FEEDBACK: Priest Class Changes

Updated August 19

In the last two builds of the Shadowlands Beta, we’ve made further changes to Shadow to address feedback, and to further refine the core spec changes in Shadowlands. Most of these changes are adjustments to talents and spells to bring them more in line, such as Surrender to Madness, which we feel has been too powerful in too many situations.

Damage and Insanity Tuning

In the previous build, you may have noticed that we changed the damage values of various spells on the Shadow Priest. The goal here is to rebalance the spells among each other. For example, how much more damage should Vampiric Touch deal than Shadow: Word Pain? Players should now see a more healthy spread of how much damage each of their spells contributes.

Specifically tuning the Priest in contrast to the other DPS specs will come in a future build.

Additionally, we’ve modified the Insanity values that are generated from many different spells. We feel that Insanity generation is a bit high, but we’re mindful of players positive feelings of the cadence of the rotation.

Legacy of the Void
We want the Legacy of the Void talent to be available for Priests who are fond of the current live Void Form gameplay, and also a viable choice depending on the situation. We recognize that the talent had issues with the revamp design of Void Form and Void Eruption, and made some changes. It now has the ramping haste mechanic players are familiar with. We’ve also added an interact with Devouring Plague, causing your Void Bolt (while specced into LotV) to add duration to Devouring Plague. This may be too powerful, but let us know what you think.

Void Eruption
We’ve removed the Insanity threshold requirement needed to cast Void Eruption, as it doesn’t make as much sense with the new gameplay.


August 11

Greetings Priests! In the latest build we have made some significant changes to Fae Blessings. We heard feedback that it wasn’t quite hitting the mark for a covenant ability, and we agree. In reworking this ability, we want to address Power Word: Shield, add a personal benefit to the spell, and make the spell more usable for Shadow Priests, while still keeping its identity as a powerful group support spell.

The ability is now named “Fae Guardians,” to better represent the new design, and to differentiate it from Blessing of the Seasons.

  • Fae Guardians (1.5 minute cooldown) – Call forth three faerie guardians to attend your targets for 20 seconds.
    • Wrathful Faerie: Your direct attacks against the target restore 1% Mana or 6 Insanity. Follows your Shadow Word: Pain.
    • Guardian Faerie: Reduces damage taken by 10%. Follows your Power Word: Shield.
    • Benevolent Faerie: Increases the cooldown recovery rate of a major ability by 100%. Follows your Shadow Mend / Flash Heal.

Rather than using up charges, you can now manage 3 persistent Faerie buffs. Each Faerie can only exist on 1 target at a time. When you cast Fae Guardians, the Guardian and Benevolent Faerie will be summoned immediately on yourself. You can then cast Power Word: Shield to move the Guardian Faerie to your desired target, Shadow Mend to move the Benevolent Faerie, and Shadow Word: Pain to apply the Wrathful Faerie. Note that the Wrathful Faerie only restores mana or Insanity for the Priest, not their allies.

Our goal is to make the ability more flexible, require less maintenance, and provide fun gameplay for all three Priest specializations.


August 4

Greetings,

We’ve heard your feedback on Shadow Priests and spent some time performing more extensive changes to the spec – including changes to baseline skills and talents. Most importantly, we’ve taken a deeper look at Voidform.

Voidform

Along with Insanity, Voidform was introduced in Legion as a central component of a Shadow Priest redesign that explored the fantasy of tapping into dark, mind-twisting void magic for temporary power. From a gameplay standpoint, this was expressed as building up Insanity, entering Voidform, then battling against decaying Insanity to prolong your time in this powerful state. This design has not been a clear winner for several players as we often receive feedback that people do not enjoy fighting the resource decay in order to inflict reasonable damage. On the other hand, we also hear from people who enjoy Voidform but feel it is not transformative enough. Over time, the design has proved problematic and Voidform uptime has dominated the spec, going far beyond our original intention. Now, any talents, items, legendaries, etc. that do not feed into Voidform are considered undesirable. We want time in Voidform to feel more impactful and as a result, we are limiting the time you can undergo the transformation by applying a cooldown. By default, the ability will no longer have the decaying resource mechanic, but that gameplay will be more appropriately placed in the redesigned talent, Legacy of the Void, so that players can have the option to choose the “legacy” feel of Voidform.

Devouring Plague

Feedback suggested the duration of Devouring Plague was too long. While we reduced the duration from its historic 21 second duration to 12 seconds, we agree this still feels too long so we’re reducing it further to 6 seconds. We’ve also fixed bugs that prevented Devouring Plague from scaling with Haste or Critical Strike and we’ve also increased its damage.

General Gameplay

We’re introducing a new passive called Dark Thoughts that adds a baseline proc in the rotation which we feel spices up the general rotation. We want damage over time effects to matter to Shadow Priests, so we’ve made it so Dark Thoughts and other mechanics interact with that core theme.

Talents

We’ve gone through a number of talents and made adjustments in an effort to make choices a bit more competitive in a variety of situations. Unfurling Darkness and Psychic Link support Shadow Priests multi-dotting strength, while Damnation and Surrender to Madness provide tools for Shadow Priests to quickly burst targets down when the encounter demands it.

Lastly, we want to spotlight the new talent, Searing Nightmare. Searing Nightmare can assist Shadow Priests in situations like Mythic+ where higher sustained AOE could be useful.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and your unending passion.

Baseline Changes

  • Void Eruption’s cast time is reduced by 40%.
  • Mind Blast (Rank 2) reduces cooldown of Mind Blast by 7.5 seconds (was 7 seconds).
  • Shadow Word: Death no longer generates Insanity.
  • Shadowy Apparitions re-designed – When you use Mind Blast, Devouring Plague or Void Bolt you also create a shadowy version of yourself that floats towards all targets afflicted by your Vampiric Touch dealing Shadow damage. Critical Strikes will cause two Shadowy Apparitions to be created.
  • Voidform
    • Now has a 90 second cooldown and now increases damage by 20% and lasts for 15 seconds.
    • Voidform no longer reduces the cooldown of Mind Blast, but now refreshes the cooldown of Mind Blast and you gain 2 charges while in Voidform.
    • You no longer gain Haste every 0.5 seconds while in Voidform.
  • Devouring Plague
    • Devouring Plague’s duration reduced to 6 seconds and damage increased by 50%.
      • Developers’ note: Lowering the duration of the damage over time effect to make it punchier so that sequential Devouring Plague’s don’t overlap (accounting for potential overflow).
    • Devouring Plague will now properly critically strike.
    • Devouring Plague is now a level 20 spell.
  • New Spell
    • Dark Thoughts (Passive) (Level 16) – For each of your damage over time effects on the target, your Mind Flay and Mind Sear have a 2% chance to instantly add a charge of Mind Blast, causing it to be instantly cast, and allowing it to be cast while channeling Mind Flay or Mind Sear within 6 seconds.
      • Dark Thoughts can stack up to 5 times for situations where the Shadow Priest will proc many in a short time.

Talents

  • Tier 15
    • Shadowy Insight has been removed.
    • Shadow Word: Void has been removed.
    • Death and Madness is now available on this tier.
    • New Talent: Unfurling Darkness – After casting Vampiric Touch on a target, your next Vampiric Touch is instant cast and deals 155% SP Shadow damage instantly. This effect cannot occur more than once every 15 seconds.
  • Tier 40
    • New Talent: Psychic Link – Mind Blast deals 60% of its damage to all targets afflicted by your Vampiric Touch within 40 yards.
  • Tier 45
    • Lingering Insanity has been removed.
    • Dark Void has been removed.
    • New Talent: Searing Nightmare – Instantly deals Shadow damage to all enemies around the target and afflicts them with Shadow Word: Pain. If the enemy is already afflicted by your Shadow Word: Pain, Searing Nightmare deals double damage. Only usable while channeling Mind Sear.
    • New Talent: Damnation – Instantly afflicts the target with Shadow Word: Pain, Vampiric Touch and Devouring Plague free of cost. 45 seconds cooldown.
    • Void Torrent – No longer pauses your Insanity while used, but now refreshes the duration of your Shadow damage over time effects on the target while its channeling.
  • Tier 50
    • Dark Ascension has been removed.
    • Legacy of the Void re-designed – Voidform no longer has a duration. However, during Voidform your Insanity will drain increasingly fast until it reaches 0 and Voidform ends. Voidform increases spell damage by an additional 5%.
    • Surrender to Madness – Reduced to a 90 second cooldown.
    • New Talent: Ancient Madness – Entering Voidform increases your critical strike chance by 30% for 15 seconds, reducing its effect by 2% per second.

PvP Talents

  • New Talent: Lasting Plague – Increases the duration of Devouring Plague by 6 seconds.

Updated June 24

In this next build of the Shadowlands Alpha, we have updates to Shadow Priests that are intended to address some common concerns about the spec.

Returning Ability: Devouring Plague

We’ve seen a lot of feedback that Voidform can be challenging to utilize to its full potential in some combat situations, such as in Mythic Keystone dungeons on non-boss encounters, or for leveling and doing outdoor content. We tend to agree that Voidform can feel unrewarding in situations where it becomes difficult to maintain efficient insanity generation. Rather than heavily re-designing Voidform, we’re introducing a new tool for these combat situations with the return of Devouring Plague.

Along with Void Eruption, Devouring Plague will be the only other spell that costs Insanity. Our intent with Devouring Plague is for it to be used on enemies who die quickly, such as common creatures while leveling, or on simple trash pulls, while Voidform is more powerful on longer combat encounters.

Shadow Word: Death

Although we’ve seen a lot of excitement around this iconic spell making a return, we have concerns that it wasn’t very clear what its role will be in the modern Shadow Priest kit. Shadow Word: Death has always been intended to be an “execute” ability, so it must be something that is mostly used in the outdoor/leveling content. In the past, Shadow Word: Death found itself in Priest’s core rotations, even being used repeatedly against targets that weren’t about to die.

For Shadowlands, we don’t intend to add another core button to the Priest’s normal rotation. We want Shadow Word: Death to be situational. However, we feel that it could be a little more relevant in longer encounters such as boss fights. We’ve changed Shadow Word: Death to now deal 100% additional damage to targets at or below 20% health. Priests may now find that they wish to weave Shadow Word: Death into their rotations in some situations.


We feel that these changes will have a very meaningful impact on how the Shadow Priest now plays.

After you’ve tested this out in the Alpha, please let us know what you think. Thank you!


April 9

In this thread, we’re discussing Priest class changes coming in World of Warcraft: Shadowlands.

Read more about initial class changes in the World of Warcraft blog.

This initial post will be updated periodically throughout the Shadowlands test. Please check back here for information about further updates to this class as they are made.

Thank you for your testing and feedback!

21 Likes

After playing the alpha, there are a few things we’d like to discuss.

  • Mind Blast Cooldown issue
  • Void Bolt castable while channeling Mind Flay
  • Power Infusion for Shadow Priests
  • Surrender to Madness
  • SW:D baseline purpose vs. Talent
  • Voidform Problem
  • Lingering Insanity Baseline
  • Shadow Word: Void Baseline
  • Boon of the Ascended - Kyrian Covenant Talent
  • Shadow Cooldowns and Voidform Extension

Mind Blast Cooldown Issue

Shadow Priest rotation works very tightly with the GCD. The new Mind Blast Rank 2 for Shadow reduces its cooldown to not be divisible by the GCD. It should be 7.5s reduction instead of 7s, or it will impact Shadow’s rotation heavily and create unnecessary downtime. On Alpha, this plays out to .5s of downtime when you have cast 5 GCDs worth of spells (each GCD is 1.5s) since the cooldown of Mind Blast is now 8s, but is 7.5 in BFA. (5 * 1.5 = 7.5).

Void Bolt castable while channeling Mind Flay

The Void Bolt Rank 2 Passive creates two major issues with its current implementation.

1: Void Bolt in both Legion and BfA functioned as a global where Shadow is free to move without impacting its rotation. Without major movement abilities or an impactful cooldown window, Shadow needs this time to effectively handle mechanics or move in combat. With Void Bolt Rank 2, this is lost as you will always ideally want to be channeling Mind Flay when you cast it.

2: With this passive, we no longer need to cancel Mind Flay mid cast to cast Void Bolt on cooldown. However, we now need to cancel Mind Flay halfway with another Mind Flay in order to set up casting Void Bolt. This is less intuitive for newer players and still leads to Mind Flay often being cut short in the rotation.

While the second issue can be fixed by moving Void Bolt off the GCD during Mind Flay (Similar to Mage’s Fire Blast), the first issue remains. Shadow relies on the movement flexibility of Void Bolt to maintain Voidform in any situation that is not standing completely still, which this passive turns into something we ideally wouldn’t want to do.

Power Infusion for Shadow Priests

While Power Infusion was once a powerful weapon for Shadow, now, it feels like Shadowfiend 2.0, where it fills a place that should have a strong cooldown but it is ultimately weak, as Voidform already provides the same, sometimes even more haste during the rotation.

Another issue for Power Infusion is the fact that it can be targeted on allies. That shouldn’t be the case for a 2m cooldown ability without providing any benefit for a DPS spec. This creates a potentially toxic environment for Shadow Priests, in group content, where we’re forced to use our major cooldown to benefit another class that can make better use of it.

Voidform Problem

Currently, there is no big incentive to stay in Voidform longer or generate stacks. In BfA this incentive was provided by Chorus of Insanity but now we have nothing but stacking haste and access to Void Bolt. If Voidform is going to stay, it needs to feel impactful rather than something we do simply to avoid the alternative.

Surrender to Madness

First, and likely a bug, the Surrender to Madness buff on the player is removed when the debuffed target dies. This creates a lot of risk for not enough reward.

In general, Surrender to Madness simply is not impactful enough and is frankly, just boring. This argument mostly circles back to the “Voidform Problem” mentioned previously but without a compelling reason to stay in Voidform longer this talent doesn’t provide much benefit.

SW:D baseline purpose vs. Talent

Right now SW:D feels very out of place. It doesn’t generate Insanity and does so little damage that we have few reasons to ever use it without the talent. The lack of Insanity generation makes it feel out of place in our toolkit and for an ability that has been traditionally categorized as an execute ability, the lack of value when hitting low health targets (without killing them) makes it even less clear when or how SW:D is supposed to be used.

Shadow Word: Void Baseline

With the cooldown problem mentioned previously to Mind Blast, the idea has again resurfaced of the need for extra charge of Mind Blast given by Shadow Word: Void to become baseline in our kit. As it stands now the other talent options are never considered because purely from a rotational standpoint Shadow Word: Void is the less punishing and much more forgiving option. Having Mind Blast available in between our Void Bolts is crucial to maintaining a comfortable flow in the spec and playing without the second charge feels like you’re losing something when you delay Mind Blast because you’re in the middle of a Mind Flay channel or Void Bolt cast. Making it have 2 charges baseline would give room to experiment with new ideas rather than causing us to lose an entire row of talent choices and would also make the rotation more beginner-friendly.

Lingering Insanity Baseline

Similar to the Shadow Word: Void, Lingering Insanity suffers from the same issues. The quality of life gained from the talent is so high that it is unlikely that any other option in the row will ever surpass it without being extremely powerful. Having all the haste from Voidform vanish when you leave feels terrible rotationally.

Boon of the Ascended - Kyrian Covenant Talent

Right now Boon of the Ascended is really buggy, with Ascended Nova not being able to be used at all. However, the biggest issue is that the ability has no interaction with Shadow’s kit. Using it effectively halts Voidform cycles for 10s since the new abilities don’t generate any Insanity. Ascendant Blast, an ability with a cooldown, replacing Mind Flay for the duration is also incredibly jarring, essentially denying Shadow any filler spell if they cannot be in melee range of the target.

Shadow Cooldowns and Voidform Extension

Every cooldown Shadow has access to, outside of the new Covenant abilities, serves a primary purpose of extending voidform, either directly by insanity generation or indirectly through haste. While Voidform needs to feel impactful for players to care, delaying Shadow’s peak by extending Voidform further creates rigid cooldown timings and leaves the spec struggling to deal damage on demand. To fix this, Shadow’s cooldown options need more variety in what they are trying to achieve and how they interact with Voidform itself, subverting or enhancing it, instead of just making it longer.

430 Likes

I’m honestly super worried about Power Infusion in raids. 25% haste for 20 seconds that can be casted on allies, while sounds good, can also be horrible for balance. In a world where class stacking is a thing, imagine if class stacking priests were to rotate power infusion onto a single dps. That dps player will have bloodlust(or 25% haste, not 30 like bloodlust) for the entirety of the fight. It’s only a 2 minute cooldown. I think just being able to cast it on yourself would be more than fine. Opening up the ability to be casted on others can potentially be a bad thing.

77 Likes

I know it’s early but this is my perspective from a HOLY priest.

First- I LOVE having shadow spells back, I feel like questing wasn’t a chore and I was able to quest solo and have more than 3 damage spells. So thank you for that.

Second- Why mind soothe? Why did we need to get that spell back? I feel like that spell is literally just going to sit in the spell book and never get used. I would much rather see a spell like LIGHTWELL returned for holy.

Speaking of Holy Priests… We didn’t learn anything new, except ANOTHER passive spell that is a talent choice to buff our AOE healing. I didn’t feel like my character was getting strong after each level (up to 53), she kind of felt like I was leveling in a legion 3.0 (BFA was legion 2.0). I would like to see Holy learn some new spells that aren’t all passive.

Also, for those in the back; PLEASE bring back Lightwell!

98 Likes

I couldn’t agree more. I started my SP today and was shocked by SWD. It did less damage than a tick of SWP. I won’t use it just to use it and keep an eye on its CD if it’s not going to do anything.
I was so excited to hear it was baseline and anticipated something along the lines of warrior’s execute.

So well said, I just don’t see why I would really ever use this…

64 Likes

I’ve noticed this on many specs. Some abilities just fill shoved in without respect to the rest of the toolkit. Kill shot for survival, searing totem for enhancement, SWD for disc/shadow. There should be at least a ‘passive’ component that modifies the base ability to do something for the spec it’s given. Make it so all priest get shadow word: death but if it successfully kills the target their atonement is amplified for 6 seconds by some % but for shadow it gives them more insanity if it kills the target versus some if it doesn’t, searing totem just doesn’t feel like it justifies the GCD to drop it while you have all the other abilities to press, but what if it empowered lava lash while it was down, etc.

25 Likes

I don’t know if it’s a bug and I might be a minority, but I like having Mind Sear as Disci…

9 Likes

I got into the Alpha, so I thought I should put my thoughts on Shadow Priests. Anshlun pretty much nailed it, but I thought I would put my own thoughts or reiterate what he said.

Voidform

Anshlun pretty much pointed out all the issues with Voidform. There is really no incentive to increase our time in Voidform. In BFA, we had Chorus of Insanity. In Legion, we had Mass Hysteria. The only reason to increase our time in Voidform is Lingering Insanity, which makes it even more mandatory talent than it already is.

Shadow Word: Death

I’m not sure how the current iteration in Alpha is supposed to work. It does generate 15 insanity, but doesn’t say so on the tooltip, so I’m hoping that the tooltip is just missing that information. Shadow Word: Void hits harder and generates the same amount of insanity and is on a much shorter cooldown. If it is for when we have to move, I can just spam Shadow Word: Pain while moving and generate more insanity and do more damage in the 13 sec cooldown Shadow Word: Death has. Shadow Word: Death has been an execute ability for most of its life. As an execute ability, it changed our rotation when a boss was in execute range and most of all, it felt impactful. (I know how warriors feel in execute range)

No Real Cooldown

Shadow priests have no impactful cooldown. Shadowfiend? Vampiric Embrace? Shadowfiend has become something we press on CD and tickles the boss at most. Vampiric Embrace only heals one person and it isn’t even a smart heal, so it can heal a person that’s at 90% instead of someone who is almost dead. Back in WoD, Vampiric Embrace healed all allies. Although it might not have been as good as a real healing cooldown, it felt impactful and was great as a supplemental healing cooldown. Vampiric Embrace should be reverted back to healing all allies or maybe 5 allies and be a smart heal. (5 seems to be the magic number now). Mages and Shaman have lust. Warlocks have a battle rez. Warriors have Rallying Cry. Power Infusion seems like it’s going to be a new cooldown, but it seems like Shadow Priests are just going to be a haste battery to literally any other class that prioritize haste.

Kyrian Covenant Ability

The spell literally has no interaction with any of Shadow’s kit. The new spells don’t generate insanity and the one spell that works in Alpha, Ascended Blast, changes Mind Flay, a channeled spell that generates insanity, to an instant cast spell with a 3 sec cooldown that generates no insanity. It makes our rotation very awkward. It either delays getting into Voidform or shortens Voidform and either way, we don’t get the maximum amount of stacks of Boon of the Ascended. As of right now, I don’t see any Shadow Priest choosing Kyrians based off their Covenant ability. The other Covenant abilities don’t seem to affect us as negatively. The Venthyr and Night Fae even generate insanity based off the data mined abilities.

90 Likes

I wanted to leave some PvP feedback for Holy Priest.

Greater Heal
Please change this talent to be something else. Having played Gheal in 3’s and 2’s all season 1 and 2 of Bfa (1800’s 3’s, 2100 2’s) it’s a serious gimick and turns the spec into a one button class. Our throughput is so poor you basically don’t need to press any other heal button because Gheal is the only one that matters. Every game I played Gheal was minimum 65% of my overall healing.

Healing is more fun when your heals come from multiple sources and ways.

Some thoughts and suggestions for a change:

  1. Gheal - After casting heal, your next flash heal heals for 50% of the amount healed by heal. If we include mastery ticks in that 50% this allows some play decisions for your character.
    a. you spec heavy critical which gives a bigger up front heal and a faster 50% to the flash heal ( you don’t need to wait for master ticks to get a bigger benefit).
    b. You spec heavy mastery and wait for the master ticks to happen from the heal to get a bigger overall flash heal on next cast.

  2. Heal causes the target to have increased movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds, while buffed movement impairing effects are ignored.
    This moves the talent away from just more heals (which is common amongst other talents of other healers) to a more utility type talent. It also potentially helps Holy Priests extreme lack of mobility and would pair well with other classes that suffer from mobility issues as well.

  3. Heal causes your next flash heal to trigger it’s mastery up front. What i mean by this is if you cast Heal, your next flash heal heals for it’s heal amount plus the mastery ticks in one go resulting in a bigger flash heal.

Prayer of Mending
I love that PoM is back to instant cast baseline, but the PvP talent hasn’t been touched. Even the wording still says makes PoM instant and grants 10yds.

Honestly this spells baseline yardage should be 30yds to begin with, but at the minimum can we change this talent to be useful (adding 10yds is kinda a dead talent).

Some suggestions:

  1. PoM removes one negative effect from it’s target on heal, increase PoM’s cooldown by 5 seconds.

This turns PoM into a heal and a CC cleanser or dot cleanser and being that Holy Priest is supposed to be about AoE healing and in PvP the theme seems to be anti CC, this fits really nicely in that design.

  1. PoM Increases movement speed of the target healed by x%. Similar idea to Gheal above trying to solve for Priests lack of mobility or a team mates lack of mobility.

I love that Priest as a whole got our shadow core spells back so we have more to actually do, but Holy Priest is by far the worst PvP healer in the game with zero changes to it’s core in the alpha.

Please consider making some kind of a change so the class isn’t unplayable this coming expansion.

42 Likes

Anyone having rouble doing the quest Newfound Power. I cannot get it to acknowledge my using the Boon of Ascended ablility… I have tried several times. and it won’t let me use ascended Nova at all…So i can never complete the quest/

2 Likes

Adding some more of my thoughts.

Borrowed Power

I know the term “borrowed power” is a buzz word, but I think it fits for Shadow Priest’s current situation. For the past two expansions, Shadow Priests have been so reliant on effects from gearing (Chorus of Insanity and Mass Hysteria) that when it comes time for the new expansion, it feels so bad to play until we are geared again. As stated before, currently there is no real incentive to be in Voidform. We haven’t seen how legendaries affect any of our abilities/rotation yet, but it would basically be the issue of borrowed power again. Once the expansion is over, I’m assuming that legendaries won’t carry over to the next expansion. Classes should feel good to play at a base level and shouldn’t be so dependent on bandaid fixes effects from gear.

Edit:
I’m curious on Blizzard’s class philosophy around Shadow Priests. Where do Shadow Priests fit in? What do you believe their strengths and weakness should be in?

78 Likes

Hey Devs and Priests!

Here’s my healer Thoughts so far,

Holy:

  1. Lack of Growth - Holy has yet to truly grow from the strong foundation it received in Legion. BFA gave Holy HW:Salv which is a fun ability but lacks any particularly interesting gameplay alongside it. Furthermore, it solidifies the spec as a master 30man raid healer but not much else.

  2. Passive Talents - Holy has a great foundation to build upon, but the talents often squander this. None of the talents really change or grow how the spec plays, and further reinforces the same basics the spec has stuck to since Legion but without the fun artifact interactions (timing PoM just before a Hymn cast to further min max the free bounces for ex.). Where are changes to improve or develop an Enduring Renewal 5 man build (or is that a dead talent which could be replaced)? Where are adjustments to make Apotheosis a more powerful 5 man talent? When the devs got tired of HPriest spamming Binding Heal they just crushed it into dust moving the spec to spam Prayer of Healing instead of Binding what is to come of that ability?

  3. True Utility - Holy has tremendous potential but it constantly follows the same pattern of being a solid Mythic healer choice early on in expansions due to its strong throughput and mana returns. Later in the expac as mana becomes more plentiful and healer power increase, the spec gets vastly overshadowed by Discipline’s passive damage, burst healing and damage reduction. Eternal Palace was particularly problematic of this issue.

Discipline:

  1. Polarizing Potential - Discipline has been a spec for quite awhile now that has repeatedly seen very polarizing results across game modes. It is a constant lock in Mythic raiding but has some of the widest vulnerabilities of any of the Mythic+ healers. Not all healer should be the best at everything, that is absolutely fair, but the barometer for “fair balance” being the minimum weekly requirement of a +10 or 15 is outdated, especially for a cornerstone system in WoW these days like Mythic+ and for the new incoming system of the Torghast Tower.

  2. Talent Doldrums - Discipline, like Holy, is in an incredibly disappointing position with talents. For Discipline, their final tier (50) is an absolute nightmare. Light’s Caress is such an uninteresting talent and brings nothing new to Discipline’s table. Sharing a row with Evangelism and Luminous makes it incredibly frustrating to not have a talent that feels like an upgrade or improvement when you step into a 5 man environment like Torghast or Mythic+.

  3. Potential Improvements - So long as Penance retains a similar power level in BfA, Castigation and Contrition will both look to be poor options in a PvE environment. Both of these could be ripe for edits or changes to make them more favorable options for low group level content. Sins of the Many’s experiment to increase Atonement healing in content where there are few party members has largely been ineffectual and does not do enough to improve Discipline’s throughput in 5 mans by a noticeable margin. Shadow Covenant is a good start to assuaging these issues. Having a cost to a benefit fits RIGHT in where Discipline stands fantasy-wise: a healer caught between two powerful forces that is struggling to find balance. Following this sort of idea when it comes to those other talents could make for more interesting and challenging talents to utilize that could reward more skilled gameplay.

Side note: Torghast in particular is quite relevant in this conversation since there have already been plans announced for the Tower to be a continually supported system throughout Shadowlands where players will be increasingly looking for what each healer can bring to the table.

Thanks for your time,

Jak

117 Likes

Shadow … please just remove current Voidform.

I wanted to start off with something bold because the voidform experiment has failed and has never worked since the beginning of Legion.

Legion
It was grossly overtuned in the beginning and when you finally found a middle ground to make it work new players did absolutely TERRIBLE damage till they got enough haste (which was incredibly high), while pro players did godlike amounts of damage. Out of Voidform your did less than tank damage, 1-30 stacks you beat tanks and were finally gaining but 30+ mattered so much to your overall damage. If you got stunned or the mobs died your next Voidform would be pathetic and your DPS plummeted. I think the worst part about Legion Voidform was doing anything but raiding.

The only time voidform worked was raid bosses especially with 1 extra add. World content, Mythic+ (especially mid to low keys), and trash mobs Shadowpriest felt the worst because of the severe ramp.

Battle for Azeroth
I’m guessing you were going for a more Beastial Wrath Beastmaster Shadowpriest spec? The problem is BM hunter’s control whenever they want to Beastial Wrath, while you need to ramp in order to Voidform. Every other pull in Mythic+ shadow did okay damage, but when you lost Voidform as the pack died when you reached the next pack of mobs you felt like your group was carrying you. If the trash was about to die by the time you got enough insanity you saved your Voidform for the next pull while everyone else just did their normal damage EACH pull.

I loved playing Shadow in the past, loved Shadow orbs (although Clarity of Will I’m glad is gone), Dark Angel, Dark Halo, good times. However once Voidform was added everything has gone downhill. Voidform works in 1 environment which is raiding (mobs that live several minutes in order to ramp up and back down and back up etc), but everywhere else it does not work. Voidform has too much ramp and the up and down nature feels terrible when your on a trash pull when your at the down part …

Borrowed Power

This is really the only thing that has saved shadowpriest. In BFA without Chorus of Insanity shadow would be beyond terrible and it shows.

In Legion without Hysteria shadow fell apart and it showed in early BFA till we got Chorus of Insanity.

Talents
Shadow has very little choice in talents and it feels even moreso in SL. Just go on the alpha and try without these talents and watch how unfun and horrible it feels.

Without Shadow Word: Void everything slows down and feels horrible play and twice as hard to stay and go back into void form, also feels horrible to miss a Mindblast.

Without Lingering Insanity the moment you leave void form you feel like a turd and everything slows down and takes forever to get back into void form. Also without Lingering Insanity there is no reward to Voidform.

Without Legacy of the Void is probably the worst feeling ever. The game goes to a screeching halt and so does your damage. Why does voidform take so long to enter? Why does it always require so much insanity to enter it?

These 3 talents NEED to be baseline if you want to keep the basic voidform.

My Big Brain Idea, if you choose to keep Voidform

Bring back Shadow Orbs, was simple but was great especially with Devouring Plague synergy with Mindflay, it gave us a single target DPS option which shadow DESPERATELY needs since you keep nerfing it’s multi target without improving it’s single.

Instead of Voidform being baseline, make Voidform a talent replacing Legacy of the Void. Make it a 1 minute CD that doesn’t increase our damage but instead while in Voidform it gives us Hysteria (1% crit/haste per second in void form) and than Lingering Insanity after we leave it. This will reward good players with proper Voidform usage at the correct times. This allows us to pop Voidform when we want to, not having to deal with the stupid up and downs, not having to deal with the large ramp just to get into the large ramp, and rewards long voidforms.

Surrender to Madness can also be another version of Voidform that is much stronger (because it lasts longer, and you can move while casting) but with a longer CD. Could give double the Hysteria stacks. The risk is that you get it half as often as the other voidform.

The last one can be something simple like Dark Angel that is just a simple CD that doesn’t involve Voidform crazyness.

Conclusion.
Please remove the current generating insanity to just get into void form, or remove voidform all together. The current version of voidform does not work in most of WoW.

It does not work for M+ (especially lower keys) since every other pull you either are saving Voidform or just about to enter it, half the pulls your just generating resources to enter it. And when you do enter it, most of the time the trash is already at half health and you barely get to utilise Voidform and then the next pack you have to start all over again with no stacks of Chorus.

It does not work in world content because nothing lives long enough for a ramp

It does not work on several bosses because there is downtime (Wrathion for example by the time we start our ramping cycle he teleports awhile, losing everything we worked to gain and having to start all over again …)

Just remove it, keep it simple, make it a talent if you want to keep it like Beastial Wrath on a short CD we click to enter, go ham for a bit, then go back to being what shadowpriests were before this Voidform nonsense

225 Likes

This is when Shadow was my favorite! I miss the orbs and Devouring Plague.

I have never really enjoyed voidform. I like you idea of making it a talent if you really want to get that one time burst and then a 2 min CD.

135 Likes

Every shadow priest main I have talked to wants shadow orbs back soooo bad and I am not sure why they don’t make voidform a 3 minute cool down. I would really like shadow orbs to come back too :confused: one can only hope.

111 Likes

There has been good feedback here thus far so I won’t spend the time going into extreme detail regarding my thoughts on the class. A couple of things I wanted to share regarding discipline specifically.

I like the update to Shadow Covenant as an interesting interaction between our abilities and doing some bursty atonement healing. I do find it clunky that we don’t have very many shadow spells to cast during that 7 second window.

  • Seems weird to cast shadow word: death just because it does extra damage and it would be risky to cast if you are low health yourself
  • Mind blast is good
  • If talented into Purge the Wicked then shadow word: pain doesn’t count
  • Schism would count but only if talented
  • Lastly for maximum benefit we would have to wait for a Power of the Dark Side proc which may not line up nicely with incoming damage.

I think either reducing the damage is causes and allow it to benefit from all single target non-holy spells or Shadow Covenant alters the schools of our discipline spells to shadow to benefit from the buff.

Lastly, one of my issues with my disc priest in BfA is not having access to a reliably good heal to top off somebody when they are low health. Spamming shadowmend at least to me is not a fun way to heal somebody. I think getting Heal added back into the toolkit (or a talent somewhere) with an interaction similar to the new Nourish talent for Restoration druids where Heal gains double or triple benefit from our mastery would go a long way in helping discipline “catchup” when trying to top off a low health player.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to player feedback.

14 Likes

Mind Blast, Solace and Shadow Word Death (if it eventually has atonement scaling in some form) do not really work with 15 second cds.

With no haste, you have to sit on these spells for cooldowns like Power Word: Radiance and Schism in order to justify the mana cost/time for these spells. It feels really strange to me that you would need a lot of haste to be able to press these spells on cd. Seems like this will especially punish lesser experienced disc priests.

Random talent feedback:

Power Word: Solace seems extremely underpowered. Not sure why you would spend a talent point on a spell that does barely more damage than smite.

Shadow Covenant is extremely bugged. The healing absorb is still present and you are able to cast holy spells during the buff. Being able to click off the buff seems like an oversight, as you’re effectively dealing with no downsides with Shadow Covenant, if you can click the buff off.

Light’s Caress does not benefit from Mastery or scale off the hidden 40% hps aura. Intended? It’s also a bit strange that disc priest has 2 talents on the same row which interact with Barrier. Perhaps replace one with a talent that interacts with low number of atonements. Pulling Trinity from PvP talent tree seems like a good idea.

On a positive note, Disc priest rotation is really engaging now for solo content. I legitimately had so many options and different spells I could cast in Torghast and that was really engaging to me.

16 Likes

I know it’s been said to death on this thread already but I really feel like Spriest needs a few more things added to its kit.

I am fine with it being a “slow burn” kinda spec - there has to be strengths and weaknesses to specs and if you need burst you can take stuff like DA, Scrash, DV etc.

However right now voidform feels like crap. It’s super slow and sluggish and the spec shouldn’t need 1000’s of points of haste to function properly. LI needs to be baseline along with Shadow Word:Void - they’re so integral to the spec I can’t really find a situation where you wouldn’t take them. VF may need something like MH from Legion or CoI from BFA to prop it up because right now the 1% haste feels meh.

I don’t like the new SW:Death - having to watch your health when you can use it isn’t a fun mechanic to me when you already have to worry about boss mechanics, the rest of your rotation etc. I think the current BFA implementation of it is fine.

I actually like the idea of the new S2M but it shouldn’t run out when you kill your target. If you kill the target 1s into S2M you should keep the buff for the remaining 24 secs - it becomes to convoluted trying to calculate: 1) Mob dying before S2M runs out 2) Mob dying late into S2M so you get maximum benefit 3) Being at a peak level of voidform so you can benefit from it even more

No idea what the tuning of it is like but I like the idea of it. Though tbh I loved the initial EN iteration of S2M when it lasted 2mins - that was the most fun I’ve ever had on a class (even if it was hilariously overtuned).

20 Likes

Hey guys, I don’t main shadow priest but I thought I’d throw my 2c in because I have enjoyed playing the class as an alt in previous expansions. (this will just be a rambly mess)

Currently I feel damage is too weak for your active abilities such as mind flay and mind blast. Mind blast should be taking solid chunks out of a regular mobs HP, currently I can hardly ever feel when I use it.

Cooldowns are a little weird. I think Vampiric Embrace should be an active buff or debuff. It didn’t feel great taking all this damage and having to stop and shadow mend 4-5 times before running OOM, I think the constant trickle of self healing through the old vampiric embrace gave the class a very cool and unique way to sustain themselves. It was also cool to see it healing other group members for a respectable amount, something the current version also fails at because its limited to 1 nearby person. Boring.

Void eruption has a really amazing animation, especially with a lot of targets, but those situations are rare and it’s difficult to actually make use of it because of the slow cast time and insanity requirement. Speaking single target, the damage is quite mediocre and hardly feels worth pressing for the amount of anxiety it gives me to keep insanity up. Overall its not actually a fun button to press outside of that one super rare scenario where you got 30 little dudes to AoE that arent about to kill you before you can cast it. Either change this ability to significantly buff your damage/haste or just change it to be an AOE cooldown because it really feels clunky in its current form.

Shadowfiend - what was once a great cooldown to restore your mana pool back when you had to worry about mana…is now just a funny wiggly boi. seriously, what does he even do? I hardly notice it.

Mobility can be a slight issue at times, usually in dungeons when mobs are moving like crazy or theres stuff to dodge. Overall, not terrible. I just wish instead of the pw:s talent we had something like a teleport to a friendly players “shadow” behind them. Or if you’re stubborn and decide to keep void eruption as is, give it a decent movement speed buff since we’re already all floaty :stuck_out_tongue:

If I think of more things later I’ll edit them in, but as for now that’s all I got. Overall, it feels meh. Not great, not bad, it just needs some cool flavor mechanics back and it needs to have abilities feel more impactful.

39 Likes