Feedback: Priests

Priest Feedback: Missing things

Three more spells / interactions have come to my attention as missing in dragonflight.

  • Mass Dispel Rank 2: Mass Dispel no longer removes bubble, block, or cyclone.

  • Shining force: Missing from the holy and disc trees.

  • Greater Fade: Missing entirely from PvP talents, even for shadow.

19 Likes

Can we just make contrition baseline or get rid of it?

If it’s baseline it’s a nice bonus when we defensive penance. If it’s in the tree then we have this random node we aren’t going to take and haven’t taken since it was introduced to the spec.

It makes the rotation confusing even though if we want a group heal with penance the answer is always offensive penance.

What exactly is the intent of this talent?

2 Likes

Holy priest needs buffs

that is all

3 Likes

Some feedback on the Holy Priest talents:

Holy Tree:

The Prayer of Healing vs Lightweaver path feels a bit inconsistent

The majority of talents that directly buff Prayer of Healing are available early in the tree whereas most of the talents that impact Heal / Flash Heal are available later in the tree.

With 10 points you can get all 3 of the major Prayer of Healing talents whereas it requires a minimum of 25 points to fully invest into Lightweaver.

This makes the Prayer of Healing build more flexible in regards to what kind of approach you can take. You can pick up Lightweaver if you wanted or you can go Divine Word + Holy Word Salvation. On the flip side there’s no talents on the bottom of the tree that offer any bonus to Prayer of Healing.

With Lightweaver (especially if you’re raid healing) you have to go Lightweaver and Holy Word Salvation: thus you can’t use Divine Word which gives you a powerful buff to your single target healing.

Too many talents to buff smart AI abilities

  • Orison seems a tad bit too powerful for raid healing. It reduces your CoH cd by 3s and lets you heal 6 targets instead of 5. It also scales off of Harmonious.

  • Prayer of Mending has 5 talents buffing it (technically 6, but I don’t consider Spirited Litany to be a PoM buff) → Not good or bad, but PoM is going to be a major part of your healing now. 7 charges w/ increased healing per target and a 15% chance to leave a Renew and not to consume a charge adds up pretty fast.

Main Talent Feedback

  • Cosmic Ripple is an underwhelming talent. It only provides 2-3%~ of your overall healing. I think bringing back Piety of Mana would be nice, but nerf it a bit.

  • I don’t understand the point of the Enlightment talent and why it is in the tree to begin with. It provides a negligible amount of mana return and is the spec going to be balanced around having to take this talent?

  • Gale of Song doesn’t seem that useful on paper. Divine Hymn usually massively overheals in a raid environment (can be 50% or more overhealing) and an additional +2% healing per stack seems a tad bit overkill. I would much rather see this talent allow the option to channel Divine Hymn while moving because one of the issues in the raids is simply finding a spot where you can safely hymn. It’s especially bad on fights like crab boss or pain smith. An alternative idea is to make Gale Songs reduce the CDR of Divine Hymn.

  • Lightweaver should generate 2 charges per Flash Heal instead of 1. It feels a big janky going Flash Heal → Heal → repeat and it also means you’re spending more flash heals per minute than you would have with Flash Concentration.

  • Empyreal Blaze should branch off of Burning Vehemence instead of Prayers of the Virtuous. It can go Burning Vehemence → Searing Light → Empyreal Blaze along the right side. This makes it more flexible to budget into a dps build.

  • Rapid Recovery should be changed: it just makes your Renew do the same healing over 12s instead of 15s. It’s neither interesting nor really impactful.

  • Holy Word Salvation is a raid mandatory talent thus limiting your bottom tree choices if you’re doing PvE raid content. (Already pointed this out earlier: but just wanted to rehash it.)

  • Apotheosis is hard to budget into any kind of M+ build. You want Lightweaver, but you also want damage so you’re stuck between Divine Word + Lightweaver.

The bottom of the tree is overbloated with 2 point sinks and a lot of those 2 point sinks aren’t even that powerful

Resonant Words → 2 points for only a +30% bonus (we get double that on live) on your next Holy word is underwhelming. This talent needs to be buffed or reduced to 1 point. Pontifex is 1 point and more powerful than Resonant Words. Crisis Management is actually worth 2 points because you get a whopping +15% additional crit chance to your single target heraling.

Light of the Naaru → Should be reduced to 1 point instead of 2.

Desperate Times → Probably should be higher in the tree.

Harmonious → This talent is actually worth 2 points, but only because it provides a large CDR reduction on Holy Word Salvation.

Spirited Litany → Should be 1 point.

Searing Light → Should be 1 point.

Additional Input

  • Where’s the interrupt? Every healer ingame has an interrupt now except for Disc & Holy Priests. There needs a justifiable reason not to give these specs an interrupt.
  • The Holy Priest nerfs that aren’t replaced: The loss of Fae Guardians → no more 2 minute Divine Hymns, the lack of passive mana return, and a -20% DR you could drop on the tank during fights.
6 Likes

Buffing Aegis of Wrath wasn’t what we meant when we said “PW:S Is really weak so we don’t want to take this talent”

1 Like

with shadow priest update you can get dark ascension without getting dark evangelism. and is either 6 points to get 2/2 or 5 points to get 2/2 of dark evangelism from dark ascension this seems like a really bad change

Shadow Priest Thoughts - 9/13 Update

Here are my preliminary thoughts on the Priest and Shadow talent tree changes for this week’s build.

Priest Tree

Class tree is basically perfect at this point. The only thing I think is missing is a Silence for Priest and Vampiric Embrace being iterated on.

Vampiric Embrace as it stands doesn’t seem to fit either Priest role. Discipline and Holy don’t have enough Shadow spells to benefit from it, and it is often the case that the periods where Shadow is doing the most damage is not when healing is required.

I know this has been said already, but Vampiric Embrace really feels like it should go back to being a leech buff, the current version of it doesn’t seem useful in any meaningful capacity.

Shadow Tree

With the changes I think the first two tiers of the spec tree are really solid, barring a few exceptions. I really like how there is a clear path identity of left side being periodic effects with Coalescing Shadows and right side being direct damage with Mind Spike and Surge of Darkness.

Shadowy Insight
I think this talent is a lot better than Vampiric Insight with Vampiric Touch being such an overbudgeted spell and Shadow Word: Pain having little identity. I really hope that these procs occur more frequently on AoE otherwise it being tied to a dot is a waste imo.

Mind Melt
I really am not a fan of the cast time reduction aspect of this talent, especially at one stack. I would much prefer hard-casting my Mind Blasts except for Shadowy Insight procs, and opt into instant cast capability like the previous talent option. I am also really concerned with Mind Blast having permanent 100% crit rate now that Mind Spike no longer removes our DoTs. I think this should be a part of Surge of Darkness so we aren’t encouraged to hard cast Mind Spike to gain crits, except for maybe inside Dark Ascension.

Voidform/Dark Ascension
Now that Voidform and Dark Ascension are choice talents with one another, it’s pretty clear what the playstyle differences should be with Voidform focusing more on periodic damage, and Dark Ascension focusing on direct damage. At the moment I don’t think these talents have clear enough identities in this regard, especially with Ancient Madness now affecting them equally.

Dark Evangelism
Aside from being another maintenance buff to periodic effects by 10%, identical to Coalescing Shadows, what perplexes me is the location of Dark Evangelism and its surrounding talents. I think pathing from Psychic Link to it makes sense as a cleave option, but if I am taking a cleave build then I have to take Unfurling Darkness, which I really don’t want to do. I think this pathing specifically should be revisited.

Final Tier

Besides removing a lot of talents and a bit of reshuffling, the bottom tier of the Shadow tree remains unchanged. I think this is in an unfinished state since it lacks direction and more iteration will come, but I would like to provide feedback on its current state all the same.

Void Torrent/Damnation
I really like having Torrent and Damnation as choice nodes since they are used similarly, but it doesn’t feel good having to talent back into their cooldown reduction. I also feel like if they are going to be this far down into the tree they should have more interaction.

Idols
These really don’t feel that good to me. They’re all passive and don’t serve gameplay at all. I think their naming and icons, giving them an Old-God theme, carry these talents way too hard and don’t really justify being capstones on their own.

Mind Devourer
Speaking of weak capstones, Mind Devourer was moved to be one. I can only hope this is a temporary shift because a talent that is a conduit in Shadowlands does not deserve to be a capstone talent.

The Wall
It’s been memed on already, but every talent in the penultimate row being a 2 point doesn’t feel good at all. They’re just locking away the cool talents, but as I’ve already stated, they aren’t all that cool.

Surrender to Madness
While I am happy that Surrender to Madness was removed in the version that it was, I cannot help to feel sad that something iconic to Shadow has been lost. I was really hoping for it to receive the proper iteration its namesake deserved, instead of remaining untouched for three expansions.

What’s Missing
With so many talents being removed and no new talents being added, it is pretty clear to me that the final tier is still under iteration. I think there are two aspects of current Shadow missing in the final tier that could be build defining, worthy of capstones.

The tier set bonus Living Shadow in Shadowlands saw a brief appearance before the rework of the tree, which I think could be brought back as a talent. The animation for the Living Shadow on the back of the Priest is awesome, along with its constant searing animation, and it would be a shame to lose such a cool aesthetic.

For years Shadow has been considered a core execute spec in a group composition, but there is only one indirect execute talent in the spec tree with Pain of Death increasing the damage of Shadow Word: Death. While we also have Twist of Fate in the class tree, I do not think a 10% damage bonus will let us compete with Fire Mages, Unholy DKs, or Warriors. I would really like to see a capstone talent leaning into our execute niche, should the need arise.

8 Likes

Ok I think I am in love with the new Mind Spike for Shadow! I don’t know (or care) how it sims out but I can ditch Mind Flay to spam Mind Spike instead and get lots of instant procs of Mind Blast and Mind Spike which is wicked fun! And best of all, it doesn’t eat your dots!

6 Likes

I am so happy to see so many changes for S-priest. New Mind spike is pretty cool. And I think the sigle target is perfect at this point.
However, for aoe, it is still not as we aspect. Removing the Surrender to Madnes will make S-priest have no enough insanity in aoe(It is the only way we can get enough insanity in last patch although it is annoyed ). I think if we can get some new way to get insanity, it will be very helpful to save the S-priest in M+
And another annoyed thing is Mind Sear. We couldn’t move when we are channeling Mind sear and Mind Flay. Maybe we can have some talent to get some skills to make us channel during moving just like envoker.

2 Likes

Loving the direction of the changes we’ve seen so far. However I have some concerns / questions regarding them.

Shadow Feedback: Competing spells

Mind spike now has clear rotational function both with SoD and in the fact it doesn’t remove dots, but it’s basically a filler spell in the same way mind flay is. Is spike supposed to replace flay in the rotation when it’s taken? Having both is good for flexibility and the option to slow on demand, but how are the two spells meant to fit alongside eachother?

Voidform Vs dark ascension: Now that these spells share a choice node it’s obvious they’re supposed to offer separate gameplay, but I’m struggling to see the specific use case for each. The dots Vs direct damage angle seems the best choice, but the two spells don’t lean into their respective gameplay enough to have that distinction be anything more than tuning right now. I guess with mastery still working as is that makes voidform the aoe cd? I’m not sure that’s a particularly compelling design.

7 Likes

First impressions of the updated tree.

—CLASS TREE—

Very happy to see tithe evasion in here, the changes to fade and phantasm are also really good.

Overall I think the class tree is good, my main concerns are the lack of interrupt, and Death and madness.

Are priest just supposed to be the only healer without an interrupt? I find that kind of ridiculous but at the very least some communication on this would be appreciated.

Death and madness not resetting on kill is pretty disappointing and makes this talent a lot less interesting to use. Would really like to see it returned to a reset within the 7 seconds.

Still no cascade or spectral guise :frowning:

Also vampiric embrace is still weird, pretty medium for shadow and bad for the other 2 specs.

—SHADOW TREE—

Good changes but again, a few things that really stick out to me.

Our top third is still so crammed with points I don’t see a way to ever take all or even most of the utility here. It doesn’t really feel good having to give up the limited amount of utility we were able to have previously to take throughput.

The middle section pathing feels…off to me. Unfurling darkness and psychic link being the only ways to get to dark evang?

I don’t like mind melt. I want mind blast to just hit hard, this feels like it’ll pull some of the power out of mind blast just to do some gymnastics to get it back to where it should be. Maybe I’m wrong here.

The last third of the tree feels very disjointed to me. I like a lot of the stuff here, but it just feels like an amalgamation of things rather than a way to really focus a build. Some of that could just be that I don’t think our capstones are particularly interesting still.

The Great Wall of 2 pointers still stands, echoing the previous statements…it’s a little silly.

Gut responses, will have to play with it when I get home today.

6 Likes

That’s what I did on the PTR and it felt sooooo good! I have no idea if it’s good dps wise, but gameplay wise I love it!

I just wish Dark Ascension was instant cast like typical dps cooldowns are.

2 Likes

I think just like what we did in 6.0. We only need to use quicken mind spike to enhance our mind blast. And the other time we can use new talent Mind Flay:insanity as a filling skill. But this is only for single target…For aoe, there is a lot problem can’t be solved, especially lack of insanity…

And you are right, voidform is aoe cd now if they donot tune it again and dark ascension will be a better choice in single target.

1 Like

Mind Spike

This morning I wanted to take some time to talk about Mind Spike returning as a spell and where it fits into our rotation and kit. Specifically lets go over the recent changes and how that plays into this spell:

Mind Spike – No longer removes damage over time effects. Critical Strike chance bonus to Mind Blast moved to Mind Melt.

In a previous post I made a note asking what the purpose of Mind Spike was clearing DoTs, if we only ever end up using it with Surge of Darkness procs. This change certainly solves part of that problem since now you can freely cast Mind Spike without any downsides. The main question now comes in with how should this spell be used versus Mind Flay?

Making it no longer remove DoTs as a baseline puts it in a tricky situation where the player now has to know when to cast Mind Spike over Mind Flay, which will be dependent on talent choices and tuning. Tuning aside, it seems realistic to assume if you are talenting into the Mind Flay buffing talents like Mind Flay: Insanity, Monomania, or Mental Decay that Mind Flay will continue to be your filler spell. On the other side if you talent into Mind Melt, Whispers of the Damned, Mastermind, etc. these buffs could bring Mind Spike over edge of Mind Flay. The core issue I have with this is this is 100% a sim problem. Where after a certain amount of talents buffing them you will change which one becomes your filler depending on the situation. Having this be purely a math/sims question as opposed to a rotational one does not seem interesting to me. I would prefer a talent tree design or talent design in general that was clearer about when and where you want to use each filler.

Problems I’m concerned about:

  • It is not clear when to cast Mind Spike vs. Mind Flay now that Mind Spike has no downside to hard casting it and the tuning between the two likely leads to Mind Flay only being our filler when you take the talents that buff it. Assuming Mind Spike’s cast time will be affected by haste it generates the same amount of Insanity per second as Mind Flay and deals more damage. I’m not pointing this out because I want one or the other to be buffed/nerfed I’m just pointing out that if the answer to which one to cast comes down to numbers that design is not fun to me.
  • This might bring in “weaving” of Mind Spikes to game the 100% critical strike on Mind Blast if talenting into Mind Melt. While some people enjoyed this weaving I’m not sure the idea of wanting to always cast two Mind Spikes before every Mind Blast would be fun gameplay
  • Having Mind Spike pseudo-replace our filler by just being mathematically better is not fun. If Mind Spike stays better it will mean Mind Flay is only used to refresh DoTs or with other talents buffing its interactions like Mind Flay: Insanity. This also effectively nerfs those talents if we aren’t pressing Mind Flay as often.

Some options to consider:

  • Similar to Legion, have Mind Spike outright replace Mind Flay when talenting into it, and have all Mind Flay related talents transform to work with Mind Spike when talented into that.
  • Add the baseline DoT removal back to Mind Spike, but have Dark Ascension transform Mind Spike to no longer remove DoTs when active. This keeps the existing gameplay loop with Surge of Darkness procs but then clearly leans you to making Mind Spike your filler inside of Dark Ascension which makes that cooldown more interesting.
44 Likes

Greetings Priests,

Today, we’re shining some light on decisions we’ve made for Priests over the past few weeks for Dragonflight. First, we want to share thoughts on how things are shaping up overall and then go into some specific spells that we’re reading feedback about.

Number of Active Spells
We agree. Priests have too many active spells. While we think there will be more to assess as the expansion plays out, the first spell that comes to mind is Shadow Mend feeling unnecessary with Flash Heal being available to all Priests. Instead of Shadow Mend as a talent that overrides Flash Heal, we are working towards removing the spell. We realize that losing a secondary healing school lockout may not sit well with Discipline Priests in PvP, but we’re happy with this direction overall. While no plans are in place right now, we’re also discussing Mindgames and Power Word: Life as contributing to the number of active spells for Priests.

Class Tree
Overall, we feel the class tree is in a good spot. As mentioned above, there are too many active spells and we’re looking to pull back on that. For Shadow, the Class tree has shaped out well. We’re less happy about how many nodes can feel mandatory for Holy and Discipline and this is something we’ll be looking to improve over time.

Discipline
We will continue to monitor feedback surrounding the changes we’ve made to Renew and Power Word: Shield for Dragonflight. Currently, we do not have plans to change this and think it is playing well.

Historically Discipline has revolved heavily around Penance. We want to allow for builds that are centered around Penance, but also open opportunities for other spells in the Discipline toolkit to shine if invested into, such as Smite and Power Word: Shield. We look forward to your feedback on if this is felt with the tree, tuning aside.

For Shadow Covenant, we’re looking to take away the downsides so that it encourages Shadow spells but doesn’t discourage Holy spells. Shadow Covenant has gone through a lot of change, but we’re hoping this is a step in the right direction.

Holy
Lightweaver is our alternative design to Flash Concentration. Weaving between Flash Heal and Heal is fun, but wound up feeling like a maintenance buff. We believe having a back-and-forth between the spells with stacks to improve situational usability is a better direction for single-target focused builds.

When it comes to X’anshi (now known as Restitution), we are excited to keep the effect around for Holy Priests. We were uncertain of where this should belong in the tree, but after more deliberation decided it was best competing with the more powerful talents, so it has been moved to row 10 of the tree. We know adding this in was not desirable for PvP players. While we have no plans to disable the effect in PvP, we are discussing ways to tone down its effect in PvP so that the Priest is in more danger after resurrecting. This node also competes with two charges of Holy Word: Serenity, so they will be giving up valuable throughput for the effect.

Shadow
Now that the tree has been in front of players for a couple weeks, we are reasonably happy with what we have, with room to grow in the future. Our initial thoughts on Voidform being optional is something we stand by. How to accomplish this while continuing to support Voidform and improve its gameplay is a challenge we want to continue to discuss and work on. Currently, we’re happy with where we’ve landed with Void Eruption competing with Dark Ascension so there’s not too many cooldown spells. With that said, Dark Ascension is visually exciting, but we feel it is currently lacking in identity. We’re discussing changes like Dark Ascension being more rotationally transformative while active or having a different cooldown than Void Eruption, so that its use cases over Void Eruption are more clear. We don’t have plans to make major changes to either spell for Dragonflight launch, but they will be on our radar for the future.

Mind Spike and Mind Flay coexisting is something we’re going to try but are wary of. Shadow has many spells to press rotationally, and this isn’t helping that. At the same time, being able to build your own Shadow Priest was a goal with this iteration and we believe the tree allows for that.

Silence
We understand that Holy and Discipline are the two specs without access to an interrupt, either baseline or in a talent tree. We also realize Shadow has Silence in their tree which adds to the number of non-throughput nodes in their tree. With that said, we are not adding Silence to the Priest class tree. Having access to an interrupt is not something we view as necessary for all specializations. In PvP, Holy and Discipline already provide valuable control to their team and additionally having Silence would provide more control than we’re comfortable with. This is especially true with how much control is becoming available across all classes in Dragonflight.

Vault of Heavens
This was discussed early on with this iteration with the intent to add it as a choice against Leap of Faith. Upon further consideration, Vault of Heavens is almost always more useful than Leap of Faith. But Leap of Faith is one of the more fun interactions in WoW. It changes your perspective on the battlefield. You’re always ready to react to save someone. And of course, it has some clever uses to get your friends killed. If we allow for the choice, the choice is clear, or we’d have to nerf Vault of Heavens down to something that won’t feel very powerful. The fantasy of the Priest leaping to their target doesn’t match our expectations for a Priest either, so we instead separated Body and Soul from Angelic Feather for a little extra movement support and kept Leap of Faith as a standalone.

Shining Force
This spell was deliberately removed in Dragonflight. Powerful spells being removed can cause frustration; however, the amount of control available across all classes in Dragonflight is causing concern. On top of this, the prevalence of knockbacks is already increasing in Dragonflight PvP and knockbacks can be the most influential control effect on arena or battleground maps with verticality.

Spectral Guise
We’ve read feedback about a desire for the return of Spectral Guise. We discussed the ability early on and decided against it, and our stance has not changed. We do not want Priests entering stealth especially in PvP, as it removes the Priest from the target and focus frame and occurs frequently. Hunters, Rogues, and Mages already do this often enough.

Mind Bomb
In its current form as a disorient we don’t think it is very compelling as a replacement to Psychic Scream besides preventing movement during the effect. What we anticipate is desired is the AoE stun version of the spell, but we are not planning to bring that forward. We pulled back on AoE stun duration and availability some time ago and decided against adding this one back so that we wouldn’t find ourselves in the same situation we were in the past. If everyone has an AoE stun, then it’s not going to feel special to have one in the first place.

Personal Defenses
For similar reasons as Silence, we will not be adding Dispersion to the Priest class tree. Healing Priests are understandably on the weaker side of the defensive spectrum, but our answer to that isn’t to bring Dispersion to the class tree. Between Desperate Prayer, Power Word: Shield, Angelic Bulwark, Translucent Image, and Spell Warding, we feel Priests are in an okay spot. We’ve also increased the damage reduction effect from Translucent Image to 10% and separated Phantasm from it.

Looking forward to your feedback!

17 Likes

Seems to me like you’ve designed Priest utility with only PvP in mind with zero regard for PvE desirability.

Sure our kit may be overloaded for PvP, but is it healthy that we offer basically no value in group-based PvE content?

128 Likes

Holy Priest Feedback on the 9/13/2022 update:

(The beta isn’t updated with the new build, but I had the PTR client installed anyway)

Holy Priest Tree:

Damage Feedback

Thank you for moving Empyreal Blaze up higher in the tree and buffing Burning Vehemence to actually be impactful because it was kind of pointless to have cast time reductions when you could fire off instant casts all the time. It is much easier to budget in these abilities into an M+ focused DPS build. You can also take it in a raid build without much consequence.

The only suggestion I have is also moving up Searing Light higher in the tree branching off of Empyreal Blaze. It is an awkward position to take as you have to take either a renew talent or PoM related ones to take.

It also makes little sense why I have to take a dps talent if I want to branch down a healing path so I can get Miracle Worker or Restitution.

Healing Feedback

Thank you for moving Apotheosis/Holy Word Salvation higher up in the tree. That was my #1 issue with the previous iteration with the tree. Either way: here’s my feedback.

  • Archbishop (now called Resitution) is now a bottom tree ability → I honestly don’t like this change at all. I would like this to be higher up in the tree like it was before. Priest self-revive was a nice utility thing.
  • Divine Hymn is now tied to taking Afterlife or Renewed Faith. I do NOT like this change. Divine Hymn is a class critical ability and needs more access points. Afterlife is a mediocre talent and Renewed Faith only works if you’re taking Benediction or hard casting Renews.
  • Desperate Times is a tad TOO powerful. +10/20% increased healing on targets below 50% health on-top of being able to get a +10% bonus from Twists of Faith healing targets below 35% hp is giga hp padding. It’s borderline a mandatory pick for raid healing.
  • Resonant Words was buffed → Thank you… +30% healing before was a joke. +50% is more impactful.
  • Lightwell is still really bad: it does half the healing of a Renew tick over 6s, has 15 charges, and can only be used once every 3 minutes. It’s neither impactful nor useful.
  • Divine Image was really bad when it was a legendary. It had a ridiculously low proc rate to the point I could not even proc it for minutes in a row. Divine Word literally blows it miles out of the water. Divine Image needs to be massively buffed.
  • Answered Prayers should branch off of Apotheosis/Salvation branch. I do think it’s a nice change because having it proc Power Infusion before was too powerful and would result in sitting on the cooldown until you wanted to pop Divine Hymn or Salvation.
  • Empowered Renew/Rapid Recovery should be moved up higher in the tree branching off of Renewed Faith & Benediction imho. It’s in an awkward, random location.
  • Miracle Worker buff is pretty nice, but my main issue with it is that it’ll lead to much faster Holy Word Salvation reset times. You can immediately knock off a minute on the cd as long as you have two charges built up of each ability. The second issue is that you only really get to use the extra holy word once in “most” situations as you’re chaining the holy words on cd.

Either way: I will say this update was a nice change. Moving up Holy Word Salvation/Apotheosis actually makes it so you can make meaningful choices on the bottom of the tree instead of having to pigeon hole yourself into one bottom tree.

I do need to point out a major issue though regarding Holy Word Salvation:

  • There’s too many talents that focus around resetting Holy Words and that leads towards faster Holy Word Salvation resets. These talents will get prioritized over others on fights where you can get 2-3 Salv casts off.

General Priest Tree (Holy Priest Feedback):

  • Holy Nova & Rhapsody is still underwhelming despite the +50% damage buff to Holy Nova. Rhapsody takes 100 seconds to make Holy Nova do half the damage Divine Star does.
  • Still no branch to Shackle Undead unless you take Body & Soul.
  • Phantasm is a nice talent in its position.
  • Dominant Mind and Mind Control are now two different abilities? Tad bit confused.
  • Improved Mass Dispel should reduce the mana cost as well imho.
  • Translucent Image is back to 10%… one step back, one step forward. A 20% reduction is all we’re asking for.
  • Angelic Bulwark is still underwhelming. It should work just like the ability did from Dreamweaver. Drop below 80% hp and get a shield.
  • Power Word Life is still underwhelming. Its one of the weakest heals in our inventory and requires targets to be below 35% health to use properly.

Not really much to add here.

8 Likes

Any word on greater fade? You mention you’re pulling back on control and defensives but we’re seeing an explosion of gap closers across all melee specs. Outlaw rogue currently has access to grapple and shadowstep as a quick example.

Keeping with PvP talents for the moment, the number of talents that explicitly reference or impact voidform is concerning, given it is no longer the focal point of the spec. Some retooling needs to happen there to make sure shadow still has compelling options for PvP when not playing voidform.

The silence and dispersion comments make sense, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with leaving both things in the spec tree as long as pathing into them essentially ‘free’. The problem is that’s not the case, and shadow will with the current design always be left in a position where it’s choosing between damage buffs and it’s most powerful personal utility.

29 Likes

This comment might feel a little premature but it’s beginning to feel like your solution to ‘Classes have too much access to XYZ’ is to take XYZ away from priest.

122 Likes

I would still like to see a very basic interrupt in the Class tree (not Silence) purely for the benefit of M+ utility. As someone who does not engage with PVP, this just comes across as superficial inequality and a huge oversight for M+ compositional diversity, especially for the more casual players and groups that would benefit from the additional interrupt most.

83 Likes