FEEDBACK: Night Fae Covenant

The current version of Fay Blessings for healing priest creates toxic gameplay for the healing priest using it and could potentially lead to some balancing problems.

The problem with the covenant is very similar to Blessing of Seasons but I would argue Fay Blessings is a bigger problem that is being under looked.

One of the problems with the ability is the bad game play it creates. This is because the optimal usage case for providing power to an ally for disc priest requires using your major 90 second CD (Rapture) to apply 10 Power Word: Shields to a single target.

I argue this is bad gameplay for these reasons;

    1. Using Fay Blessings in this manner hinders the disc priest’s own output significantly. While it could be argued this is fine for the support fantasy the covenant is pushing, Power Infusion shares this fantasy as well but it does so in a non-hindering fashion. This is because Power Infusion is off the global cooldown and is not mandatory for the gameplay of Disc Priest. This is not true for Fay Blessings, as Rapture is a core ability for Disc Priest.
    1. The optimal gameplay of Fay Blessings is terrible to play with. I want to highlight this concern particularly for the high end raiding population would may pick this covenant because it is the most powerful. The gameplay of using 10 Power Word: Shield’s on the same target goes against the gameplay of both disc priest and healers in general. While anecdotal, I have noticed from reading the discourse around this ability, healing priests do not like this gameplay and will be upset if they feel forced into picking this covenant because it is the best one.
    1. Most importantly, giving 1 player 200% extra resource seems incredibly hard to balance. Rising Mist had to be completely reworked mid-raid because of unintended interactions. Abusing Fay Blessings seems like a gate-way to future balancing problems requiring mid-raid nerfs. The cited example everyone talks about is feeding breath of sindragosa duration. Some testers have been able to effectively double the duration of the normal breath through the use of Fay Blessings abuse.

Everything I have mentioned here can be equally applied to Holy Priest as their best usage of Fay Blessings is to cast 10 Prayer of Healing in a row. This gameplay equally disregards the effectiveness of Prayer of Healing whilst greatly hindering their own output

Ultimately I would suggest a complete rework to the ability. The idea of a support covenant for Priest is a good idea but not executed in this fashion.

22 Likes

I was reading some of the Wowhead Datamined Soulshape forms we will be able to choose once we align ourselves with the Night Fae covenant, and I was really hoping I would see Dragonhawks listed there! I think having Soulshape’s form include additional options, such as beasts closely affiliated with our race, would add a lot of depth to player agency and experience within the Night Fae covenant! Super looking forward to serving the Winter Queen :snowflake: :crown: !

1 Like

So I reached 60, completed the initial tour through the 4 areas, How do I actually join the Night Fae covenant?

Conduit vendor appears to be missing from the Heart of the Forest this build.

One of Niya’s soulbind path options, Niya’s Tools: Poison is a non-option for resto druids and I assume most other healer specs. We have no way to activate the effect as it procs on interrupts so if we want to take the third potency conduit in that tree, we have to have an unusable effect. This would be a better choice if it included interrupts and CCs like the Sephuz legendary from Legion.

Even if overall power levels were balanced to make this mathematically a non-issue, it would still feel really bad to have to take something that I can never proc or get any benefit out of.

I just tried Soulshape for the first time and I was really disappointed. The 30% speed buff combined with the large-ish fox model actually made me feel like I was going the same speed, if not slower, and the 10 yard blink doesn’t feel like a speed boost at all either.

This was one of the main spells i was looking forward to; I’m really disappointed. Any chance this could be increased to normal sprint levels (60%?) and the blink to 15 or 20 yards? I’d be fine with these changes increasing the cooldown on both abilities, respectively.

I love the possibility of the after-effect stealth for protecting pvp spots (assuming that feature works in BGs), but the spell is pretty much useless otherwise in its current state.

5 Likes

To reply to myself – I just fired this up again and verified that the post-Soulshape stealth drops combat. This effectively “saves” this spell for me, and I hope this is intentional behavior and sticks around! One of these Spectral Guise type macros (named “Vanish”):

#showtooltip Soulshape
/cancelaura Soulshape
/cast Soulshape

Mashing that is my very own Monk vanish. I LOVE IT! :smile:

Tried a new character (Covenant) and when flying to start the Night Fae location I ended up with the DREADED SPINNG WHEEL. Remember most MAC users were upgraded to macOS Big Sur last night but I have been testing it for a while.

Here’s some feedback on the Dreamweaver Soulbind Trait “Podtender”:

  1. The buff associated with this ability can be manually canceled (right-clicked or “/cancelaura”) which ends the “seed-state” early and allows the player to become active again.
  2. There are situations where being in a “seed-state” for 10 seconds is worse than dying and receiving a battle res (especially as a tank). I would re-balance the ability around a 5 or 6 second duration, instead, which is more comparable to how long it may take to res a player if they had actually died. Otherwise, there are some situations where people may choose not to advance to this soulbind trait if they were using Dreamweaver’s tree.
1 Like

Just a suggestion for the Paladin ability Blessing of Seasons. It would make sense if the tooltip changed colors with the seasons. It’s currently very difficult to figure out which one is next when the ability is on cooldown since they are all blue.

2 Likes

First of all, I am a not a cutting edge kind of player so I’m slow in Torghast.
But Mort’regar, right now, is REALLY tough on a solo mage. (I play arcane. Don’t judge.)
This instance, one floor in particular, removes all my survival skills. I can’t sheep, can’t cast greater invisibility (to evade the elites), and can’t really blink away. Elites appear and disappear randomly and are packed in very tight. I was able to do it as a Kyrian, but if you’re serious about other covenants (particularly night fae) this is really not fun. Shifting Power needs to either be strong enough to damage these mobs freehand or I need to be able to polymorph them. I really would love to play night fae…frustrated. (I’m trying the highest endurance build to see if that makes a difference.) To make it worse, some of the anima powers are for polymorphing and you can’t polymorph any of the mobs!

Update: the new endurance conduit build didn’t help much, but I have several suggestions to make night fae viable in this instance.

  1. Have an anima power that increases the power of Arcane Explosion and/or Shifting Power (I have seen zero conduits to buff the night fae ability like I have with Radiant Spark, btw) and not just the area of attack. Have this persistent and stackable, not just on the first use of AE.
  2. Have an anima power that allows mages to polymorph these Darksoul mobs, similar to the one that lets us sheep undead in Torghast.
  3. Have an anima power that allows us to cast Greater Invisibility to evade the elites that have all-seeing in this floor of Torghast (it’s the fourth one for this quest that you have to do to save Thrall).
  4. Cut back on some of the mobs in that supertight area, and/or the ticking shadow damage. It’s extremely tight and there is just too much going on. Those elites that appear and vanish, on their own, are not that hard to kill but stacked with the shadow damage, the area, and the big elites you have to kill, it’s not the least bit fun for an arcane mage soloing. And I would imagine, for other classes soloing as well. Ranged needs room to stand back and cast; this area I could see being ok for a cleaving class that can claw their way through, maybe, but for ranged, it’s a nightmare right now.
1 Like

I’ll echo others’ sentiments here about the blink range on Soulshape feeling quite lacking. Especially when I’m using as a shaman in ghost wolf form and the Spirit Wolf talent - I’m pretty sure I go further if I just keep running instead of using the blink (which may be why the blink is so short, because of this shaman combo?) Perhaps an alternative is a larger blink distance but a longer cooldown, so perhaps blink us forward 20 yards but the CD between each blink is 5 seconds, so you could only get 2 in while it is up?
Thematically, I love it though, and can’t wait to see what other forms we can choose. I’m curious how these other forms will be obtained - I purchased a Crane form from the quartermaster in the Heart of the Forest but I couldn’t figure out how to use it… I’ll also be curious to know if we can choose different forms for different specs (just for some fun variety)

2 Likes

Night Fae is currently the single most useless Covenant for all 3 Warlock specs, primarily because the Night Fae Warlock ability is terribly designed.

When I say it is terribly designed here, I mean that it is terrible from every single design aspect. It feels incredibly akward to use, it performs terribly, it has zero spec synergy, and has no class/spec flavor (except for MAYBE Affliction, but we’ll get to that). This is one of the only Covenant abilities that I have seen where it is not worth pressing even if you have that.

I’ll say that part again - Even if you chose Night Fae, your best option is to never use this ability because of how terrible it is. You would need to buff the damage of Drain Life during the cleave by at least a few hundred percent just to make this button worth pressing, but even that will not make it competitive in any situation compared to our other Covenant options.

Let’s start with Destruction and Demonology. Both specs are heavily designed around quickly generating and spending shards as fast as possible, both for AoE and single target. Regardless of how you are playing either spec, spending and generating shards is your primary rotational goal. Both specs involve heavy resource management to make sure you get a significant payoff during cooldowns by spending shards to set up for either a big Tyrant (with Consumption), or a great Infernal (with Rain of Chaos). To make a Warlock stop that generator/spending flow to spend 5+ seconds casting something else, in this case Soul Rot -> Drain Life cleave, the payoff would need to be huge just to make up for the wasted damage potential. Currently, the ability does not deliver. Drain Life is a low damage, near useless spell where the only theoretical use would be if you needed to heal yourself. Even then, as a competitive raider who does hardcore progression every single tier, I can count on one hand the number of times that I felt compelled to heal myself with Drain Life during all of BFA as either Destruction or Demonology. Simply put, Warlocks are one of the most durable non-tank classes in the game, certainly the most durable ranged class. If I am at the point where I feel that I need to heal myself with Drain Life, then the rest of the raid is almost certainly dead.

As the ability stands, there is almost no PvE situation where using Drain Life after Soul Rot is correct as either Demonology or Destruction. This defeats the entire point of the ability, and makes it boring and flavorless. The subsequent Drain Life cast would need to be buffed substantially, 500% or more (see Affliction for why), for it to fit the niche that it needs to. Even then, the ability is still on a 1-minute cooldown, and is only ideal for very specific stacked cleave situations. To really fit that niche to the point where it is truly competitive in that slot, you would need to buff it even more.

Therein lies the problem, because now we get to Affliction. Affliction obviously has access to the Inevitable Demise talent, which with proper setup allows you to buff your next Drain Life cast by 600%. This applies to the Drain Life cleave that you can setup during Soul Rot as well, which is why this ability is not nearly as bad for Affliction as it is for Destruction and Demonology. In fact, Soul Rot -> Drain Life cleave with 50 stacks of ID is substantial damage. It is reasonably strong and can be great in dungeons during 3-5 mob pulls where they are tightly grouped and you can cleave. But, this now leaves us with two huge problems.

  1. The scenario in which Soul Rot -> DL cleave is strong is extremely situational. The damage that you gain during that specific situation IS NOT enough to make up for the damage loss in all other situations. It is a mediocre damage gain compared to other covenants in that situation, but becomes near useless on single target or high target AoE, which are far more common situations. It is actually even worse than that for single target, since for Soul Rot to be useful, you are forced into taking ID. This means that you cannot take Drain Soul, which is far stronger for single target in addition to just feeling much better to use than Shadowbolt. You are giving up a significant quality of life AND damage talent just to make this Covenant situationally viable as a single spec.

  2. To make Soul Rot even worth pressing as Destruction or Demonology, you would need to buff the subsequent Drain Life casts by such a ridiculous amount that it would become beyond broken for Affliciton. There is no middle ground since Affliction has access to a 600% modifier already. The only solution would be to give Drain Life a huge buff for Destruction and Demonology, but not for Affliction, but honestly this just feels bad and would show how poorly designed this ability is for all of the specs involved.

My Solution: This ability just needs to be scrapped. There is no solution that I can see that will make this ability feel good to press while still being worth using. Just toss it and let us try something new.

4 Likes

Faeline Stomp ability for Monks, especially for WW, could use a bit more work:

This spell definitely has potential but it could use just a little bit more, or a couple tweaks, to make it perfect. It’s a very visually impressive spell but right now it’s just not worth using.

  • We’re likely many months away from tuning but this spell could use a bit more damage. Currently it feels like throwing a wet noodle at a bunch of targets and watching it bounce off them harmlessly. It’s also bugged in that it often hits a target only once no matter how many times you cast the ability on them.
  • The ground effect you can stand in for the CD reset is placed a decent distance away from the Monk. This forces immediate movement which could be undesirable and thus I’d ask the spell effect start directly beneath the Monk for quality of life purposes. Also anything in between the Monk and the ground effect takes no damage despite being in melee range. (https://i.imgur.com/RfiXlKZ.jpg)
  • The CD reset mechanic does feel amazing. I was able to use Faeline stomp 5 times in a 25 second period which resulted in 5 different visually impressive ground effects at the same time. This felt great. However… the low CD of the spell itself on top of the CD reset mechanic conflicts heavily with the WW Mastery (Combo Strikes) and Hit Combo. For this reason I’d ask that Faeline Stomp count as a Monk spell so we don’t lose Mastery/Hit Combo.
  • Lastly, the Energy spheres (Chi spheres are not spawning per tooltip, bugged?). I didn’t really find a use for these as we can’t effectively utilize extra resources on WW and keep our Mastery / Hit Combo intact. Additionally these spheres spawn all over the place, including off to the sides and not even on the very ground effect we’re being asked to stand on to reset the ability CD. I really don’t like having to run around like a deranged lunatic picking up spheres other players can’t see and thus have no idea what we’re doing. Not sure what to change here but the Orbs just don’t feel good to play around.
8 Likes

Reiterating this here since I see there is now a proper feedback thread for it.

Fae Transfusion (Shaman) needs a lot of help, especially for Restoration and Enhancement. The basics of this ability goes completely against all of the other Shaman-type spells, which is ultimately why it probably feels so clunky to play with in all forms of content.

  • It is a channeled ability (the only one Shaman has, to my knowledge) and requires you to channel for the full 3 second duration. This is deadly for Enhancement in melee, and requires you to cast no healing abilities for Restoration, which feels very clunky in the kit.

  • In order to achieve full effectiveness, you need to hit 4 enemies and heal 8 allies, else you will be missing out on potential power from this ability. In Raids this can only happen on AoE encounters, and it’s impossible to heal 8 friendlies in M+ or PvP.

  • The Healing done is only 25% of the damage dealt, which means if you hit less than 4 targets you are hurt significantly in the healing department.

  • The heal is only 8 yards around the player when you use it. This would often require Restoration/Elemental Shamans to move into melee to try to achieve full effectiveness, which feels very strange if you’re dealing with other mechanics.

  • Fae Transfusion is not a Shaman ability, and thus you cannot use it during Spiritwalker’s Grace.

  • Enemies have to remain in the targeted area the entire duration of the channel, else damage stops. (link to a clip of that happening: https://gyazo.com/dd9ef9c3892b02e04b3244dbb032d31c)

I’m sure there are many more issues, however without these things fixed this ability is quite literally unplayable by at least 2 of the Shaman specs (could be awful for Elemental as well) and it needs changing.

6 Likes

When engaging a raid boss, the Blessing of Seasons cycle defaults back to Blessing of Summer. In addition, any active blessings the Paladin had applied prior to entering boss combat are removed. Both interactions are extremely punishing and limit the strength of the ability. Please note: I am not saying that the Paladin should be able to alter the sequencing of the cycle (Summer followed by Autumn, etc.), but rather the player should be allowed the choice of which blessing comes first in that cycle.

The Blessing of Seasons cycle being forced to start with Summer is very punishing for all three Paladin specs. One of the best examples is Ret Paladin. Currently, the strongest blessing to have active during a Ret Paladin’s Avenging Wrath is Blessing of Autumn. Historically, numerous raid bosses each tier have the raid opt to use lust/hero on pull and a Night Fae Ret Paladin will have to use Blessing of Summer at this point. This paladin is now stuck in a lose-lose situation on when to use Avenging Wrath: they can use it on pull and miss out on the added strength from Blessing of Autumn or they can wait 30 seconds and miss out on the strength provided from lust/hero.

The cycle starting with Summer is punishing for Prot and Holy as well. Blessing of Spring is a very powerful healing done and healing received amplifier that both specs can utilize very well. However, they will not have access to this until 1:30 into a boss encounter. If there’s big burst damage event on pull, a Holy Paladin can never have Blessing of Spring available to respond to that damage. If there’s substantial tank damage a minute into a pull, a Prot Paladin can never have Blessing of Spring available. Players should be able to control when and how they use their throughput cooldowns. The current iteration of Blessing of Seasons does not allow them that agency.

In addition, Night Fae Paladins should be able to cast a blessing prior to entering boss combat and not have it removed. With these blessings on the GCD, every paladin spec is forced to spend the first global of every boss fight applying a blessing. It does not feel good to have a buff global at the start of a fight when it could easily just be a second before the fight begins. It does not make sense for the blessing to be removed when entering boss combat.

The current iteration of Blessing of Seasons removes all player agency in their first rotation of blessings in a boss fight. The following changes vastly improve all three paladin specs rotationally and provide them with the choice of how to maximize their covenant ability:

  • Allow paladins to predesignate which blessing to start a raid boss with and
  • Allow paladins to cast a blessing prior to the start of the pull

Without these changes, Blessing of Seasons will remain severely limited in the first minutes of a raid boss and likely see substantial periods where no blessing is being utilized so they can line up later in the fight. Instead, this ability should be controlled by the player and allow them to utilize it to its full potential as a major throughput ability like other covenant abilities.

4 Likes

Enjoying Soulshape as a DK. Wish it was off the GCD though.

1 Like

Hiya, got a bit into the Night fae questlines and have just hit where I need to find an instance group so may as well post my feedback so far:

_ The theatre was amazing. The references to no-one understanding Wods timeline, Illidan killstealing and sargeras’s sword miraculously missing anything major, Magni’s “woonz” etc were excellent. Highlight of the expansion for me so far!

_ As a Druid, Soulshapes a bit underwhelming as a class ability, its pretty close to literally our class’s schtick but given to all Night Fae members. Considering how many people playing Druids are likely to be drawn to Night Faes themes (both very Druidic), I propose making things a bit more interesting and giving DruidsSoulshape aura dressing room options for our base forms. It seems an easy way to make it more exciting to be a Druid in the Night Fae while hopefully not requiring too much development time.

_ Warning - Slightly Rant from an avid Night Elf fanboy :stuck_out_tongue:
I dislike the direction they are going with Tyrande in the Night Fae covenant line (well, really the way they are treating Tel’drassil as a whole) immensely.
Literally depicting a factions military genociding a race from the other and then just pinning it on 1 person and having every character, never mind Tyrande who is supposed to be mad with rage, not raise any issue with that is unrealistic and, honestly, a bit depressing.
I get that actually depicting long term fallout for the Horde, particularly the players (who directly participated in the act) in a 2 faction mmo isnt easy but the current direction is doing your narrative a disservice.

Please change Tyrandes lines to make it clear she blames the Horde soldiers at Tel’drassil as well as Sylvannas as logic would dictate.

_ No quest for checking on Rezan? Zandalari aren’t the same without their T-rex god, pretty sad he seems mostly forgotten. I was really hoping we’d get at least something for him here. Even just adding him to the pods we check and turn out fine would be something. Bwonsamdi is amazing as far as replacements go but you’re still breaking my heart here!

_ Thank you for making the former Night Warriors a gay couple. Double points for them not being afraid to be intimate on occasion (the kiss, for example). Representation matters and this was a very good touch. :slight_smile:

_ Moonberry is absolutely amazing and I am very sad she’s not a conduit option. I Like Dreamweaver don’t get me wrong but shes a whole new bar and I really hope we see a lot more of her in future!

2 Likes

Posting some additional suggestions by Seksixeny-Kazzak (cannot access NA forums)

Fae Transfusion should be able to be ST focused (maybe have a soulbind path allow it to hit multiple targets or alternatively to focus it into a single target) and redesign the ability a little bit in the following ways:

  • It should still do damage, with 1 target as default or an option, so it is possible to get more value out of it when needed.
  • The second activation heal of the spell should either be removed and become a leech effect for simplicity, or become able to be targeted, so it can serve as an emergency single target heal. Most importantly, it could give Restoration a small bit of Mana back, making it more interesting for us, because as it currently stands this is a very niche long cooldown AoE heavily focused on DPS. For Elemental and Enhancement it could simply do more DPS to compensate or also grant a little bit of extra resources such as extra Fulmination or Maelstrom Weapon stacks.

This idea was inspired by the beloved designs of “damage plus Mana back” trinkets of the past, such as the recent Forbidden Obsidian Claw and Legion’s Carafe of Searing Light, which have a lot of similarities with the direction the current design leans into with its “leech” effect.

2 Likes

I’m a bit concerned about the ‘support’ style ability for priest and similar hybrid classes in how it affects the ‘dps role’ specifically.

As a shadow priest it’s unclear to me how much personal ‘damage’ I stand to lose choosing night fae over other covenants who will have a dps ability vs my support ability ‘fae blessings’. Being a priest I don’t ‘hate’ the idea of a support-like underpin BUT I have a tipping point where I’m just NOT cool with being ‘support spec’ and am…a dps spec and want to remain one.

So my question is, how do the devs plan to balance night fae? How much personal sacrifice are we losing if we choose this path? Players need to know this kind of information so we know what we are getting ourselves into. Furthermore; if the individual dps sacrifice is ‘negligible’ then how do you even avoid the covenant becoming a pure pigeon hole?

How do you avoid the ‘double negative’ of “I lack a dps ability AND I buffed my buddy’s cds further widening the gap”

I’ll take it a step FURTHER and say; how do you prevent CD oriented classes getting way OP over non-cd oriented specs like shadow? The effects multiply on each other in a way that is surely going to break the game.

2 Likes