Feedback: Pet Battles

The Pet Battle system is being iterated on in Midnight, and changes will continue to come with future Alpha builds.

In the first builds of the Midnight Alpha, we have several goals:

  • For players who love collecting pets, there should be significant numbers of pets to collect.
  • For players who love to do pet battle combat, that will be available.
    • As time has passed, we’ve seen fewer and fewer players enjoying pet battle combat, so this is an area we want to iterate on.
  • There will be some new pets in Midnight that are capable of battling.
  • All parts of the pet battle system that were implemented in previous expansions should continue to operate as they have before.

We’re experimenting with some alternate methods to obtain pets in Midnight, and we expect to iterate on that, based on your feedback. Please let us know whether you’re an experienced pet battler or engaging with the system for the first time when you leave feedback.


Look in this thread and in the Midnight Alpha Development Notes for adjustments and bugfixes made throughout the testing period.

Please note that off-topic or inappropriate posts will be strictly removed.

Thank you!

27 Likes

I have 10k views on my video about this, and once you omit people blaming Nintendo, the majority of them are people disappointed to see this system leave the game moving forward.

Adding achievements to old content without even updating the old content hardly counts, though I’m sure the tamers with level 2 pets will be a real challenge for the required level 25 team. Overall, I’m disappointed this didn’t even warrant a single line in the OG patch notes, but that’s been par for the course with pet battles.

I have given direct feedback to someone on one of the teams for a while, focusing on improving move sets for pets and bugs. To that person, and the people they passed the feedback to who listened and gave us some pretty cool, thematic move sets for pets in TWW, you have my deepest appreciation. I was hoping that my feedback would be a small step toward more suggestions and feedback for general content, but clearly that’s not the case.

That said, people in the community have made plenty of suggestions over the years on ways to improve the system, people like me with thousands of hours in it, but no one listens. No one makes improvements. They make a ‘change’ like the weather update, and now people are even more miserable in PBPvP as a result. We have bugs dating back years at this point that no one will address.

So why should now be any different? Why should I waste more of my time giving you feedback here? Actions speak louder than words, and so far this comes across as performative. We’ve been ignored for so long, the thought of canceling my sub doesn’t even make me sad anymore.

However, if you (Blizzard) are actually willing to listen, I am more than willing to come to the table and have a discussion on pet battles. Until I see some genuine intent, I’ll pass on wasting any more of my time.

~ DragonsAfterDark

ETA: It won’t let me add a new post, so this is getting added here.

Now that I’ve had a chance to cool down a bit, and because I love pet battling more than I’m annoyed at Blizzard for this, I’ll give you three quick suggestions you could (probably) implement right now to help get people into pet battles more.

  1. Let people level on whatever tamers they want. Yes, even the 24/7 tamers in BfA and onward, and no, don’t remove character xp from them or remove pet level scaling, either.

I can’t tell you how obnoxious it is to tell people they need to go to WoD and set up their garrison and wait every 15 days for a fight, or hope a Legion tamer is up for the day, if they want to level more than a couple pets a day because their only other option is charms. What other system makes you do old content to power up (in this case level) things from a current expansion? Everything except wild pets comes at level 1 when you learn it, and with thousands of pets now waiting for charms to level them all is tedious.

You want to see more engagement in the system? This is going to go a long way toward that.

On that note, thank you to whoever fixed Durian being repeatable–you’re a saint.

  1. Remove the requirement of getting a pet to 25 before you can uncage a level 25 pet on the AH.

We have lots of strategy creators that focus on making leveling strategies with cageable pets, but a big barrier to that is the above requirement. The goal right now is to get people to engage with the system. The desire to learn and have fun with it usually comes after that. Will they just breeze through fights at first? Sure, but again, thousands of pets to level, and it’s not like doing this will create and unfair advantage in Mythics. Side/downtime content is meant to be fun and relaxing. It shouldn’t be a punishment to want to play.

  1. Have an option to get rid of ability animations, and/or make them shorter.

This is the one I’m not sure is possible to do right now, like the other two, since I have no idea what kind of work would need to go into making a toggle in the options. But one of the biggest QoL changes people reference is how long some of the animations take.

I’m not the type of person to turn them off. I love seeing my Primal Stormling wreck a Beast pet with Call Lighting, or watching enemies like the Malfunctioning Matrix self-delete on my Tinytron’s elemental shields. That said, I can see how sitting through Blistering Cold’s animations can get overly tedious.

In closing, I obviously have plenty of suggestions for pets, content, and QoL, like a better UI, but the three things above are something that could be done quickly. Maybe even today.

As a side note, when you do ultimately make whatever changes you’re going to make, it would be appreciated if we’d get at least a sentence in the patch notes. I’d need several hands to count the number of times we just happened to discover a change or (rarely) a fix, because it was never put in.

Until some kind of showing of good faith happens, this’ll be it for me. Ta-ra.

~ DragonsAfterDark

112 Likes

Hi everyone! Hols here, from AlterTime EU, and I’m a player who absolutely loves pet battles.

First of all, it’s really sad to read this, although with the first rounds of testing, we kind of saw it coming. The pet battle system has been “abandoned” for quite a while now, and we haven’t had a truly exciting challenge since the Timeless Isle days. It’s perfectly understandable that players don’t really care about pet battles anymore — it’s often easier to just farm some gold and buy a caged pet from the Auction House than to go through a tedious dungeon (which doesn’t even come close to the kind of challenge the Timeless Isle once offered).

Here are two ideas that we’ve often brought up in many of the interviews we’ve had with the dev team:

1. Pets should be able to level up or upgrade to epic quality, as was originally planned for Legion (and even appeared during the beta). This could be done in a controlled way through some weekly quests, so players wouldn’t be forced to farm 1,700 stones just to upgrade their pets to epic. Gradually, through these quests, they could earn it over time.

Why do this? Because by improving the pets, you would make the old pet battle content easier, giving newer players a reason to get into it and farm that content. Plus, it opens the door for new, higher-difficulty challenges in the current expansion — with new battles that encourage the use of different pets, not always the same ones, and with meaningful rewards that feel worthwhile.

Additionally, less experienced players could find a good way to earn gold this way, since by farming the easier old content, they’d get access to pets sold by vendors for Pet Battle currency or dungeon challenge rewards that they can buy and sell.

2. If we want more players to do pet battles (or at least try them), we need to give them a practical function. Pets, like in other similar games, could be trained through a series of daily quests (for example, over fifteen days) to train a specific pet that helps you collect loot from enemies. If every 15 days you can train one battle pet to loot for you, and we currently have over 1,600 unique pets, that’s a questline system that would always keep us engaged, since it offers a clear and useful reward — even if only one or two pets can be used for looting. This would also let us alternate between our favorites over time.

Even though the pet battle system might not seem appealing to most players, these are just two small examples of what could be done with it (and there are many more ideas that have been discussed for a long time — not to mention Pet Battle PvP). It’s truly a shame to see it being “abandoned” like this and reduced to a purely collectible system. We’ve been saying for a while that the system has become too repetitive — always the same achievements, same activities, only adding new dungeons we already know, without bringing back those truly amazing challenges like the Timeless Isle.

I really hope that over time, Blizzard can breathe new life into pet battles so it doesn’t end up being a system that gets left behind sooner rather than later.

82 Likes

Would also like to voice my concerns over Pet Battles going forth starting with Midnight.

While I may not be as experienced in the battling aspect as a lot of the other pet battle enthusiasts, I have enjoyed collecting and leveling my pets over the years (as you can see from my collection).

I thoroughly enjoyed the Celestial Challenge on Timeless Isle and hope to start venturing into the dungeons soon as I can carve out the time.

I sincerely hope that this aspect of the game is continued to be given not only support, but fresh content going forward.

Thank you!


There has been a lot of feedback offered in the Pet Battles forum as of late. Here are the some of the most recent threads:

EDITED TO ADD NEW THREAD:

75 Likes

Hello,
Dezdee - Tichondrius. And I would consider myself a very experienced pet battler at this point.
I hope you forgive me for I have a few links and videos in my post, and I hope that’s okay, as I want to make sure this information gets across as fast as possible and there isn’t time for something as formal as a pitch deck or the like. You will need to remove a space after the "www. “and the space before the " .com” for the link to work.

Who am I to speak about battle pets and the pet battle system?
I started playing in Dragonflight, which makes me a fairly new player by most standards.
My whole story of how I discovered pet battles and why I enjoy them can be found in this video on my YouTube channel:

How Battle Pets in World of Warcraft Changed Gaming for Me
www. youtube .com/watch?v=LI_p5WWJNBI

Many have described that video as a “love letter” to the entire system.
If you take nothing else from my entire comment, please take the time to watch this video, as my story may be similar to others and encapsulate why Battles with pets are so loved.
Since the time of making that video, I ran that YouTube channel for a while, releasing weekly pet news videos. There is often enough information that comes out in a week regarding pets that a content creator can build an entire channel on it. Though after a while, I saw gradual cutbacks to the pet battles. The timeline from my research seems to follow as such.

  • Mop creates Pet battles, hundreds of features are added, and it becomes the new endgame for a large playerbase. People inside Blizzard’s own campus were reported to be running tournaments between staff. One report from the official infographic lists “3.6M Pet Battles” (whatever that actually means, lol)
  • WoD is reported to be dissolving less critical teams to make sure garrisons are able to launch on time. (many things promised to improve pet battles are not delivered [gear slots| level cap increase | Rarity increase | UI improvement | PvP win tracking | Stone redundancy clean-up | Team of 3 summoning | Further engame designs beyond tamers and celestial tournament] ) Most likely due to the team being dissolved and the workload being spread across other departments.
  • Legion - no more raiding with leashes achievements are released, pet battle dungeons are released.
  • BFA - Pet battle dungeons are discontinued, and new Tamers have their chat lines reduced significantly
  • Shadowlands - pet abilities no longer receive balancing passes (not even 1 single ability).
  • Dragonflight - Shiny pet charms are consolidated (not a loss, pretty good actually) MoP remix has no battle pets available for bronze. (Common community consensus is Blizzard feels there were no rare battle pets released in MoP)
  • TWW - significantly easier tamers, no wild pets on K’aresh (becomes the first major zone with no wild pets).
    At some point during that, I decided to gather all the ideas I could and pose a wishlist, which Wowhead was extremely kind enough to post:

State of Battle Pets - Community Feedback List
www. wowhead .com/news/state-of-battle-pets-in-dragonflight-community-feedback-list-334588

After that, I thought a great way to develop more visibility was to encourage community interaction. So, about a year ago I began working on something that, I think, drives some community interaction, the very reason you cite for this most recent change.
That’s when I created Pet Battle PvP Tournaments, which we have since branded to the Pet Masters’ League. In the PML, we run alongside each standard WoW season(currently in season 3). We offer participation prizes as enamel pins and a custom seasonal trophy for first place. See our season 2 EU finals stream:

www. youtube .com/watch?v=M3zwaalxZ5I

Example of the statistics we collect in a match:

World Finals match season 2 statistics
www. petmastersleague .com/tournaments/075e7708-cfa4-4b30-a033-4246520f605a/statistics?matchId=1a580245-bc0f-4433-89c2-fce79185d598

There is a lot more I could talk about regarding our highly competitive league with approximately 100 participants and a growth rate of about 15% each season, but let’s progress. So, to anyone who says the battle system isn’t complex or deep, I understand that they do not have a grasp on the pet battles’ dynamic nature.

With that said, I have seen the proposed stance and changes and would like to offer my thoughts.
The changes so far seen on the alpha, as reflected to its predecessor TWW:

  1. Somewhere around 80% of new pets do not have abilities/stats etc.
  2. New PvE content does not exist within Midnight zones.
  3. Pets with the same sprite often have the same moveset.
  4. Polished Pet charms have no place. (no new source, no new purchase options.
  5. Teams are omitted from the journal log when a player has a “vanity pet” selected.
  6. Family Familiar Achievements go backward to old zones without interaction in midnight zones.
  7. Wild pets cannot be acquired through battle. (this creates a lot of sub-changes)
  • Wild “caught” pets now sell for 1 copper.
  • Catching a new pet goes into a player’s bag as a learnable item.
  • Backline pets no longer exist.
  • variant (alternate sprites or color variations no longer exist)
  • Players always use the basic trap for capture, no matter which trap they have unlocked.
  • Pets can now be killed while the “capture” channel is being cast on them
  • “wild pets” still have color rarity while having no difference associated.

Responses:

  1. If you watched my first video then you understand why pets having abilities is an important feature. Though I will say that at 2k+ pets we do have a lot of clones out there. Which isn’t a bad thing when you consider stat allocation. Some can have the same moveset but different stats, and that allows them to be functionally different. I would not have discovered my entire passion for the system if it wasn’t for the wild pet battle in the Waking Shores I happened upon one day.
  2. Now with the changes in PvE Content there is less variety in world battles, less sources for players to level up their pets, less passive sources for upgrade/leveling stones, less source for polished pet charms, and finally without the addition of new tamer battles in midnight it makes it feel like battle pets are just some old gameplay mechanic and thus no longer part of the world.
  3. Onto pets with same moveset… that’s really boring tbh. It felt incredibly lazy in k’aresh when a player received a new lapbug and the color was different but the stats and moveset were the same. As a battle fan who sees battle pets as collecting a roster of units, why would I want the other colors with different names?
  4. Polished pet charms are the only Battle Pet Currency; it’s shocking to me that nobody realized/reported on it’s omission. While I agree that currency bloat always becomes a concern in digital markets, the polished pet charm having no counterpart or alternative in Midnight leaves it much harder for newer players to go back for PPC pets/toys.
  5. If your new and just collect some vanity, you’ll potentially never discover the battle mechanic, is this intentional? There is also a bug that happens occasionally, that when you toggle between a vanity “wild pet” and a battle pet, you’ll lose the team you have loaded and have to reload them every time. A lot of this seems like a dev oversight to me.
  6. In a vacuum, I love this. The Classic-WoD tamers never got standardized to match the achievements and play of the Legion+ tamers. It’s great to have an achievement for beating Julia Stevens outside of Stormwind who only has two level 17 pets with your team of 3 level 25 pets. But this hardly facilitates as replacement content to facing a team of 3 Pets at level 25.
  7. Players will get bag bloat possibly down the road and stop clicking on wild pets for fear of “already having that one” and then it rotting in their bag. How many times have you been in a raid group, or any group content for that matter and someone kills something that you can loot, but it’s out of the pathway that you’ve set for yourself? It could be a rare transmog that sells for hundreds of gold on the AH, but 5 feet off your path is too far to walk, so you don’t. Are these the players that will be lured in by the new catching mechanic? Backline and variants create repeat play, searching for something rare in a world of commons. Now, you can just use a /tar macro and get it in less than 4 seconds. This removes a sense of value and the thrill of the hunt. In a world where most games spend resources figuring out ways for players to spend more time in a game, this decision frees players from game time and possibly even subscriptions. Unlocking a new trap design is an existing achievement within pet battles. When you see a player use a high-tier trap, there is a sense of prestige. Why remove that? Lastly, the Color rarity system was implemented with pets having stats, when you upgrade a pet from green to blue, it’s stats go up. What on earth is the purpose of white, green or blue when there are no stats? Who is to say a collection of all white pets and no greens or blues isn’t the rare one? The color now means nothing.
    Suggestion for #7: If you must keep this catch mechanic due to sunken cost or resource allocation timelines, then I offer this suggestion. Being able to toggle between fast catch or battle. If a player fast catches a pet then it would be at level 1. If a player spends time to battle and catch, then the pet would be level 23(or the level appropriate). This system could also allow all old-world wild pets that you battle against to be level 25 as it would allow players to onboard to the system much more easily while keeping the retention of the more seasoned.
    Alternatively, it could make sense that wild pets might not know how to battle until you train them with an item or a process. Thus, unlocking their abilities and stats and allowing you to level them.

Tldr: I love the battle function of pets, I know a lot of other people do as well. I would hate to see this change happen in Midnight, in turn lowering the number of players interacting, then using that as a metric for discontinuing the system altogether in Last Titan. If you have the resources, please evaluate the loss that many players would feel upon some of these changes.

If you made it to the end of this post, I’ll buy you a drink at BlizzCon! You obviously have some stamina!

88 Likes

First off, I’d like to say that I appreciate the response and assurance that Pet Battles is not going away in the expansion! However, the current list of goals is so vague and many are still concerned about the future of Pet Battles.

Specifically, the Pet Battle community would like to know:

  1. Will there be NEW PVE Pet Battle content in Midnight? Before/after launch? Not including the new Family Battler achievements/challenges, which re-use existing/old content. Many are worried that Pet Battles is “going the way of archaeology” and being put in the ‘sunset feature’ category. So any hints of upcoming new Trainers or PVE battles would be reassuring. If there aren’t any, I’d prefer a clear statement on this. (can’t speak for everyone, but I’d appreciate the closure)
  2. Does “iteration” on Pet Battles mean the removal of the combat aspect of wild pet capturing? Or is there something else/new we will see in Midnight?
  3. Are there any other Pet Battle system updates or changes coming in Midnight? The wild pet capture change really caught everyone by surprise, and has put the community on edge. For future updates, a heads up or a line in the patch notes for significant system changes would be helpful.

Again, grateful for the dedicated Feedback thread on Midnight Pet Battles. I, and a lot of others, would still like more clarification on the above points. I’d welcome a more detailed outline of the plans for Pet Battles in Midnight (or a statement that there aren’t any plans for additional content, if that’s the case). I would very much appreciate transparency on this topic.


Some misc background on myself and my adventures with pets/Pet Battles in WoW:
I’ve been playing WoW and collecting pets since 2005. I witnessed the evolution of vanity pets to battle pets, and the introduction of Pet Battles in MoP. I ran a pet collecting blog (Perks n Peeves) for many years until WarcraftPets.com (a pet collecting fansite) picked me up in 2010. I’m still volunteering as Content Administrator for that site.

I’m a pet collector first and foremost, but I do enjoy PVE Pet Battling. I’ve been battling since day one of MoP, and have created a few of my own teams and strategies for encounters before, but I’m by no means an expert. I’d much rather leave the theorycrafting to more knowledgeable battlers than myself. In fact, I enjoy seeing all of the different ideas the Pet Battling community comes up with.

I’m not a Pet Battle PVPer since I don’t enjoy the pressure that activity brings (pressure placed on myself by me in competitive settings, that is). That being said, I do recognize that the Pet Battle PVP scene could use a lot of love and refresh.

Ultimately, the goals listed for Pet Battles will likely not make a huge impact in my gameplay (that I can tell so far). I will continue to collect, as usual. However, I find it extremely troubling that there’s even a rumor of Pet Battles being phased out. It is such an integrated part of pet collecting these days that phasing out battling would feel like an enormous loss. Battling and collecting having amazing synergy is what makes the Pet Battle system so special, in my opinion. Collecting more pets and leveling them up is akin to gaining power. Battling is then making use of that ‘power’, and to what end? To collect more pets! For even more power! To collect more! It’s wonderfully cyclical, and battling can work so well alongside collecting. So it would be a huge shame to see no new PVE Pet Battle content in Midnight. It would feel like losing a major portion of the overall pet system.

57 Likes

Re change: ‘Peaceful Pets’ filter in the journal

https://imgur.com/a/I5m8zDL

I’m not really sure who this is for? What was wrong with ‘Can’t Battle’? They can’t. This just comes off as more language trying to help pivot away from a BATTLE system. I’m almost to the point where I’d suggest just giving them their own tab… They are completely removed from the system, so why should they be a part of it?

28 Likes

:100: what Amayita said.

I don’t understand why “Peaceful Pet” is a necessary replacement for “Cannot Battle” or “Non-Combat Pet”? I’d even prefer “Companion Pet” over “Peaceful”, as that’s what non-combat pets are referred to when summoned. In-game it’s: “Nethaera’s Light, Quintessence’s Companion” and not “Nethaera’s Light, Quintessence’s Peaceful Pet

Is this new “Peaceful Pet” category only for the new non-combat wild pets found in Midnight?? Last I checked, it didn’t include all of the other non-combat pets, which makes it very confusing. Maybe that’s changed though, I haven’t been able to get onto Alpha in a while.

If anything, I’d suggest changing the “Pet Battle” filter option under Sources menu to “Wild Capture”, and then adding a Battle Pet and Companion Pet filter as one of the main filters, underneath Collected and Not Collected. Then we can choose when to filter all wild pets, or only wild pets that battle/don’t battle.

22 Likes

With Beta launching now, I believe it’s safe to assume the alpha state is how the beta will launch.
I am not a fan of the point click capture system. It removes gameplay without providing a better system, but instead a lesser one. A downgrade of interactivity rather than an upgrade.
I do not think of myself as a pet collector, even though I have 1800+, I think of myself as a team builder who likes having all options.
The sheer volume of outcry in the forums has to mean something? Almost 400 unique posters in the pet battle section of the forums under different topics related to these changes. Many say they will consider discontinuing their sub due to this change, myself included.

Want to lighten the workload? Less unique pets overall and reuse some old wild pets.
There are currently 2k+ unique pets in the journal. Adding 40+ each patch is an overload.
Why not 1 (Bird) that has 3 different colors? We have this with multiple pets. We already have this system. Just use it more. Same Model ID but a different visual ID. Sometimes you encounter the green “bird” and sometimes the visual id is different and the “bird” is red. In the journal the pet will have the same name and moves. Going outside of silvermoon you encounter hawkstriders, sure. But sometimes they could be different colors but the same pet. Not what has been happening lately where it’s 3 unique pets, with the same moves and models id, just different names and they each take up an additional slot in the collection. I’m sure creating multiple pets with abilities is an additional workload. So less unique pets, more variants. Also, it is not so far removed from conception that an “Unborn Valkyr”(for instance) could be present as a wild pet in Northrend and as well in (new Zone A). The wild pet spawn table for a new area does not have to be entirely newly created pets.

People seem to not be interested in the system? Okay, Do something worthwhile with it. Whomever was the designer that made the Storm pets encounter on the Forbidden reach could get more support and build a better system. (If they are still at the company) That was our first glimpse into what a multiplayer pet battle could look like and as per usual. We never saw it again. An innovative way to bring players together in a pet battle, and ultimately forgotten. There have been so few updates to the pet battle system that it’s actually hard to find meaningful improvements over time. So yeah. If you want the system to not feel old and clunky, Improve it. (Cutting it from production is not improving it) If you want to know why people have interacted less with the system, there is no better example than the Npc Gelatinous in Maldraxxus. An enemy battle fight, created in Shadowlands, but during the prepatch for Dragonflight, something broke and this Npc became level 1 when he was max level 25. No more strats needed just basic attack him with anything. Bug reports were filed, no response, no fix. This NPC still sits there at level 1 to this day.

Collection (Vanity pets) Very few people summon them regularly, mostly because their sprite is so small. If you want to know why people collect mounts more than pets it’s because they have a bigger sprite and people are forced to use them for increased speed. So therefor the mounts system is akin to player power. Why does a large sprite matter? I suggest looking up the Paul Ran Quote “If you can’t make it good, make it BIG. If you can’t make it big, make it RED!” Paul was a designer in the 1960 and a professor at yale, he knew that to catch people’s eye you simply had to make it better, then people would want it more and want to pay attention to it. Example: If I am in my raid group and we are progging and I mount up to get through a section, people will say “ooh ahh” if I mount a rare mount, not because of the rarity of mounts superceeding that of pets, but because they can see the mount. Alternatively, if I’m in the same group and I summon the rarest pet out there nobody will say a word, because they don’t notice it, they can’t see it among all the other visuals. If I really want to show off I have saaaay “Mini Tyreal” while progging Demensius, it would go something like this… I summon him before we pull - we use our reshii wraps and go to the first platform - I summon him again as the transition made him desummon - we move to phase two and are in the flying mode - I summon him again as the transition made him desummon - We land on the platform - I summon him again as his flight form (and all pets) can’t keep up with dragonriding so he demsummoned - we fight on the first platform - mount up and fly to platform 2 - summon him again as he can’t keep up with flying - repeat - you get the idea. All that work and nobody would notice he is out. Just me. No accolades from party members. So then, a vanity pet is good for what? Summoning in town and standing there still, because if you take flight, well there goes the pet. The Battle system is a key part of why a large population collects pets. Not all, though, as I know quite a few collect cute lil buddies for the +1 of it all. But if you kill further developments to the battle system, then you kill off a large portion of serious pet collectors.

I love that you finally added a quest to the main hub city, which teaches pet tracking! Amazing Idea to allow people to access the system of collecting and tracking pets in the content they are locked into for the next two years. I really wish there was some way to upgrade these (peaceful) pets to have abilities, though. Think about it like… Karate lessons for a child. I don’t take a child for those because they are a savage war beast of a human, I take them because it builds them and helps them grow. Can pet battles not be the same for our pets? A training, a character building activity. Most games in the monster battle genre do not see it as this vicious thing, but instead a bond that you form with your buddy that strengthens over time. So the point of “peaceful pets” frames the other pets as violent and just drives the point home further that someone there really doesn’t like battle pets.

Pet battle combat is a very well designed and unique system, but if you want to “iterate” on how the battles work. This is my small list of suggestions to improve the battle system.

  • Switch the system from true turn based to an active time battle system. (like Final Fantasy 6 or Pokemon Legends: Arceus)
    If you have 50 speed and I have 40 speed the turn order would go: you, me, you, me, you, me, you, me, you, you, me. Ocassionaly, the slower character also has two turns as well when they lap themselves.
  • Work on the UI - It’s been the siege of Orgrimmar borrowed UI for 12 years…. there are hundreds of ways the basic battle UI can be improved.
  • Camera angles. Often in many games of the genre the camera angle changes depending on who just used what move. My pet uses a move, the camera focuses on my pet and me, etc.

So my feedback is this in short: look at the Pet Battle Forums which are located in the “Gameplay” section, and read the hundreds of heartfelt cries over this change.
I agree that there needs to be a better onboarding method that remains the same in each new hub city. Collecting for most of us isn’t about just collecting. It’s about what we do with that collection and for some of us, the literal years it has to taken to level up that collection.
If these changes of sunsetting the battles system in midnight continue without acknowledgment of recent player feedback, you can count me out. I’ll take my time and spend it elsewhere.

21 Likes

Thanks for the response. Unfortunately, it was Blizzard’s only mention of pet battles during the whole time of Alpha, and the part for the biggest concern (a lack of NEW BATTLING content) was not helpful at all. “…pet battle content will be available…” is such a general phrase that it could even be about existing pet battles.

With almost nothing happening during Alpha, it feels like you’ve already passed most steps of iterating, and does it only sound weird to me when one of the first ideas to solve (?) a lack of interest in the battling part is to lower the number of new pets capable of battling drastically? Or is the iterating part really just about methods to obtain pets, and everything battling is on hold for now?

I apologize in advance if my wall of text is confusing, my sections make no sense, I make weird jumps, or my written thoughts end abruptly. At some point, I had to come to an end, even with thousands more thoughts in my head. :innocent:

Current state of TWW

  • 2 more pet additions planned for 11.2.7 for Winter Veil and Shadowlands Timewalking vendor (both can battle)
  • No new pet battle content since 11.1 was launched (no boss pet fights, no tamer fights, not even wild pet battles in the new zone K‘aresh)

Current state of Midnight (up to Alpha Build 64228)

  • 75 potential collectible pets
  • 57 of these 75 pets are flagged „Can’t Battle“ (since MoP we only had 39 „Can’t Battle“ pets overall in 13 years)
  • 18 of these 75 pets have six abilities assigned (8 of the 18 are unused pets from DF/TWW that already had a moveset)
  • There are no signs of new tamer/boss pets (with only 3 abilities) for Pet Battle WQs, or a Family Battler achievement in Midnight zones
  • 22 of these 75 pets we’d consider wild pets (21 of them required captures for the „Midnight Safari“ achievement) are categorized as „Peaceful Pets“, flagged „Can’t Battle“, and no longer list „Pet Battle“ in specific zones, but instead „Discovery“ in their source info
  • Neighborhood (Housing) & Trading Post activities require pet battles in old zones
  • 3 Family Battler achievements (players‘ max-level pets against very old tamers; many of them not even using max-level pets)
  • AFAICS, no changes to the 1-click-capture and its issues since we experienced it for the first time
  • Zero mentions of pet battles in the development notes („changes will continue to come with future Alpha builds“), with Alpha finished yesterday, we only got more pets added to the files, and a new filter for the Pet Journal

Less engagement in pet battles

I‘d really love to know on what time frame and observations this is based. Considering that the last pet battle content (incl. wild battles!) was added in 11.1 „Undermined“, and nothing but 1-2 Traveler’s Log activities every month required battling since then, it doesn‘t necessarily feel like the players decided to engage less with pet battles… we didn‘t get any „carrots“ so pet battling was just a personal decision to maintain our roster.

Prioritizing „Peaceful“ content

I don’t understand why a „lack of interaction“ with the battling part immediately leads to changes that‘ll have such a massive impact on the collecting+battling combo. Only adding abilities to a minority of the planned pets feels completely wrong when the goal is to make players engage more with the battling system. And even worse for newcomers and returning players, because everything we see about battling, right now, forces us into old content, which is not a thing we pay new expansions for.
When you see that people no longer enjoy driving a car when you slashed most of its tires, it feels so off when your first idea to change that is to remove the engine. It‘s very unlikely that this will have a positive effect when the lack of new pets with abilities alone lowers the need to battle (with barely any pets to level, and that‘s before we run into that whole lot of nothing regarding new battling content and the pet battle supplies that would come with it, which also throws everyone back into old content).

What felt good, what felt wrong (personal opinion on some examples)

What made players return to Pet Battle Dungeons? I would love to say the story, but we saw that in our first run, so probably the barriers to reach later fights and of course, the rewards. When pet battle dungeons worked with reward bags, people started to ignore the feature very quickly and instead bought the pets. When we got the dungeons with weekly currencies and the rewards on a vendor… players were more “tempted” to return and battle for a foreseeable number of weeks. The balance between available currency, time investment, and pets available was fine.

  • Celestial Tournament: Currency with a vendor, encounters changing weekly, back then, only a small roster with a chance to fail with Healing between fights „disabled“. 10 weeks to get the currency for all 4 pets, then probably ignored… until we got the Elekk achievement, insta-revived „dead“ content.
  • Emerald Dream: Two ways to acquire one set of pets (Seedbloom vendor and Emerald Bounty loot), Dream Infusions for another set of pets. Felt fine.
  • Whelp Daycare: When done with the storyline, kinda soon most Dailies were too much effort for the amount of rewards (e.g, compared to a Pet Battle WQ), and unfortunately, pet battle wasn‘t included.
  • Pristine Ka’ja Cola Cans: Felt absolutely fine when a player hit the Renown to unlock them.
  • Miserable Mechanica: If the currency acquisition hadn’t been that horrible, this could have been fine. But combined, the time investment for the amount and costs of purchasable pets felt extremely bad.
  • K’aresh „Ecological Succession“ Wriggling Pinnacle Cache: 12 pets and 1 mount from a source limited to be available once every week. No bad-luck protection (half of my drops were duplicates), no alternate source. Suggestions to replace the drops with a currency and put the 13 items on the vendor, like in Emerald Dream, have been ignored. Makes this another horrible acquisition method, 13 weeks minimum, a lot more based on the number of duplicate drops (even mount duplicates!), with patch releases aiming for an 8-week cadency.

Look into other features of your game. What drives players to return to raids, dungeons, delves, or their Spark Weekly week after week? Which parts can be transferred in some way into pet battles?

Does a raider return to a cleared raid? Very likely, because they still aim to get specific gear for specific slots, tertiary stats, upgrade currencies, better parses, etc.. At some point, they switch to the next difficulty tier and repeat.

Do we have a similar „progression“ in pet battle content? Barely any. Pet battle dungeons had a Normal and a Challenge Mode. Tamer battles offer a short-duration difficulty increase with Family Battlers, but that’s about it. So we need other carrots to keep players interested.

Replayability

The one example I could still spill tears about is the PvE encounters added for the „Abhorrent Adversaries“ achievement in Shadowlands. These boss pets were fun, had surprising mechanics, deep-thought synergies between ability usage, stats, buffs, and debuffs… but when the achievement was completed, players never got a reason to repeat them, if not for the fun. Fantastic ideas, nice work, just insta-burned because of a one-time use.

For the Traveler’s Log, you send us out into the whole WoW world to pet battle, but only once a month. Why not expand this to weekly or even semi-weekly tasks handed out in some sort of Pet Menagerie? The hubs we had were almost only there for vendors or a spot for Manapoof (I guess everyone was wondering why we had a battle post in the BfA hub). I could imagine some sort of return of „Defeat these Zone X PvE encounters with Aquatic“, or a „Win X pet battles in Midnight zones“, etc., for a semi-weekly quest to grab an Ultimate Training Stone, a significant amount of pet charms, or whatever carrot, because that‘s what most people need to engage with content.

A more recent one, C.H.E.T.T. Lists: We could find a pet battle-related task on them every week (more often with C.H.E.T.T. Cards), and this way, pet battles were connected to the gear upgrading system, IIRC an absolute novelty, but IMHO you missed an opportunity there.
This shouldn‘t have been about capturing 5 Undermine pets (at some point, players are capped at 3/3 in their collection and would have to delete pets, which is awful for breed hunters) but instead about winning 3-5 battles. Together with the fishing task, this C.H.E.T.T. List task balancing issue probably made them the most avoided tasks, and I wouldn‘t see it as the players‘ fault. But that‘s what your statistics would show for this particular thing: People didn‘t engage in pet battles and fishing.

What could be done?

Family restrictions to pet battles (like Family Battler achievements) seem to be an easy way to extend engagement in pet battles. When we had to defeat a dozen of them, barely any adjustments were needed when we were no longer required to beat every single one with every family (talking about almost impossible match-ups). Recently, the enemy pets‘ difficulty massively dropped with tamer pets no longer being epic/legendary or having Boss/Elite passives, and the number of required PvE encounters dropped as well. This difficulty decrease opened these achievements for a bigger audience, but also removed the need to hunt/level specific pets/breeds.

It was suggested before, but you could use „affixes“ like these to change the feel of pet battles regularly, e.g., we get more XP in a pet battle when we are only using pets of a family specified in a given week.
And it doesn‘t have to end with family restrictions, because you could add other affixes like weakened healing, increased damage, initial shields, or whatever, but of course, that would take some effort.

Be brave! You never had concerns about putting pets into content that pet collectors probably disliked or couldn‘t engage with (Mythic raiding, Honor, PvP WQs, expensive promotions, etc.), so why so afraid of the opposite way?
I’ll never forget the outcry when one-time pet battle quests in Nazjatar and Mechagon were rewarding reputation. If you‘d tune that reputation (or whatever valuable non-pet-supplies reward) down to not being as „impactful“ as back then, people who are eager to get it would probably consider pet battles, a lot of players did back then.

If at all, we need(ed) ways to lower the hurdle for those wanting specific rewards that require pet battling, not trying hard to never again collide with other parts of the game (with Valorstones/reputation from C.H.E.T.T. Lists being an outlier), and hiding it more and more in its own bubble/niche.

Similar to others, I wouldn’t call myself a collector for the collection part. I maintain my roster for existing and upcoming pet battles, and with what we see right now, this would be gone, and I’m glad I didn’t pre-purchase Midnight with no clue of what was going to happen to my favorite content. I don’t care about showing off mounts, they bring me from A to B. And I don’t want my pet battle collection to end as a second version of that, with even less functionality and visual “impact”.

23 Likes

Hello!

Finally able to share my feedback on these forums now that Beta access has started. The lack of feedback outside of this initial post is disheartening. I know there are likely much bigger fish to fry but it feels like lip service to something you were hoping would quietly fade away.

First and foremost I would like to echo everyone else that I would like to see pet battles continue into the future. I will be the first to admit that I do not have every pet or every achievement. It is something I like to chip away at. BUT world quests with pet battles ARE something I consistently do and enjoy doing. I am always looking to the new pets in an expansion or on the trading post or in the shop and I am looking at them for their battle prowess. We already have mounts for a cosmetic collect-a-thon. Pet battles were more than that. They were fun cosmetics WITH applicable gameplay purpose.

One of the cited reasons for getting rid of them is “Lack of participation” to which I do not think that is the players fault. What is there to participate with? Wild Pet battles are great for capturing pets but after that there’s no good reward for just doing them out in the world. Charms and stones from them are few and far between and there’s better ways to get experience. Additionally, there hasn’t been much new content for them. A handful of world trainers (The content I do all the time) isn’t much to participate in. Arguably the biggest content added (The Jeremy Feasel battle for the secret mount) did far more harm than good because it shined a light on this gameplay for a bunch of people who did not want it. The dungeons added years ago were a great addition but once you have everything from them they are somewhat of a slog as they can take forever. There could be more of these added that are quicker and snappier that would go a long way for participation. The idea of classic dungeons, but as pet battles, is inspired. Where are the Scarlet Monasteries, the Scholomances, and more?

Additionally, I know housing is a giant addition to the game but getting rid of the pet battle content is a GIANT missed opportunity to interact with this feature. Imagine the items that could be added to go along with pet that they can interact with or family pet battlers such as

-Dog Beds/Dog Houses for Beast Pets
-Roosts for flying pets
-Aquariums for aquatic pets
-Nests for Critters

A lot of options I am sure. Or with the visiting groups to the housing neighborhoods them bringing tournaments to get more pets around your house or having quests to help the wildlife around the neighborhood to help make that aspect much more personalized to everyone. I understand a lot of this would be a LOT of work so I operate under no delusions that this would be with the first pass of housing, but something to look in to for the future.

As it stands now with battling being phased out, my interest in pets is going with it. I didn’t want them to be a cosmetic collection before, and I don’t want it now. This will be less money spent in the cash shop because without new content, none of them hold the appeal to actually collect for me. They are a great casual man’s content that is a fun thing to do with downtime, something that I guess will largely be replaced with housing. It just feels terrible to lose one aspect of the game for another.

Thank you for listening.

20 Likes

Please do not continue supporting pet battles. I would like the developers to focus their time and resources on the parts of the game that the vast majority of people actually engage with.

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I finally get to respond here.

No, it’s not. You’re no longer doing pet battles.

Where were these? I certainly didn’t see anything about any more changes.

Yay, now I can just throw a cage and not have to think about it at all. Seriously, how does anyone think this is fun? Supposedly not enough people engage with pet battles, so the solution is to come up with something even less engaging?

Old content in old zones, that we’ve been doing for years. Again, how is that engaging?

Maybe if you actually provided better hooks into the pet battle gameplay for new players, more people would do it? There’s a lot of pet battle stuff that, unless you go looking for it, you’d never know it was there if you were new.

Again, no, you’re not. If you were actually iterating on pet battles, we’d be getting new capturable battle pets and trainers.

Great. That we can use in old content to fight trainers we’ve already fought a multitude of times or capture pets we already have?

Again, how is just throwing a cage at a pet fun or engaging?

Please don’t iterate on the new system. Keep pet battles. Give us new pet battles and trainers. Put in story hooks to lead new players to pet battles.

I’d also like to point out that there is a thread about the sunsetting of pet battles in the Pet Battle forum (which I’m convinced no one at Blizzard even reads) that has nearly 650 likes for the original post. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a post with that many likes before. There are also a multitude of first-time posters who’ve come to the forums specifically to ask that you keep making actual pet battle content.

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So I was finally able to copy a toon over, and spent some time flying around outside of new Silvermoon to see if the new capture system is as dumb as I suspect it is. I had Track Pets on, but I didn’t see any of the “new” pets. Are they not trackable? I ran around on the ground for a bit, too, but didn’t see anything I could capture. I went back to Orgrimmar and found some real battle pets that showed up on the mini map.

Has anyone else seen any of the new wild pets yet? I know they were in Alpha…

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They are really far outside of silvermoon in a small cluster area…

1 Like

So they’re not even spread out?

Can you tell me about where?

Edit: I found one near Thas’Minella. It did pop up on the mini map, and just throwing a cage to capture it felt about as lame as I expected. I was almost offended at the fact that a firework went off, considering only effort involved was just finding the gorram thing.

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Don’t worry, all the “magic and joy of exploration to find one” will be solved by completing the checklist of waypoints from wowhead in under 3 minutes for the whole expansion.

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It looks like you (devs) are trying to do something with the levels for Zunta (maybe others, idk), and right now it’s not scaling it’s just randomizing their levels even when a 25 is on the player team. Not sure if this is what was intended.

Second, he’s now non-repeatable. I imagined would be an issue since, for some reason, pet battle dailies are account-wide dailies, meaning you fight them once a day for your entire account. I’ve always found that silly in the first place, since the rewards are laughably bad especially in current times. That said, I assume this will be fixed so that the tamer can be repeated for the achievements?

Third, how is this going to impact the old quest chain, or is that going to be phased out?

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That’s kind of mind boggling. They added family battler achievements to the old zones, but you can’t fight the trainers more than once a day? Isn’t that how everyone does the family battlers, though? Stand at the trainer and cycle through your teams? But now we can’t?

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Okay, so I’ve played through the new “intro quests” to the new pet collecting malarky.

So you guys created a building in the new Silvermoon, and came up with a few quests for pet collecting, but actually making them battle pets was too much? This was a perfect place to put in new hooks for the pet battle gameplay, especially since new folks who have played through the truncated DF and TWW experience will probably miss the ONE hook in Orgrimmar/Stormwind.

You’ve also created what is obviously supposed to be a shop called, “Little Treasures,” yet there’s no pets to be purchased there? You’ve obviously decided that there’s enough engagement to put in this much effort on your part, but not enough to actually continue supporting the overall pet battle gameplay with new trainers and the like?

Finally, I’m annoyed that I’m going to have to capture one of these new knock-off pets in order to try to get Loremaster.

15 Likes