FEEDBACK: Priest Class Changes

Wait, spammable cc what? No we don’t, excepting shear. Cap is a minute and hex is 30s.

Nonetheless, I’m just pointing out there’s currently no reason to bring a shaman compared to a mage. Sorry I riled up a number of people, and additionally I never claimed to be resto. The elemental preference is in the name. I was referring to the offheals that a dps has access to, not the healing issues in M+ for shaman. The only time a group actively brings a shaman is Shrine for that said interrupt, and all casters get sad benched that dungeon except shaman.

And this is the one utility shamans have access to that is a talent as I pointed out requires a talent. Not only does it require a talent, it takes away one of our only defensive options.

Yes, neither of our classes have great utility, but I wasn’t actually aware of the drums change when I made the post, so I did have some flawed information. It’s also more common to bring a priest in general to a key as a healer than a shaman - all three of my spec options are pretty sorely out classed in almost every way in m+. There’s a reason it’s a part of my week I hate doing, since I feel like I’m dead weight or more hindrance than help no matter what I do outside of wind shear.

Also, on that note. When an ele has to wind shear on CD, it affects dps just as noticeably as giving away Power Infusion does. It breaks rotational flow that significantly, with Hivemind being an easy example.

I’m going to ignore any comment on healing since even if I used my entire mana bar every pull healing, embrace would outheal me while doing baseline rotation for shadow. And please don’t bring up ankh, seeing as it’s often IF AT ALL used in a key, used for the group as a skip, and if you screw up or somehow got tagged in some way, your entire group blames you even if it wasn’t your fault. This is even ignoring the thirty minute cd and inability to be a night elf to do it without being forced to die.

Fine since it doesn’t look like trolling Ill bite twice,

Apologies about hex, I often ran with a boomkin and shaman as the three dps in a M+ group with friends, As much as he used hex I thought it was spamable, I didn’t look to heavy into it. But I also totally forgot about shaman knockback.

Also thanks for bringing up another piece of utility that we dont have access to, a combat drop, we had it at one point as a talent, that was sort of gimmicky to use at times but many combat drops are. immunities also often fall in this category because both can often be used as a skip mechanic or just flat out nullify a one-shot mechanic Something else priest do not have access to

the Ankh totem comment was actually sort of satire btw :stuck_out_tongue: I believe its an Ion quote from here I think
it drew a lot of furor after it happened

I also wanna point out that I said have access to and how its different from have. I tried to be clear on which is which
I also never assumed your spec, just dps, but I don’t think that was at me

As for shrine not that it is saying much I have timed a 15 shrine with a shaman boomkin and shadow priest :slight_smile:

Now to get out of the banter of grass is greener and get to priests topics in the priest forums , yes VE is group utility… I guess, Its not a smart heal and more often than not it becomes overhaling, in a 5 man its a little different? If you can use it at optimal times? but more often than not its better to prevent damage than try to recover from it, lust on terrible pack of super deadly mobs, cc to prevent them from doing damage, kicks to prevent damage done etc. especially in the higher keys more than what I have done as things become one-shot mechanics that cant just put more healing into, cant heal dead. Prevented damage is just so much more valuable than throughput healing.

I guess its only a really powerful tool when its skillfully used … maybe, I feel like its not significant enough to justify that treatment, If it was a smarter heal or benefited more than once person at a time that argument might have more of a leg to stand on.

Again couple bad cc (including kick) and lack of meaning full group utility makes for a bad combination to put into once class

For discussion for those wanting to banter, thoughts on turning power infusion into a group benefit cooldown which would give us something I think we could really really use and simultaneously get rid of all the dread and awkward feeling of giving away our useful cooldown? No more “simp” buff? I’m not for sure what could/should be implemented but giving away your cooldown to someone else that could have benefited me just sounds wrong on so many levels to me, I would really like to see this changed in some way where this isn’t even a thought of being a possibility, the legendary effect isn’t a compromise in my book because doing so your also giving up another legendary that would benefit you just so you can increase someone else’s dps.

For the point of discussion, priests, thoughts on just a better interrupt, would that be a big enough bump in your eyes to avoid being turned down for groups so much? Well in reality its not so much of your being turned down its more of some one else is being accepted someone who brings more to what they want.


Mind Games Feedback

So I managed to get an alt to work with Venthir, so I’ve been leveling in Revendreth with Mind Games for about 4 levels and have a bit of feedback.

The length of the debuff feels too short, for example while leveling if I cast MG on a target at max range and it runs over to me, the debuff will have dropped before they get to me. So at that point it’s just a damage spell that basically does Holy Fire damage (I’m testing Holy at the moment) with a long CD. For a Shadow Priest who will use Mind Flay as part of their rotation, a target with the debuff will never make it to the Priest.

This requires further testing, but I don’t think the ability plays nicely with Shields. If I’m at less than 100% health but have PW: Shield up, I don’t think I get healed when a debuffed mob smacks me. One thing more controlled testing could confirm is whether or not if a debuffed enemy damages the shield (which I don’t think it should), does nothing to it, or even buffs the shield. Does anyone have experience with this?

Testing solo it’s difficult to setup a controlled situations exactly to test it. Also since the zone feels so empty with only one or two others players running around, I can’t even duel to test it.

Overall, I really like the idea of the spell, it’s single target which while not ideal in every situation, at least has value in every situation. But if the debuff drops off before it’s used, it becomes very lackluster since that debuff is what makes it interesting.


Legacy of the Void

With the PTR build having the Shadowlands prepatch, the time for iterations is vastly dwindling. Because of this, I am going to get straight to the point and give my thoughts on exactly what needs to be done to Legacy of the Void for it to be the healthiest iteration possible. Because this recent iteration, to put it lightly, leaves me worrisome.

Here are the changes for those who are not aware of them:

While in Voidform, you gain 1% haste every 2 sec and your Void Bolt will also extend the duration of your Devouring Plague on nearby targets by 6 sec.


Legacy of the Void, per the developers’ thoughts, should evoke the fantasy of Voidform from Legion and Battle for Azeroth. It is apparent that the change to provide stacking haste attempts to do this, but it fails. This stacking haste is identical to the average stacking haste of pre-rework Voidform – 1% haste every 2sec is the same as .5% haste every 1sec – and there was resounding agreement that pre-rework Voidform was not engaging or compelling enough to players.

Suggestions: Legacy of the Void grants Voidform stacking haste of 1% every 1sec.


Legacy of the Void, prior to this change, was in a balanceable state because it was in direct opposition to Devouring Plague, which has a concrete damage value. A main issue with Voidform’s balance during Legion and Battle for Azeroth is that Insanity did not have any inherent damage value. A Voidform that directly competes with an Insanity spender is easier to be balanced because the Insanity drained can be directly compared to the Insanity that would have been spent with the spender.

Suggestions: Remove Devouring Plague synergy from Legacy of the Void. Insanity drain inside Legacy of the Void should make up for the damage loss of not being able to cast Devouring Plague. To compete with Devouring Plague, Voidform should have more baseline power.
E.g. Legacy of the Void causes Voidform to also increase your haste by 10% (in addition to stacking haste).

This new iteration of Legacy of the Void fails to address both of these topics. Change it for the better. Please.


In the last two builds of the Shadowlands Beta, we’ve made further changes to Shadow to address feedback, and to further refine the core spec changes in Shadowlands. Most of these changes are adjustments to talents and spells to bring them more in line, such as Surrender to Madness, which we feel has been too powerful in too many situations.

Damage and Insanity Tuning

In the previous build, you may have noticed that we changed the damage values of various spells on the Shadow Priest. The goal here is to rebalance the spells among each other. For example, how much more damage should Vampiric Touch deal than Shadow: Word Pain? Players should now see a more healthy spread of how much damage each of their spells contributes.

Specifically tuning the Priest in contrast to the other DPS specs will come in a future build.

Additionally, we’ve modified the Insanity values that are generated from many different spells. We feel that Insanity generation is a bit high, but we’re mindful of players positive feelings of the cadence of the rotation.

Legacy of the Void
We want the Legacy of the Void talent to be available for Priests who are fond of the current live Void Form gameplay, and also a viable choice depending on the situation. We recognize that the talent had issues with the revamp design of Void Form and Void Eruption, and made some changes. It now has the ramping haste mechanic players are familiar with. We’ve also added an interact with Devouring Plague, causing your Void Bolt (while specced into LotV) to add duration to Devouring Plague. This may be too powerful, but let us know what you think.

Void Eruption
We’ve removed the Insanity threshold requirement needed to cast Void Eruption, as it doesn’t make as much sense with the new gameplay.


We want the ramping haste of Legion back. We want to feel our haste getting higher while in Voidform. There is a valid reason as to why Uldir Shadow (when we did not run Lingering Insanity) and pre-rework Voidform were such despised by the community.

Yes it’s too powerful because Voidform’s drain should be an opportunity cost to spending Insanity with Devouring Plague. Make Legacy of the Void’s Voidform strong and get rid of Devouring Plague synergy.

Here is what I see the level 50 talent row design as:

Ancient Madness: Stronger Voidform
Legacy of the Void: Weaker but longer Voidform
Surrender to Madness: More frequent Voidforms

You cannot have Legacy of the Void both a stronger and a longer Voidform. It does not work with the way you have designed your talents.


Some additional thoughts:

Devouring Plague is currently healing for too much, and we’re hotfixing the Beta to put it back to its former tuning of healing the Priest for 50% of the damage done. The Beta hotfix will also restore Vampiric Touch to heal the Priest for 50% of its damage done.

Void Bolt is currently extending the duration of Devouring Plague at a greater duration than intended. We’re working on a Beta hotfix to change the design of Legacy of the Void to refresh the duration of Devouring Plague on the target of Void Form, rather than extending the duration of the DoT on all nearby targets.

The tooltip is incorrect for Searing Nightmare. If the targets have Shadow Word: Pain present, it deals 100% increased damage (not 185%).


Everything I’m about to talk about is about Legacy, to be frank I don’t care about anything else.

The changes just put us back to where we were at the start of BETA with awkward DP gameplay and a lackluster voidform. The good news I guess is…at least it’s better than it was ‘yesterday’. The bad news is…early beta wasn’t enough AND you still put it on a CD…so it’s still a net loss for me as a player and a direct downgrade over 8.0. (and we all know how we feel about 8.0)

DP is the COUNTER to Legacy Voidform. Legacy gameplay should be the choice to sacrifice your DP for pushing VF. They are counters, so suggest removing that dot interaction with legacy.

Ryeshot also pointed out; the haste values is not enough. We’ve already done extensive testing on that; 0.5% from BFA (same as 1% every 2 seconds) is lackluster and why 8.0 and 8.1 felt so awful. I’ve personally put hours and hours of evaluating this over the past two years, Legion, BFA beta, BFA and all Beta builds…1% per stack/sec or bust.

From my perspective legacy VF should NOT have a CD; I’m looking for a solution to the ‘builder/spender/cd window’ pigeon hole the rework created. Having VF on a CD just doesn’t resonate well with me and Legacy I feel IS the solution to that.

All that said; we are running out of time for iterations- as well as saving my personal hope that any of this works out enough for me to play Shadowlands. PLEASE push us a change and let us stress test these suggestions sooner than later- if not; frankly I’m just about out of hope.

Lastly I’ll comment: if BFA surrender didn’t break the game, and Legion surrender didn’t break the game for NH, ToS, Antorus then there’s no reason we cannot have a proper legacy gameplay loop…

Summary (LEGACY ONLY):
Remove dot extension on DP
Haste1% per stack/second
Remove VF CD


I think the Mind Games change is good and addresses half it’s issues, although I still think the debuff needs a longer duration.


My feedback on the Discipline Priest changes and state in Shadowlands. I include where things feel good and where they might be able to use some iteration.

Core Abilities

Mind Soothe:
This spell is a big quality of life improvement in the open world. It also has some very powerful applications in dungeon settings. Currently it feels very good to use, and the threat reduction radius is very noticeable. This has the potential to somewhat exploitive in a dungeon setting where entire packs of mobs can have their threat range completely nullified, without a cooldown.

Mind Blast
This spell comes advertised as a big damage nuke that comes at a cost. At 2.5% base mana it delivers on the cost, though the current scaling on this (-45% damage aura at time of posting) makes this spell fall short of advertisement on the former. As it plays out, the power level of this spell is largely in the absorption, which doesn’t synergize well at all with the core atonement mechanic of the spec.

Consider: Moving the power budget of this spell into better alignment between the damage and absorption mechanic.

Shadow Word: Death
This spell has had a couple of iterations to move the power budget into the execute phase, and I am on board with the direction we’re taking here. Note that shadow word: death DOES deliver on the advertisement of doing damage at a cost, and is still the hardest hitting ability in discipline’s baseline toolkit, even outsdie of execute. My main issue with this spell is the damage return portion during execute and on mobs with damage taken increases. It is not a feel good moment to instantly kill yourself using a baseline spell.

I will also echo a few others in saying that having sw:d not transfer to atonement baseline is a limiting design - it naturally elevates the power of kiss of death to levels other legendaries would struggle to compete with, and limits our ability to make a meaningful decision on that front.

Consider: Capping the damage taken to a certain % of hp, uncoupling the damage return from external modifiers (such as + damage during execute, + damage taken debuffs on monsters)

Mana Cost Reshuffling
The past few builds have seen some updates to mana costs, such as those on Smite, Mind Sear, Mind Blast, and Shadow Word: Death. I think these are all thoughtful and generally encourage gameplay that feels good. Smite is now going to be correct to cast outside of burst rotations, mind sear will be mainly utilized during shadow damage amps and aoe damage situations, and sw:d is being made more realistic in its power level/cost. I like this direction in general, no concerns on this one for me.

I will keep this feedback to a couple of rows that I think could benefit from some love, as there hasn’t been significant iteration here. I’m happy to go more in depth if it’s helpful at a later time.

Level 25
We’re going on several expansions now where a specialization that has zero mobility and zero personal damage reduction abilities baseline has to select between them for a talent. This decision feels less like an opportunity cost and more like a punishment.

Consider: Now that Power Word: Shield is available to all priest specializations, body and soul could possibly be made baseline in some capacity. This would reduce the pressure on players to select angelic feather in almost all relevant content.

Level 50
Luminous Barrier is a talent that has typically had negative value since it was created. It’s problematic in the sense that it is outcompeted by Power Word: Barrier outside of an exceedingly rare confluence of events. As a result, it seems like the talent that could use some focus in shadowlands. Evangelism is among the most powerful throughput cooldowns in the entire game, and as a result, I think it’s right from a design point to steer other talents in this row towards other goals than raid throughput. Right now, Light’s Caress provides a very small benefit in all content, even 5 man content.

Consider: Retaining lenience for its value in small group and solo content, reworking Luminous barrier to no longer replace Power Word: Barrier so it has a net positive effect to take the talent.

Covenant Abilities
I don’t include any feedback for faerie guardians as I have not had the chance to test it, and as it is currently undergoing a good amount of iteration.

Currently Boon of the Ascended is much stronger than any other option available. It aligns with the evangelism cooldown to allow for an incredibly powerful burst healing window, and does staggering amounts of damage relative to the rest of the kit. The eruption at the end of the window currently triggers atonement for each target hit. This feels extremely powerful, and maybe a bit bland. The 1 second baseline GCD on abilities associated with boon of the ascended is a little jarring, and seems unnecessary.

Consider - Instead of reducing the GCD on boon’s added abilities, keep them at a base 1.5 s gcd and tune output/stacks generated appropriately. Also consider updating ascended eruption to only trigger atonement on the first instance of its damage.


Unholy Nova has seen some iteration in the past weeks. It feels good as a button to press for AoE damage, which discipline lacks in its kit. The recent changes have made its interactions with atonement particularly anemic, and the decreases in the value of the life gain on hit effect have further lowered the power level of this spell for discipline. Removing the AoE atonement and life gain on hit portions seems reasonable, though the spell is left feeling a bit anemic and might need a bit more thought as to how to keep it relevant for discipline priests moving forward.

Mind Games
At present, this ability plays as a slightly more powerful mind blast on a 45 second cooldown. Mind Games does work with the discipline kit to an extent, though similarly to mind blast, has difficulty competing with other covenant abilities due to the way its power budget is routed through the absorb more than the damage of the spell.

Consider: Add a mode of the spell to cast on an ally for healing and the damage reversal effect, or on an enemy for damage and healing reversal. This would allow the power budget to be moved towards damage without punishing holy priests, and might allow some versatility to the ability to allow it to be relevant in more content. It might free up more space to play with power levels of the specific components.

Overall the available legendaries to disc provide a number of good options and feel like good design choices. My main concern here is simply that kiss of death threatens to overshadow the entire suite of choices due to the decision to remove atonement from the baseline version of Shadow Word: Death.

Consider - Kiss of Death can empower Shadow Word: Death in other ways, even if the baseline spell is updated to apply atonement. There’s plenty of good design space here that allows other legendaries to be competitive.

Final Thoughts
Discipline as a spec feels powerful in raid content in shadowlands, and maintains the core feel of the spec. Some of the added utility and dps buttons feel good to use, though perhaps too many tools have been added that emphasize the burst aoe healing that discipline is known for, without as much attention paid to the weaker elements of the spec (healing throughput on a low target count, throughput support outside of burst windows). The burst rotation feels very bloated now with the addition of multiple spells that exist specifically to all be cast within the very same short window of burst. Ultimately my impressions are positive, and the changes to the spec in the past weeks appear to be aimed at ameliorating concerns I have had while testing.

Thanks for reading !


Void Eruption no longer requiring Insanity to cast is a very welcome change.

Every new build I am seeing some changes for the better, and some changes – in my mind – for the worse. At some point these changes will cease and we will be left with what we have.

Shadow still has some major flaws that need to be corrected; namely Insanity overcapping (mostly while in Voidform), Dark Thoughts not proccing often or long enough to be compelling, and now Legacy of the Void.

Please address these concerns soon so we do not have to fear that the spec will go live with the issues still being present.


Agree on Mind Sooth, especially with mobs always being your level, it’s nice when you are just trying to turn in quests and want to move by some mobs.

During the Venthyr storyline quests, I used it plenty of times to avoid mobs because I was trying to get to a point I needed to get to.


Some feedback on the newest changes

Legacy of the Void: This talent seems incredibly difficult to tune, especially with changes to insanity and potential interaction with legendaries and conduits. While I get the idea of keeping the legacy of old voidform intact, making the talent playable while also not being the dominant choice seems to be a nearly impossible task. The changes required to keep it in a manageable spot while also appeasing those who greatly miss old voidform seem incredibly difficult as well. I think this talent isn’t worth the difficulties managing it and ideally another option is designed as early as possible to replace it.

Shadow crash: My burning hatred for this ability might cause some bias, but an aoe ground targeted ability shouldn’t be the one that takes the single target niche. The cooldown is incredibly long compared to it’s power, and the cutting of its insanity gain makes it feel even worse to press. This ability almost never actually feels good to press, and aside from redesigning it so it becomes a good option for uncapped aoe where multidotting isn’t available, i’d prefer to see this talent buried in the ground.

other: The surrender to madness changes seem like a step in the right direction, but it’s potentially too strong still. Tying the voidform length to the target’s death makes a good step in stopping the ability being used to snipe nearly dead targets for a second voidform, which while valuable, doesn’t fit the idea of skill expression tied to the idea of surrender to madness.

Void torrent changes alongside void eruption feel much much better, thanks for this, and the dark thoughts change also feels much better, although it requires more testing to see if it feels like it’s enough.


I think Ayowolo did a great job explaining some concerns as well as praises for Disc and I agree with it. I’d like to talk about a couple of things as well.

In regards to some mana changes:
I’m very happy to see that smite has been adjusted to be a safely spammable spell in our downtime once again. This is a very welcome change since we no longer have to either sit there and do nothing or spam Mind Sear in downtime.

I think adding a mana cost to Shadow Word: Death was a good change. It will help curve the spamming of this ability a teeny bit and as a result the power of Kiss of Death. However, Shadow Word: Death has some other issues that the mana change alone will not fix. While the change might prevent the outright spamming of SW:D the power of Kiss of Death will likely not be affected at all or the benefit will vastly outweigh the “detriment”.

In regards to some of our legendaries:
Kiss of Death is still quite powerful despite the new mana cost for SW:D and threatens to overshadow the other legendary choices we have. This is especially true when coupled with modifiers such as shadow covenant + schism. Ayo has already gone into depth on the problems of the interactions between SW:D and Kiss of Death and I agree 100%.

The Penitent, as I’ve said before, is a lot of fun. Unfortunately we have seen no changes to help boost this legendary to be more competitive with the other options we have. The major problem with this legendary is that due to the 50% chance on Power Word: Radiance cast we have no real control on when we can benefit from this legendary. As a result, this legendary falls short in comparison to all of the other choices because we are not relying on RNG for the others. We will always benefit from the others while The Penitent could potentially never help us even one time over the course of an encounter.

There a few things that could fix this legendary to be more in line with the others:

  1. I have already suggested this in previous posts and I have also seen others suggest this. Allow us to guarantee ourselves a proc by changing it so that it is granted every other PW:R cast. I’ve seen this described as a 1-2 desk system.

  2. Change it to be a 100% chance on PW:R cast but add a short cooldown to the effect.

  3. Allow us to hold onto the buff until our next Penance cast.

Cauterizing Shadows - I am happy to see the change that took place a few weeks ago. I was worried that this legendary was going to completely overshadow all of the others in any of kind content that allowed us to simply spam our dots on weak adds and continuously heal the party to full. I have not tested it since the change but the nerf from max hp to spell power is a welcome change.

Thoughts on our talents:

I completely agree with this. With Body and Soul baseline to all three specs the talent row could then be changed to appropriately allow us to choose between different defensive/self defense utility talents rather than trying to force us to choose between mobility and defensives.


Even if Body and Soul is not made baseline for all 3 specs there is something I have not seen enough people talking about since its addition to Holy.

Body and Soul should not have replaced Perseverance as a talent. I understand that Disc can choose between BnS and Feathers as well but Disc gets to keep Masochism. Masochism can be coupled with the bonus health from Desperate Prayer at the very least to help make up for poor defensives. The removal of Perseverance has resulted in Holy’s inability to mirror this effect.

Holy already suffered enough in its tankiness and the removal of Perseverance has made this worse. Body and Soul is essentially just a bad version of Feathers. This is true for Disc as well but as I said previously Disc gets to keep Masochism.

This change is very harmful to Holy and with Feathers in the talent row there was no need to replace Perseverance with Body and Soul because Feathers will always win between the two (as it typically does with Disc).

Please consider reverting this change, making Body and Soul baseline for all three specs as suggested previously, or making Perseverance a baseline passive for Holy.

40 Talent Row

As it stands the talent row seems to be designed to accomplish this:

  • Sins of the Many: Small sustained damage boost
  • Contrition: Sacrifice damage for more party healing without atonement targets present
  • Shadow Covenant: Provide a small burst of healing as well as a large boost in damage on a cooldown and at a cost

I like the idea of this talent row and I think all three talents do a good job holding the identity that each of them are trying to provide. However, Contrition is far too weak. It doesn’t heal enough to warrant giving up the added damage from either of the two sources and as long as we have targets to dps the healing provided from just dpsing with a damage boost is great than if I were to try to heal my party with contrition. Even if we don’t have targets to damage it would be better for us to just cycle a Shadowmend to each party member.

With Shadow Covenant healing and providing 25% increased damage and healing I can hardly think of a situation where I would take Contrition over Shadow Covenant if I want on demand party healing. This is a problem with Contrition and not balancing with Shadow Covenant. Even only a 5% damage buff from Sins of the Many gives double healing through atonement than Contrition will if I defensive Penance.

Tier 50

Back on Evnagelism - I know I’ve said this like four times already but I’m going to keep bringing it up. Evangelism will almost always win for raid and should be made baseline.

It seems as if there are two things trying to be accomplished by this talent row. I think it would be better to focus in on one or the other, rather than both at the same time.

The are two things that I think this talent row is trying to do are:

  1. This talent row is trying to provide a callback to Disc’s damage reduction days and can be accomplished by:

Divine Aegis could see a return as a passive talent. In order to balance this to prevent drastically shifting our current gameplay away from ramping and preparing to deal damage for burst windows it can be limited to 5 maximum applications per critical strike. So even if we have 20 atonements out and we crit, only five party members receive a shield. This prevents abuse in raid but also maintains strength in a 5 man environment.

Luminous Barrier needs to see a rework or a buff. The most suggested change is remove the replacement of Power Word: Barrier.

Light’s Caress buff. The point of Barrier is to put it down before the damage comes out. The heal could be added flavor but consider adding an extra 5-10% damage reduction to keep the identity of the talent row.

The return of Lenience in place of Light’s Caress.

  1. This talent row is trying to be an effective way to modify our cooldown gameplay and can be accomplished by:

Spirit Shell as I mentioned it above.
Luminous Barrier replacing Power Word: Barrier but providing a small amount of damage reduction as long as the shield persists.
The return of Light’s Wrath.
The same change to Light’s Caress I mentioned above.

I feel that this talent row is struggling to pull from both of these concepts and should be focused in on one. This would allow us to choose talents based on the encounter or content we are doing more comfortably. As it stands the talent row is currently dead with Evangelism being essentially the only option.

Also Light’s Caress is still bugged and is currently only healing the priest and it provides the heal upon placement and expiration regardless of the location of the priest casting it. I receive the heal if I place it on myself or if I place it at max range and don’t move.

Overall I am quite happy with the priest changes we have seen so far and I am looking forward to Shadowlands despite some the problems we have. Thank you guys for you time and hard work.


not really sure why unholy nova was effectively deleted from the game today.

the last round of nerfs provided to be effective.

how good should a covenant be?


Regarding Boon of the Ascended

For Shadow Priests, Boon of the Ascended replaces Mind Flay, which is our filler spell. This can be awkward to use, but while in Voidform can be compelling since we have enough non-filler spells for its 3sec cooldown to not be an issue.

The change today causes Ascended Blast to now generate the same amount of Insanity per global as Mind Flay, going from 12 to 6. This does not feel good as the nature of the cooldown is striving to quicken the game, both in pacing of the rotation and movement. Even though Ascended Blast may deal considerably more damage than Mind Flay, I no longer feel strong because my Insanity generation remains the same inside and outside Boon of the Ascended.


  • Revert the nerf to Insanity generation on Ascended Blast and make it generate 12 Insanity

See I disagree there. I think adds a certain risk and flavour to using it. I enjoyed it in cata and im enjoying it now and yes I have killed myself.


I’d like to talk about Legacy of the Void for a second.

Although I’ve previously made it quite clear that I was not on team #savevoidform I think Legacy can actually save the playstyle that Legion/BfA Shadow was.

I strongly agree with Ryeshot that scaling haste alone was not Void Form’s biggest issue.

Previously our talent trees, borrowed power like our artifact and azerite traits, and general damage tuning was all built specifically for Void Form. Because of the power being added into Void Form rather just the general strength of our class when we coupled it with scaling haste we saw ourselves become absolute monsters and required tuning outside of Void Form. This is only part of what played into our high highs and low lows but I believe it exacerbated the problem much more than it really should have.

In Legion it was insane haste AND % increase on our DoT damage.

In BfA it was insane haste, crit from Chorus of Insanity AND insane Shadowy Apparition damage from Auspicious Spirits and Spiteful Apparitions.

I’m not even going to pretend that I am an expert on Void Form and I would rather not see the return of Void Form as a major mechanic but I believe that Legacy can be changed to preserve the previous identity of Void Form without scaling us out of control because we are no longer using borrowed power and mandatory talents as a crutch.

My suggestion:

  • Remove the cooldown on Void Form while Legacy of the Void is selected.

  • As Ryeshot said, remove the synergy between Void Bolt and Devouring Plague. Perhaps even remove the ability to USE Devouring Plague if Legacy of the Void is selected.

  • As Nyelle said, return the scaling haste value to 1% per 1 second rather than .5% per 1 second

With the new adjustments being made to spread our damage across our abilities more healthily I think maintaining 20% bonus damage in Void Form as well as 1% haste per stack and the loss of Devouring Plague with Legacy of the Void selected is a decent trade off.

If this shows to be too powerful later in the expansion as we scale with haste Void Form strength adjustments in the Legacy talent itself can always be tuned similarly to how it used to give an additional 5%. If it’s too strong later it could reduce Void Forms % damage bonus by 5% as an example. However with the loss of DP I don’t think this would even happen.

Nyelle and Shot can pick this apart if they’d like.

Again, I far prefer new(old) Shadow over Void Form Shadow but I think Legacy actually can save Void Form for those who loved it and I think we still have the time to see more changes to the talent to make it work.

Thanks for reading.


I don’t get why keep trying to make LoTV work, if you guys wanted to try and fix it in the first place why did you even add DP. Just let it die and keep it fun for some people for contents such low keys or open world. Trying to please both crowd will just make things worst.