for all the mindspike stuff

belive it or not there are some people who liked spike,

But they kinda forgot a part, iirc clarity of power that made it work better which was a reduced cd of mindblast,

Im not 100% sure on how it would feel and work out rotation wise but there could esaily be some differentation between void eruption and dark ascension where say void eruption makes shadow always have a second charge of blast and dark ascension gives always gave you a shorter cooldown of the spell . I think dark ascension will need more still, but would be a nice place to start play around with for iteration sake to see how it feels to play.

to be clear those alterations of mind blast always exist regardless if the cooldown is active or not, is what im proposing here.

Been running this build on DF Beta so far with PvP in mind and it’s ooooh so bursty:

I’m also suprised at how much I can move around with all the procs too.

One piece of feedback that I would like to see for Shadow is Void Origins making Dark Ascension instant as well since they’re both under the same talent choice, or atleast a Dark Ascension PvP talent counterpart to make it instant.

This as well, if Shadow Crash HAS to trigger Unfurling Darkness then if it could reapply to an enemy that doesn’t have either instead of applying duplicates to strictly 4 that would help. I personally would have liked to be able to manually apply the Unfurling Proc instead of having Shadow Crash use it, but I’d settle for either.

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That’s great then. It’s been a downward spiral feeling when I login, so I’m glad it’s not actually meant to be that way.

I’m still not entirely certain what we’re meant to do where soloing content and pulling multiple mobs should be? I’m spam pulling elite mobs in Shadowlands zones to give it another go and I have shadow crash and can only mind sear for a second or two, then I just sort of do my single target rotation?

This will be awkward for farming old content, and you’ll just have to dot everything and just tick it down where you can’t hit your crappy aoe sear?

I don’t miss being a turret caster, but the way this is doesn’t feel quite right if you need to roll solo.

Please dont remove shadowmend. Let us stay as the healer with least mobility but two spell schools in pvp.

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I hear this new class called evokers exist if you want multi school magic and movement, priest cant have that cause other classes have that. :frowning:

Sorry was a little snarky, but seriously though shadowmend having a chunky cd on it, isnt often going to be kicked.

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Shadow Orbs should buff our Finishers, increasing the damage of our next Devouring Plague or Mind Sear, rather than buffing our Mind Blast / Mind Spikes. Also Mind Spike should be deleted, but that’s a different issue that’s already been covered everywhere else.

Monomania should work with Mind Flay, Mind Sear, and Void Torrent (currently only works with Flay). Also if we’re keeping Mind Spike, Monomania should probably be a Choice node with Mind Spike, with Mind Flay buffing choices to mirror the like 10 talents that all buff Mind Spike.

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Monomania does work with Mind Sear, albeit only on the primary target.

I’m going to try and post some ideas that I have thought about for the priest class for some time and given the talent trees believe they have a decent opportunity to be added to the game. I am by no means trying to suggest anyone actually use any of these but they are some thoughts I wanted to write down and in hope I try to inspire some creativity without going against the original design limits that were presented last week.

Class Tree

Phantasm - Now prevents all knockbacks and movement speed from being reduced below 100% during its duration. “small QOL update since if the class is slower by design we would at least want to be hard to remove from well thought out positioning similiar to DKs”

Archbishop’s Plea (Mass Leap of Faith)- A conditional or separate ability that allows the priest to pull all valid targets to them. Some interesting combinations can be done using this ability plus the previously mentioned change could allow for some priest specific utility in a similar vein to Death Grip and Gorefiends without being necessary

Lights Inspiration - Instead of the healing component it increases the max HP that Desperate prayer provides by 5% each rank. Further modified by Angelic Bulwark. The healing component of this ability is largely unnoticeable throughout most of shadowlands as its life as a conduit.

Angelic Bulwark - Now instead provides a DR component to Desperate Prayer equal to the amount of maximum health provided. This both gives a strong defensive to healing priest without being too powerful for Shadow in my opinion. This also incentivizes grabbing lights inspiration and adds value to an otherwise low impact talent.

Angel’s Mercy - Choice node with Lights inspiration. With Angelic bulwark providing a DR component making this choice node would allow for either bigger defensives or more frequent defensives something quite a few classes are implementing but also more specific to the encounter as the CDR is dependent on damage taken. More frequent would be useful on constant period damage types while inspiration would be for large spikes.

Vampiric Embrace - 3 minute cooldown, Provide a raid wide leech buff for 20 seconds. Any overhealing performed during this period is smart healed to another target at 30% effectiveness. This is coming from someone who has been the 5th healer in fights where the only reason im really there is because of cooldowns and not actual active healing. With increased cooldown it lets more power be added to the ability and as a leech buff it does not become a direct throughput increase for the healing specs. It becomes a save yourself ability and the leech and duration should be moved around not being a good standalone cooldown but one that when synched with DPS cooldowns provides the effect of a tranquility or divine hymn. Could be made a 5 min CD or higher to prevent removing a healer all together.

San’layn - Removed or not sure. I want vampiric embrace to be strong enough to replace a single healer CD during dps cooldowns but I don’t want it often enough to invalidate a healer. I was thinking making this talent making a healing shell for a % of damage taken during vampiric embrace but honestly that might be too powerful in a raid enviornment

Mindgames - Every Xth mindblast (X = 10?) is replaced with mind games. PVP players like this ability, PVE players dont like that its a short CD set and forget spell that is just a super mindblast. Compromise as it can be planned around without being a consistent threat and PVE can bring some flavor of the venthyr with them. This is just a compromise to it being outright removed which im also ok with personally.

Divine Star / Cascade - If not outright removed Cascade makes more sense in the modern game for all specilizations than Halo does. Personally I would really like cascade to replace shadow crash for shadow in its specilization tree as I think its easier to manage and easier to balance to prevent it from being a single target and AOE talent but with the new Vampiric touch applying shadowcrash I dont know from a balance point of view. For the class tree I feel like cascade fits the same role as halo and has much more use cases assuming halo can still pull out of combat enemies.

Mind control / Dominate mind - I would like to see dominate mind be more like control undead for Deathknights where it is possible to chain control a NPC target for the entire duration of the dungeon. Ive seen control undead used to unique and neat effects from death knights this past expansion and would add some niche utility for mostly dungeons

Sheer Terror / Void Tendrils - Void tendrils is now a ground targeted ability that has a tendril grab targets within a 10 or 15 yd radius and pulls them towards the center. Targets grabbed are pulled until the tendril is destroyed or reach 10 yds past its original radius. This is the infamous black hole ability a lot of Shadow priests have requested but with some catches. For mechanical similarity see how the Meangerie 3rd boss works in pulling targets towards the boss where it is walkable to escape slowly or the ability to displace can remove it almost instantly. More of a dungeon raid utility ability with similiar effectiveness as Ursols vortex in keeping CCable mobs grouped but different enough from vortex to not be distinct. Similiar to how Stampedeing roar and windrush totem accomplish similiar goals but have different use cases.

Twins of the Sun Priestess / Sun Priestess covenant - Choice node. First twins would now provide 50% benefit to the target and 100% benefit to the priest. This ensures Shadow will always want to PI another target but also ensures that the shadow player is forefront in timing of the cast. Second the covenant. This would make it so that passively the priest provides its party % haste and only 1 power infusion. This choice makes it a tuning / sim check for shadow on which to pick and for healing priests provides them more personal benefit as healing priests mostly do not use the infusion on themselves when they would like it.

Improved Mass Dispell - Not sure how others feel about this but the mana reduction from the conduit is more preferred by myself than the cast time reduction in the talent tree.

Calm Emotions - Dispel Magic now can remove enrage effects as well as charms from a single target

Fear Ward - a reimagined classic spell that places a ground targeted zone that prevents fear effects.

Zone of Truth - Ground targeted zone that prevent charm effects on friendly targets within. Not to exist at the same time as fear ward or to be a choice node, mostly an option instead of fear ward if its seen as stepping on shamans toes too much as charm is less frequent and Priest is the mind control class

Strength of the many - A talent that enhances the personal effects of Power Word: Fortitude. Power Word Fortitude still provides its normal effects to all other parties however for each friendly party or raid member with the buff the priest instead gains X% increased stamina (X = 1 or 0.5). Intended to add to the priests defensiveness in larger group content while being a largely skipable talent in 5 man or less group content. The intention is to increase priest defensivley as many other classes are seeing stamina increase nodes and the class that is providing the stamina buff is one of the lowest HP classes in the game.

Geas - Talent that modifies mind control that when it is broken by an enemy it deals damage to the previously mind controlled target. MC protection, if you know where im drawing inspiration you know what I’m doing today.

Planar Binding - Tranforms shackle undead into Plana Binding. Now affects elementals, aberation and demons. Its a long time coming and going through the Death expansion with very limited death you can CC I believe its deserved.

Divine Word - Command a Humanoid creature causing them to be disoriented for 30 seconds

Sanctuary - Creates a veil of protection around the priest reducing enemy threat rage on all friendly targets within similiar to Fade for the priest but also prevents stealth detection on targets within. Rogue / Priest combo skip

Shadow Word Rebuke - Interupt in class tree. 45 second cooldown. Strickly an interupt thats it.

Sheer Terror - Now instead horrifies targets instead of fears. The increased fear break can do more harm than good. Keeping targets feared in place if mind bomb is off the table is probably a much better competition for current and my proposed void tendrils

Im only going to talk about shadow specifically because although I play holy and discipline I don’t think I play it enough to give feedback without detracting from the people who are more qualified.

Shadow

Mind Spike - Removed or it replaces mind flay

Surge of Darkness - No affects void bolt and allows void bolt to be castable outside of voidform on proc

Mind Melt - Replaced with voidbolt reducing mindblast cast time and increasing mindblast critical strike

Whispers of the damned - Mind blast and Void Bolt critical strikes generate additional insanity

Psychic Link - Mind blast and Void Bolt deal % per rank of its damage to all other targets afflicted with vampiric touch

Ancient Madness - Make a direct connection between this talent and Dark Evangelism as there are situations you want dark evangelism but do not want psychic link or unfurling darkness

Coalescing Shadows - consumed by mind blast and void bolt or mindblast alone

Dark Void - No target cap

Silence / Admonish - Choice node providing shadow with the silence component of live or reducing the cooldown of interupt to 24 seconds. Something akin to what evokers currently have where all specs get an interupt but the Devestation gets an empowered one to be more in line with a standard ranged interupt

Dark Ascension - Removed and turned into a glyph. At this time it is a cool idea but doesn’t seem like there is time to flesh it out. Right now its just a sim for the best ability and go. Also I truly believe making void bolt more relevant by changing the mind spike talents to utilize void bolt is more fluid with the class but also makes ascension less valuable

San’layn - If Vampiric Embrace talented it provides a % conversion of damage into a healing shell. If Vampiric Embrace not talented it provides vampiric embrace from the class tree. Highly subject to tuning but I very much believe this is the shadow specific raid utility that is desired. Everyone gets it but shadow gets a more potent one that can be used also as a DR. Again like I said for embrace I think 3 min cooldown minimum to allow it to feel powerful number wise but it may need to be increased to something akin to 5 minutes so that it doesnt become stack shadow priests to sack a healer. Something I intend only to be useful during combined DPS cooldowns to limit its use cases but not its power to keep it desirable but not composition defining. Something that isnt a 4 stack of unholy DK stacking for denathrius strong.

Anyways I’m throwing a bunch of ideas on paper. Again I by no means am asking for all or specific direction from anyone I’m just spit balling here because I have ideas on directions that could be taken for priests without completely going against last weeks post and hoping to maybe get a dialogue or inspire something.

I do appreciate what you guys do and hope to see more dialogue about the future of my favorite class flavor.

Edit: That patch note timing eh?

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I love that! Never even thought about that. We already have a traditional Mass Grip from DK, so one for allies sounds really intriguing and like a powerful spell that could really fit the theme.

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Well, there went Shadow Mend…Disappointing.
Shadow Covenant lost its interaction with Shadow Mend of course.

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