Feedback: Pack Leader Hunter

Classes Hunter
42

Gameplay Impact: C- to B+

  • This will depend on exact (and as of yet unknown) fine details of how the gameplay-affecting talents work.

Theme: C- to B-

I don’t hate what I’m seeing, but the theme feels under-utilized to me, and I worry that apart from Furious Assault, most of the (rather few) impactful talents look like they could turn degenerative, especially to Survival’s resource flow (e.g., if bonus KCs give Focus, leading to resource glut and devaluing Pheromone, banking, etc.), all while only really doubling down on parts that already worked fine (e.g., CA could already be managed to keep WFB away from KSs when you wanted to affect KS, and vice versa, and it’s actually a good thing, imo, that we have time to focus target between our AoEs, especially for Injectors enjoyers). To give just a couple examples…

  • Covering Fire will disproportionately affect Carve over Butchery, but if we’re to even keep Carve as an option, it shouldn’t take until level 74 to make it a real choice. More importantly, though, our 5-target AoE isn’t really the issue, and this seems like it will just make our AoE periods more spammy and balance themselves to the same AoE output but with less focus damage from previously non-AoE GCDs (spent on RS/MB).
  • Cull the Herd would require AMoC or Bloodshed to interact more impactfully and still doesn’t seem likely enough to want to take CA and SH together.

And the only part that seems all that “Pack Leader”-esque is… Beast of Opportunity, which I can only hope won’t outperform the seemingly more fun Furious Assault anyways.

Almost certainly separately, since it would otherwise be an AoE talent for BM but an ST talent for SV.

Not unless you’d otherwise be frequently thereby overriding bleeds. Short of that, Haste benefits your crit rate more than Crit since you’re getting more benefit from the free Crit chance.

Tbf, it appears to be a flat damage increase, simply having you deal some %AP as well. Only Frenzied Tear deals a % of the original skill’s damage, and for a doubled builder, that’s pretty well beside the point.

It just means that Pack Leader-SV will be among most melee of melees in single-target, given how little a portion of its CPM will be on anything ranged.

That’s… not actually an issue here; they seem to have accounted for that. If bonus KCs give Focus (and the wording thus far would imply they do), the perk of Pack Leader for SV is to spend a smaller portion of casts on KC. The perk of Pack Leader for BM is to spend a larger portion of casts on KC. In either case, you’re shifting more GCDs towards your ‘big damage GCDs’.

Edit: That all being said, for all I’m not terribly optimistic about Pack Leader right now and want more from it, it’s not nearly as bad as some (who I’m increasingly beginning to suspect do not play, or at least know how to play, Survival, despite commenting on the tree as if from that perspective) seem to think.

43

Where’s the pack? I was promised a pack to lead, and I don’t see it anywhere.

This tree is, fine, I guess. It’s kind of boring, but also highly functional (at least for BM), which is better than alternative I suppose. I do wish it was more aesthetically interesting though. Give us the pack we were promised!

7 Likes
44

I don’t play SV, so this feedback is only from a BM perspective:

This is possibly one of the worst hero talent trees. It doesn’t affect your rotation in any way other than occasional KC and Barbed Shot resets (which we already get resets on those) and also doesn’t have any real interesting theming. I feel like a hero talent has to do at least one of these things and the best hero talents will have both.

When I think of a pack leader, I think of having a large pack of animals. This doesn’t fulfill that theme whatsoever. What would have been a more interesting route is having KC/Barbed Shot give you stacks and then you summon beasts when you Bestial Wrath based on the number of stacks you have. Still passive and doesn’t really change the rotation but would’ve at least had some visual flair to it.

9 Likes
45

Rexar’s pack was 2 pets.

2 Likes
46

you already have a pack of animals as BM, no?

1 Like
47

And demo summons a pack of imps but they still managed to add more summons in their hero talent tree

4 Likes
48

It already locks you into COTW, one of the lower nodes directly interacts with it.

Also I suggested several ideas, there’s also unused Loa models that we can’t tame as pets that could be available for visual flair.

But you haven’t seemed to read the talents themselves and also lack imagination so I guess I shouldnt be shocked.

49

And that’s suppose to be a good thing ? we already have turbo melee clutter

1 Like
50

right and “Pack Leader” isn’t “pack summoner”. You enhance your pets or “lead” them

1 Like
51

Then how is this a “Hero talent tree” if you already do all the things it implies?

Maybe they should take another look.

7 Likes
52

True, but where is the theme of Pack Leader? There doesn’t seem to be any visual theme at all. Maybe Beast of Opportunity, but that’s a choice node that will likely appear to be any standard Dire Beast.

7 Likes
53

?? It enhances what you do. that’s the entire point of the hero talent trees

the theme is you lead your pets to do more damage and coordinated your pets with your own attacks. it’s right there in the OP thread

" Pack Leaders are Hunters that use the instincts, knowledge, and respect they’ve gained over the years as they formed a deep bond and trust with the animals they adventure with. They bring a new style of ferocity and coordination to their combat, teaching their pet to strike their prey with simultaneous attacks."

Nothing about this says or implies mass summoning of animals

1 Like
54

Well no, leaders are well know that instead of making people under you perform better, you just get 50 more.

That’s why leadership is not about making everyone perform better, but simply just getting more ppl.

1 Like
55

Then it’s not doing that job either. If they went the enhancement route I’d be fine with that too, like summoning an Alpha pet kinda like how the demonic tyrant buffs a demo pet’s demons but it’s all just passive stuff that won’t even feel any different or probably even look different from how BM is currently.

5 Likes
56

Except when what you do previously had thoughtful consideration and it just replaces them increasingly with “Hey! You can just spam your big attack now! Nice, right?!”… that’s a waste.

And that’s the main thing we’re getting out of Pack Leader. Even less cast-diversity. Even less thought.

There is zero active coordination added. It’s just bonus %AP on KC.

  • At best it gives also the ability to weave in extra CA-buffed skills within the CA window via a timely RS/MB if you would have previously otherwise been just barely screwed over, but the net result of that (unless failing to track when your next KS/WFB would be buffed) is… 20% more of WFB’s direct damage, which is negligible compared to the BoP KSs you already could guarantee.

If anything, the bigger difference is just in how much of what tools and considerations we already have would likely be degraded.

2 Likes
57

ITT ppl can’t distinguish between Zoo Keepers and Leaders.

2 Likes
58

Didn’t say it did. I asked about the visual theme of the tree. It doesn’t have to be a bunch of pets, but I would like to see something actually thematic.

1 Like
59

In order to be a pack leader you have to have a pack. Maybe you could say BM already has a pack since they have two pets, but Survival only has 1. I would hardly call that a pack.

6 Likes
60

For all we know those procs give visual effects to pets.

sounds like SV needs to get a free pet from spec tree

61

yes it does? using your abilities instructs your pets to attack, increases their damage, and feeds back into itself.

sure, if you ignore pack coordination and frenzied tear and furious assault