I like it. I play bm for its ease of skill to play. If it does decent dps, then that’s a win for the class.
I hope that the vocal minority doesn’t ruin it for the silent majority.
I am sure it can be improve upon. However I am looking forward to playing this class fantasy.
Which fantasy specifically does this serve, and how is that different from what BM already is?
The problem I have here is that, this new tree adds nothing new to the classes, its completely if X, Y happens, if Y happens Z happens… that is all it is.
The way they pitched it as these where going to take your character to the next level, but all I see is the same ol same ol… nothing new nothing different.
Not a single thing in this tree is new or different or interesting in any way, it might give the hunter a .1% boost in DPS as long as it procs, but where is the theme? where is the excitement of a new talent tree as everything here could have just as easily been baked right into the abilities we already have.
If your whole idea is to add a new tree, shouldn’t that tree make you excited that we have a new tree? new abilities? a new wrinkle to your class? because for me as a long time BM main does nothing to engender that type of excitement.
Also I was the one that brought up as an example a third pet, because at least that would make me interested in this new tree. Because right now I can tell you, I see zero in this to make me excited at all.
There is no theme to it, its like we need to make this tree work for two specs, so lets go with the easiest and most boring way possible. Procs for everyone.
Hero talents were never meant to be transformative or drastically alter gameplay. Blizzard has stated this since Blizzcon, when they were originally announced:
Hero Talents don’t override what matters to a class. You should feel like you’re playing your spec with a twist or a boost and not as if the things you care about have become unimportant or been replaced.
A Hero Talent tree might add new behavior or bonuses to an existing ability, like Keeper of the Grove’s bonuses to Force of Nature and Grove Guardian treants. They might occasionally reset the cooldown on abilities or replace spells with more powerful versions. They might make it easier to maintain important buffs or grant additional resources at key moments.
They explicitly state that they would not significantly alter how you play. They are minor bonuses that reinforce how a spec already plays.
Would a third pet be interesting? Thematically, sure. Gameplay wise? It’s visual clutter that does nothing but passive damage. You won’t interact with another pet at all. It just exists to do damage. You do, however, interact with all the procs in the current talent tree.
Druid of the Claw introduces Bearweaving to feral cat rotation. Alrachi adds a 3-4 sequence combo to Throw glaive, Chaos Strike, and Blade Dance.
Those classes also already have transformative choices in their regular talent trees, which Hunter does not. Frost mages can play Ice lance vs. Glacial Spike. Frost DK’s have Breath vs Obliteration. Demon Hunters have Demonic or Momentum etc. BM and MM have played identically in aoe and ST for 2 entire expansions now with zero variety.
Beast Mastery has some talents that are already in their tree, which would be better for Pack Leader than just ignored.
Murder of Crows would visually look amazing as it summons a flock of birds. It could be removed from Bloodshed and take the place of one of Pack Leaders’ less interesting talents, even if it just a passive DoT.
Then Stampede could be moved and be connected to Vicious Hunt, and instead of just the physical damage it summons all your active pets at once.
At the same time, Beast of Opportunity is tied to BW and CA having a way to reduce the cooldown of those two would give more uptime on the beast.
the thing is, blizzard never said they were going to be “transformative” they wer elegit gonna be “more talents” and not to expect much. if the community gaslit themselves it was gonna do “more” cause of fancy lore names than thats not blizzards fault
everytime a small borrowed power tried to do something more, it always blew up in blizzards face, like covens and azerite powers. its better to let the core spec change the spec as a whole not borrowed power that may or may not stay post expansion
this entire person post btw, explains it way better than i can
they can already weave into their rotation, if the shift to bear is still on the global cooldown then bearweaving is effectively dead in the water. same for bear and cat weaving along with other issues
it really does, its just a “press this one button for a window” which havoc already has with initiative, inertia, and essencebreak. please dont talk about other specs if you have minimum knowledge and how these trees work for them.
both have the same issues such as boss uptime requirement and both play the same as well. instead of extending bos you get more piller of strength uptime with icy pulp.
this wasnt a thing ever since dragonflight started. demonic and momentum were hand in hand all expansion long. if you opted to play no movers then frankly that was your choice but it was very much the wrong choice for any serious content and blizzard should tune or design the spec on normal raid or sub 10 m+ keys
so basically screw over surv and make the tree “bm only” the worst hero trees focused to much on one spec like dark ranger. dont advocate for more like it
Speak for yourself, Survival has Coordinated Assault vs Ruthless Marauder (and vs Spearhead when that’s tuned better) 
Aldrachi adds even more short DPS cd windows which havoc really doesn’t want to juggle even more of these. you’re already using cs and bd, now you just have to set up a WA to use TG when you slurp up enough souls.
Pack Leader already gives different options based of spec. Giving MoC to BM is just add too the pet theme.
Just tossing out some more ideas that I would enjoy seeing used.
Vicious Hunt - Kill Command has a 20% chance to summon a random pet from your stable to fight for 6 seconds and causes all of your pets to lunge at the target.
Alpha Status - Your pets summoned by Vicious Hunt grant you their specialization bonus at 25% effectiveness and these effects can now stack.
Dominant Traits - When your pets damage an enemy with Kill Command, reduce the cooldown of a corresponding cooldown by .5 seconds.
Cunning = Aspect of Cheetah, Tenacity = Survival of the Fittest, Ferocity = Exhilaration
Pack Coordination - When you spend Focus, your pet gains 10% of the amount. When your pet spends Focus, you gain 10% of the amount.
Kill or Be Killed - If you have more than 50 Focus, your Raptor Strike (Surv) or Kill Command (BM) costs 50 Focus and deals 100% more damage.
Pack Assault - Casting Bestial Wrath or Flanking Strike resets the duration of your randomly summoned pets, summons an additional random pet from your stable, and doubles the chance of Vicious Hunt for 6 seconds.
kill command is surv hunters main engine, anything that amps kc makes the entire spec alot faster
It the focus builder otherwise it just a slap. Pack Leader all the focus on KC just turns BM into KC spamming.
it seems like the point i was trying to make is going completely over your head cause of a bm bias. you do you i guess
While Kill Command damage is lower for Survival, the big value comes not from the Kill Command damage in the tree, but the extra KC resets. Even then, there is only one node buffing the direct damage of Kill Command.
While running Spearhead builds, Kill Command starts doing noticeable damage. Each stack of Deadly Duo causes KC to hit 40% harder, up to 120% harder (and Frenzied Tear would, presumably, cause a second hit based off the Deadly Duo stacked Kill Command). KC also causes Mongoose Bite to hit 25% harder, which is also not seen directly.
KC resets also have several layers of effects.
It is possible, though mostly unlikely, that Survival would also spec into the left side of the class tree to further improve KC damage, though this would be HIGHLY tuning dependent. It is currently not worth doing so in Dragonflight, but things could change.
There is a lot of value in Kill Command but it is not something you can tell just by looking at Kill Command damage.
Thank you for the explanation. Then it not just KC it a chain that is improving SV.
solid post fren
True I am really liking all this feed back. I hope the bliz dev’s act on this and give us a genuine pack leader class fantasy. My hope would be more pets active, at least 3. However more than that would be really awesome.
The simplest criterion of whether a hero talent tree is good: is there an “oh wow!” moment or not ?
Dark ranger: oh wow, my barbed shot just reset!
Pack leader: oh wow, the bonus damage from kill command is now doubled!
Yeah… now compare that to warrior demolish, or the DH reaver 3-attack combo, or the death knight 4-knights summon.
I think everyone can see the difference
Does “Oh wow thats terrible” count?