FEEDBACK: Priest Class Changes

Just a reminder before changes go out tomorrow/Wednesday that:

Light’s Caress is still bugged.

Contrition is still bad => dead talent

The Disc level 50 talent row is an absolutely tragic trainwreck.

Thanks
:slight_smile:

12 Likes

Suggestion for Night fae ability:
After Guardian Faerie and Benevolent Faerie moving, the effect will still last on the target for X sec. It will improve the experience for holy/discipline priest.

1 Like

First I’d just like to state that I’m so glad the devs are working so hard on my favorite spec in the game (shadow).

A few small quality of life suggestions/feedback from my testing.

Mind Sear/Searing Nightmare and the GCD.

Searing nightmare is a SUPER fun ability, but it feels not great with how it interacts Mind Sear. Is there a way we could get a 0.5GCD placed on Mind Sear (and potentially Mind Flay) as well so that using abilities during the cast doesn’t feel so awkward?

The Dark Thoughts passive proc during Mind Sear feels bad because I am having to stop searing to cast Mind Blast. I think a 1 second GCD or 0.5 second GCD could make a big difference in terms of fluidity here.

Fae Guardians Feedback

I absolutely LOVE this ability. Microing the little faeries to buff the tank is wonderful, but in the dungeon environment I’m almost never manually casting Shadow Word: Pain because usually I’m running Misery or Searing Nightmare and having to recast it on my primary target during Fae Guardians feels really awkward to me. Could it at least start active on the target I’m targeting when I cast the ability?

Void Form Mind Blast Charges.

Specifically the end of Void Form. Since the cooldown allows for two charges of Mind Blast, sometimes I run into this problem when my void form ends while I’m casting a spell other than Mind Blast and my 2nd charge is used but I’ve still got one in the bank, the end of Void Form takes away my remaining charge of Mind Blast and I feel like I got cheated since the base UI doesn’t really communicate well to the player the time left on Void Form. Sometimes I’ll even be casting my last charge of Mind Blast while VF ends and the spell will just fail to fire. Not sure if this is a bug or intended but I don’t love it.

8 Likes

So after doing my own pleb testing for both Holy and Disc, I have some thoughts on how they might both do this expansion from an average player’s perspective.

Holy has always been seemingly under-powered for M+ considering their direct healing is cut in half to a HoT per their mastery. This can be utilized very well with fast Heal --> Damage --> Heal --> Damage rotation, but struggles when tank damage is high as the HoT is fairly weak and can’t be exponentially improved like a Druid can do. Sure, Druids lack quick group burst for when crap hits the fan (from a pure burst perspective), but A). Most Druids can easily set up for this damage flux B). Prayer of Healing is still not as strong as Trail weaving imo. However, HPriest coming into Shadowlands has received many small changes that make playing it significantly better than in BFA; you have many Damage/Heal spells that can be cast on the move (SW: Death, PoM, Divine Star, Circle, SW: Pain). Their DPS rotation is also incredibly consistent and nothing to scoff at. Holy Fire hits like a truck, SW: Pain is always amazing, Chastise is a great stun and heavy hitter, Mind Sear (hoping its removal is a bug) is great for HoT weaving with huge pulls, and not to mention a coordinated Power Infusion on a DPS will be amazingly stupid to burn mobs down. These spells allow more efficiency from the HPriest and really make it enjoyable to play. Is it going to be meta? I don’t think so. BFA HPriests struggle when the keys get to ~+20, however I am certain we can bump that number a bit higher with these new changes.

Discipline has always been more of a hobby for M+ personally, as I find Holy easier to get my weekly +15 and up done. Disc is AMAZING for raids, as a full Atonement blanket on the raid for burst healing provides fantastic numbers. When you have 12+ people with Atonement, you really start to climb the meters. However for M+, Atonement’s biggest issue is you don’t HAVE ~12 people; you have 5. Unfortunately the less people you have Atonement on, the less efficient it becomes as Atonement healing doesn’t scale inversely for number of people affected. It’s a flat transfer. I think most Discipline Priests reading this can agree Atonement would be much more effective if it healed for more the less targets you have Atonement aplied on and vice versa, much like how Sins works (and no, I don’t think Sins is marginally impactful enough to compensate for this). This would be a great way to solve this issue, and would add more decision making for both M+ and raids without being overpowered in my opinion. I should also mention making Mind Sear scale to transfer Atonement to at LEAST 3 targets (ideally more like 5-6) would be a great alternative to this, as Mind Sear ATM is only really cast for damage and feels so weak and useless on big pulls. Speaking of talents, Shadow Covenant is quite nice once you get used to it. There are a lot of weighty decisions for using it, i.e. Do I try to pump damage? One person dropped, should I use this and buff my Shadowmend? Is Schism ready? Can I get Radiance out before I can cast it? It’s only problem is its CD; I feel its slightly too long, as ideally it would be best to have it ready from pack-to-pack but I find myself not having it when I need it. 4 seconds off feels like it would smooth this up. However if used properly, Shadow Cov. greatly improves on both the single target and burst AoE that Disc has been missing, and I LOVE the skill cap that’s required to actually use it to your advantage. Is this going to be meta? Again, I don’t think so. Is it going to be as efficient and reliable as Holy? If played right, I believe Disc will very well be able to do as good if not better than Holy when you push those +20s. While I don’t believe the healing consistency will be as great, the weaknesses Shadow Cov. allows you to cover will make Disc Priest competitive against Holy marginally when you account for the DPS it also brings.

All in all I think Priest is only getting better going into SL, but I would like to see minor changes to Disc as I had mentioned. If you have any thoughts on anything I’ve said, please post it. I would appreciate civility, but I really don’t care if you hit me with “WTF is this? This isn’t how it works and you’re trash.” Any feedback is good feedback :).

2 Likes

I agree with your points! I think a .5 GCD is perfectly fine, as it’s a channel. Personally, I don’t mind the Dark Thoughts procs as I just wait until I’ve finished my channel to use them. Keep in mind, you don’t HAVE to use them either. Depending on how many adds are still up, it may not be marginally better from a DPS perspective.

For Fae Guardians, I also like this ability however I still think it should lower the CD of Voidform, not Shadowfiend. I like being able to lower the CDs of my group, but I would at least like to have the choice (from an efficiency standpoint) to be selfish with it. I also agree with the SW: P problem, however I think that’s just the nature of the beast and really isn’t worth burning brain power on for the devs. I’ve also run into the VF MB charge issue. It sort of creates a skill cap, but nothing I consider worth it.

A few things for healing Priests this update:

Holy:
–Apotheosis now resets the cooldowns of Holy Words when activated

Disc:
–Lenience (talent) returned to the level 50 row
–Spirit Shell now appears on the level 50 row, in place of Luminous Barrier, as an active talent that replaces Rapture. An old favorite, adapted to the current Discipline spec to work with Atonement, and providing an alternate method of preparing an absorb shield on your group.
–Rapture now instantly casts a PWS on the target when activated. Casting with a target is optional; it will put the shield on you if there isn’t one.

22 Likes

Whoa now, I love my Spirit Shell as much as anyone but I’m a little worried that an ability like that brought into today’s Disc would make Evangelism useless. Excited to try but my ideal talent tree for any class would be to find a place for every talent.

Nice QoL change for holy and I love it but there’s a lot of other issues I would rather have than this(no DR, having to talent movement ability, no tank dr, no passive damage)

For disc these seem like good changes at first glance but I don’t understand why evang isn’t baseline at this point. Its picked 100% of the time in raid. In m+ its different, there may be some choice. Rapture change i am in love with, what a great QoL change. I feel spirit shell will be mandatory in m+ or never picked just like luminous barrier.

3 Likes

Additionally, this week we want to highlight a change we’ve done to the Shadow Priest mastery.

In this change we’ve redesigned the mastery to be something more inline with the new changes, encouraging the Priest to stack their damage over time effects on targets for maximum effect. For each of your damage over time effects on the target, your damage is increased.

A twist: while in Void Form you gain full benefit of this mastery by dealing full damage on all targets, assuming they have all of your DoTs, whether they’re present on the target or not. We’ve decided to call this new mastery “Shadow Weaving,” invoking the name and spirit of an a legacy Shadow Priest talent.

  • Your damage is increased by x% for each of Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague on the target. During Void Form, all targets receive the maximum effect.

Let us know what you think!

25 Likes

Obviously tuning will dictate how relevant this actually is, but a more thematic, pointed, and logical mastery that doesn’t devalue our talents is a very welcome change.

23 Likes

I am pretty excited to see the return of Spirit Shell and I feel kinda 5head predicting that change (or you guys liked my idea in which case hell yeah :grin:)

With Evangelism staying on this row instead of being made baseline I certainly think this is interesting as it does open the possibility to see some playstyle changes for disc depending on which talent we take.

Hopefully as Dues mentioned one doesn’t just outright overshadow the other in raid but I can see the potential for it in M+ over Lenience.

Can’t wait to test this out :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Wait:
Lenience is back, lvl50
Spirit Shell is back, lvl50
Evangelism, lvl50
Light’s Caress, lvl50

So how does that work?

**edit: looks like Light’s Caress got axed?

3 Likes

Depends on how it scales if it will be good, but in flavor it is an incredibly good idea and much better than the “increased damage type damage” like mastery is for most specs. Please look into doing something like this so mastery isn’t such a boring stat for other classes. We like to see these kinds of thing’s being done.

Yes Light’s Caress was axed.

My only concern with Spirit Shell is it might end up needing to be capped due to scaling. We will see with some testing.

EDIT: Jk the old cap is in there

1 Like

The apotheosis change is a nice change, but I feel like Holy spec is being very neglected compared to well pretty much all other specs in the game. We still have a ton of issues, none of which are being addressed. Meanwhile disc who is already a better raid, mythic plus and pvp healer is getting more love.

Just to recap, Holy’s issues are:

  1. No damage reduction abilities - we die so easily in M+ in higher keys
  2. No built in movement abilities (make feather baseline already no one chooses any other talent)
  3. One of the few healers who has to stop healing to add dps (monk, paladin, disc, resto druid can all dps while healing)
  4. Undesirable because we bring nothing but healing to the table while other healers have utility in spades (dont think PI helps here because disc and shadow bring it as well)

Please give Holy some attention before it is too late. =(

45 Likes

Well said Xaeil.

The Holy Fire cast change has been the most confusing change thus far for holy. We have to commit more and more time away from healing to dps. Adding 3-4 more dps abilities wont do anything for the spec if we cant spend the time to cast them.

Feather needs to be made baseline. please. PLEASE. I want to use your other talents.

16 Likes

The Holy Fire change and the added mana cost on Smite work directly against what we’ve been advocating for, which is reduced friction in providing more damage to the group. We now have to invest more resources (cast time + mana) into dealing damage than we do currently on live for these spells. :skull_and_crossbones: RIP :skull_and_crossbones:

7 Likes

I don’t understand this part of the statement about the new shadow priest mastery functionality. Does this mean you have to have at least one of each DoT out on some target in order to get the full value on the %? As in, if I don’t have a Vampiric Touch out on any target, I lose “one stack” of said x% damage?

If you have VF up. Mastery applies in full effect to all targets

3 Likes

Honestly, just echoing this post. It’s all very solid feedback; highlights the major issues with our spec.

We bring a few minor things to the raid (Guardian Spirit, Symbol of Hope, Spirit of Redemption???) other than straight healing, but almost nothing that other Priest specs don’t also have (Mass Dispel, Leap of Faith, Power Infusion, Dispel Magic, Shackle Undead (lol), a speed increase you can give to other players, etc). There’s not a lot that Holy on its own brings, and certainly nothing as desirable as a raid damage reduction (or, you know, a usable personal CD). I’d be happy with a legendary that tacked DR onto, say, Divine Hymn, or something at this point if we’re not getting it baseline. Also, our Covenant abilities still have no interaction with our spec mechanics, while all of the ones for Disc work with atonement.

Speaking of Disc, it’s already in a powerful spot and has been for expansions, and yet it gets Spirit Shell back while Holy gets a quality of life change and nothing more. I am disappointed but not surprised. Barring the unknowns (like whether or not it will actually be better than Evangelism, whether or not it’s usable in a raid environment, tuning, etc.), that’s still insane given how incredibly overpowered the ability was back in MoP and how hard it was to balance. The fact that it was removed should say something.

As an aside, I love Spirit Shell. It’s fun. I also like Disc, but this build feels like the devs are giving the guy with all of the ice cream even more ice cream while your bowl only has a few sprinkles.

Our sprinkles, however, are mostly welcome. The Apotheosis change is great. I’ll get some solid use out of that in M+, though it will likely never be touched in raids over HW: Salvation. We do have some useful legendaries. PoM instant cast and Circle of Healing baseline was needed and appreciated. But, it’s not enough.

Holy still has a lot of fundamental issues, and I would like to see some of those addressed in this expansion, as they’ve been lingering for years.

21 Likes