7 points in the tree if you’re taking Answered Prayers. 9 if you’re going with Epiphany as well.
Hehe.
Benediction/Holy Mending = 1
Divine Service = 1
Prayers of the Virtuous = 2
Say Your Prayers = 1
Epiphany =2
So 7 if you count only talents that ONLY buff Mending
Then you have
Answered Prayers = +2. I certainly count it, as it ONLY works off of PoM.
Voice of Harmony = +2. This one you may choose to only partly count, but part of its budget it certainly given over to mending.
So 10-11 talent points buffing mending in holy.
So yeah, with 49 total talent points and 39 nodes PoM eats 20% and 20% respectively. Yikes.
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They just need to trim down the talents.
Divine Service, Epiphany, and Say Your Prayers can easily go.
SYP and Epiphany could easily be fused into a single 1 point node with no notable issues, or extreme gain in power. Then add the effect of Divine Service into PotV.
But yeah, almost all of Holy’s R7 and R9 talents need trimmed.
Left-side of the tree has issues with the PoH talents.
You’re forced to take PoH if you want to get Circle of Healing even if you never use it.
There’s also 3 talents dedicated to PoH when it’s not even that powerful of a raid healing ability.
PoH is a… mess. Went from iconic priest ability to quite possibly the worst AE heal in the game, even with talents. They should just shove it into holy baseline, repurpose all of its talents for CoH, and then forget it exists.
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So massive buffs to Oracle on beta. The rest of the hero tree looks like it might be good… if it weren’t tied to Premonition.
As they will probably hit VW again with a number of -20%s I can only make a basic recommendation to make Premonition less headache inducing:
Treat it as a 1.5 or 2 minute CD(1.5min if you take perfect vision). If you ‘double tap’ every time you will basically always have Insight+Piety and can plan your priority/rotation around those. Use the Solace if you can, but do not let it bog you down or interfere.
Kinda an odd way to deal with a bad system, but it might at least lower irritation a bit.
I’ll have to math it out tomorrow, but I still think Oracle is going to be like 10-15% behind Archon Halo for raid.
Unless oracle outpaces archon by a large factor I suspect people are going to take archon just for the sake of readability and ease of use.
Oracle is cool. But the buff management seems over designed. (I say this fully aware I haven’t tested it extensively, I could be wrong)
3 Likes
Honestly not sure why they didn’t give Holy a +25% baseline healing boost because that would put us on par with most of the other specs on the beta.
Either way for raid.
- A +25% healing increase to PoM is a 2.5% overall healing increase.
- Free PWS to the first target of PoM (assuming 30 casts) is about a 4% healing increase. The beta is down so I need to test this with Holy Word Salvation still.
- +6s duration Renews is about a 2% overall healing increase.
If I combine all of these it’s still not touching the 20-25% overall contribution from Archon Halo. If they nerfed Archon Halo by -50% and buffed our overall healing by like +40% then I think Oracle would be on parity with Archon.
However, for M+ I think it’s going to be a different story. I don’t have any dungeon logs infront of me to compare, but IMHO I think Oracle might edge out with just the free PWS from casting PoM.
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3! second Atonement buff! Dear Big Blizzard in the Sky I want Oracle to work out, the kit is just so dang tempting. Insight, Insta-Radiance, longer Atonements, shared Divine Feathers- it’s icing on icing on icing. But the numbers have to be there, we need the cake too.
So i tried out the new talent “Cauterizing shadows” Talent or W/e first off why is it not a smart heal It has no business healing Warlock pets, Hunter pets Afflicted mob’s or any of that. Like Pleasseeeee
I actually just realized that with the Oracle cap stone if you cast Premonition of Solace you’re getting all 3 buffs at the same time. That’s honestly pretty dang powerful.
I think Oracle might be in play for Disc in M+ since they nerfed Voidweaver by -60% and it’s a +25% damage boost instead of +15% for Oracle. This gives you a lot smoother healing experience for M+ because you’re not in a constant rollercoaster like Voidweaver going from +40% atonement healing for 11s and then losing it.
Piety also lets you cdr Mindbender to 50s if you use Fatebender plus you can reset Radiance to a 5s cd. This makes it a lot easier for raid to go Radiance → 5s Radiance → burst out bunch of healing with Harsh Discipline.
You forgot that Radiance has 2 charges. So with Insight you can do some crazy stuff like Radiance - Penance - Radiance - Penance - Radiance or R-R-P-R-P or MF-R-P-R-P.
Basically(with 33% haste) goes like Rad(1charge 15s-7s = 8s till 2c) → 6-hit Penance(9s - 7s -1.5channel) → Rad2(0c, 8s - 3s cast - 7s = 1c, 13s till 2c) → 6-hit Penance → Rad3(0c, 13s -3s cast, 10 sec till next Rad) and you still have ~7 seconds left on Piety. With more haste you will likely need to toss some smites in there, but that is what it is.
This is why I think Perfect Vision(-15s CD) will likely be prefered over Fatebender for Disc, 90 seconds for 2x Premo lines up with just about ALL of our CDs and Ramps and -7 sec
insight just plays too well with Bright Pupil and Penance.
You also get two charges of Premonition.
With the capstone being Solace gives you everything they should just make Premonition do all the buffs at once instead of needing to wait for Solace to come up.
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Yup, would be a lot cleaner, and you wouldn’t have to mess with storing up 2 charges so you could always do insight+piety together.
I see Oracle being stronger for Disc in M+ at this point, but even with the absolute beating it took VW will still likely outperform it in raid. VW still just plain out-synergizes Oracle, because it plays to the functional side of the spec tree(aka the right side aka the darkside).
Unless they change it so that 50% of all raid bosses do rot damage instead of burst the SCoV + A.Reverie + Voidheart combo just pairs way too well with Voidblast and Rift.
As long as SCoV exists we will always be a bit of a mess.
But is the disaster of managing a rotating set of buffs on a 3 minute+ cycle worth it? For me the problem has never been the numbers but the pain and suffering of trying to min-max 3 lackluster minibuffs that will not be used on cooldown and lack clarity of when to use each one effectively. Basically with Holy oracle is the juice worth the squeeze?
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dear devs can you just delete oracle already? thank you
5 Likes
After the buffs today… and now realizing Clairvoyance happens on top of Solace, instead of as a 4th stage in the rotation… Oracle may really just be the play for Disc M+. Even if its numbers don’t reach Voidweaver’s theoretical peaks, it’s far more flexible and suited to dealing with the chaotic, movement-heavy nature of dungeons.
Also, been looking at Disc builds in general, and a few interesting things pop up.
It’s very light on options in the upper 2/3rds of the tree. A few blatant subpar talents (Contrition) and good pathing options makes it extremely easy to just grab nearly everything. The difference between a healbot/shieldbot spec and a shadow build is all of ~5 nodes. I find myself taking Schism and Scov just as a matter of overflow to open up Row 8. It’s sort of possible to take the shadow talents and then play a normalish holy build and treat Schism/Scov as passive bonuses rather than the center of your rotation.
The bottom 3 rows is where things muck up. Row 9 is clogged by all those 2 pointers. Most of them don’t offer commensurate value for being 2 points. 4 of our 5 endcaps only have 1 pathing option (tbf, only Weal and Woe is generic enough to warrant a second parent). If you want three of our endcaps you have take a very awkward set of talents.
The bottom of the tree needs a lot of work, but I don’t have a simple solution, since I agree in principal that you shouldn’t be able to grab everything. Just cutting every 2 pointer down to 1 would allow you to pick up 2/3rds of the talents.
Maybe, it’s okay for these talents to be expensive- but, there would need to be a clearer delineation between builds- I shouldn’t WANT Lenience, Train of Thought, Harsh Discipline, Aegis of Wrath, Blaze+Weal and Woe, and all of Uppies at the same time.
Just for clarification Clairvoyance happens on the 4th cast of premonition, it doesn’t stack on the third, so after you do Solace the next premonition is Clairvoyance. The wording can be confusing but that is how it works on Beta.