Feedback: New Dungeon Affix - Beguiling


(Kaivax) #1

In this thread, please post your feedback on the new Mythic Keystone affix: Beguiling, which is now testable on the Rise of Azshara PTR.


(Kaivax) pinned #2

#3

Seems like another affix that forces us to pull a certain way and restricts us from big pulls or pulling the way we want to pull. Can we just have another season of reaping instead of Infested 2.0?


#4

The current affixes for testing are Bolstering/Explosive/Tyrannical. So far, the Emissaries have been Bolstered from the deaths of other nearby enemies that are pulled with the Emissary. This seems very problematic, especially when the Emissary is placed in a pack with low-health targets. Reaping was adjusted to not be affected by most affixes (especially Bolstering), and I’m disappointed to see that this went on PTR with Bolstering posing an interaction problem for the Beguiling affix.

That being said, I hope the developers consider making the Emissaries affix-agnostic. I’m sure the community would rather not see these Emissaries bolster (or get bolstered), enrage, or apply necrotic.


#5

Wowhead link if you want to take part in the conversation but still haven’t tested it out yourself:


(Kaivax) #6

Please always consider testing something for yourself before providing feedback!


#7

Then please consider actually listening to feedback ?

Head over to the arena forums for 5 minutes, there’s feedback on PvE items still being active in arenas, pvp vendors and more!


#8

I tested the affix as well, but honestly it feels a little bit too powerful. Its just like bolstering with steroids. All i have to say is that imma avoid Beguiling with bolstering in that week.


(Etherealness) #9

I agree. But there in WoWhead we have some details that is not available in game IIRC. Like, they will rotate in position/pulls each week as stated in an interview.

Other than that, it gives you an idea from what to expect when going to test it out yourself.


(Vhye) #10

The new affix is awful. I ran a +12 King’s Rest. The adds were placed in such a way as to make the casters you absolutely must interrupt, uninterruptible. Watching a streamer run Atal’dazar, it’s clear this affix will also mean rogues are even MORE required to skip packs with certain beguiling adds.

The beguiling adds are not fun. In the slightest. I’ll go from doing 8-10 keys a week to doing the minimum required at this point. It’s like Infested - a bad affix - but worse.

I won’t even get into beguiling interacting with other affixes, because the whole affix is so bad, this is the least of my concerns.

Fundamentally, I think one of the design decisions here was “Let’s make people pull trash packs they don’t like to pull.” Have you considered, for even a moment, that there’s a reason we don’t pull those packs? Because they’re awful, unbalanced, and in short, poorly designed.

Update: Saw Motherlode on a stream. What a cluster - putting the no-cc/no-interrupt beguiling add around every refreshment vendor? That’s downright stupid.


#11

Beguiling is bad and is way more in the vein of Infested than reaping. The fun part of m+ is being able to create your own challenges by the size of your pulls, instead of being limited by an affix and being forced to pull a certain way.

I really hope this doesn’t make it to live as I do not think me or my friends are looking forward to Beguiling.


(Elenstelle) #13

Shroud of Concealment isn’t exactly 10,000 IQ strategy here.

Beguiling frankly just looks unfun to play. Reaping had moments of fun. I didn’t play during the Infested meta due to classes hampering my playtime so I can’t tell you how fun it was, but beguiling just looks unfun to me. And I expect to have some fun in my video games, dang it.


(Vareesa) #14

Did a KR 10 last night, was pretty annoying.

The reflect damage mob: By far the easiest. Able to pull away with healer and have them keep it out of the fight.

Unstoppable mob: Depending on where this mob lands is super annoying and painful to deal with. Will do more testing on how easy it is to pull away. It looks like it could be sapped from a few streams I saw? We didnt have a rogue in our group so we didn’t try that.

Hide from cast mob: This one is pretty tough. It gains ramping damage so the 1st cast is 50% of your life, 2nd is close to 100%, 3rd and onwards are 1 shotting your group. So you have ~24 seconds to kill this mob. Some spawn in areas of a dungeon that you cant LoS effectively and thus these are a nightmare.

As stated they get affected by bolster but don’t give bolster since they teleport away instead of dying.

Overall I dislike this affix, but will run a few more over the weekend.

Not stated though is the scaling form S2 -> S3. Currently a 10 key on ptr is equal to a 15/16 on live, where as S1 -> S2 was only a 13/14 -> 10 key.


#15

Enchanted Emissary: This is completely unacceptable. When it appears, the tank and healer have to use major cooldowns at the start to even get enough time for a dps guy to start knocking it away. Tanks can’t avoid damaging things, that causes wipes. Additionally, the mere existence of this mob requires you to 4 man the entire rest of the pull. The guy who chases the Enchanted Emissary will provide absolutely no help to the fight. Explosives? No time to spare. Interrupts? Hope you got ranged ones. Need to stand specific to not die ala Runecaver Sorn? Tough, you die, and the pull wipes. Also, there’s nothing you can do minimize the amount of time you have to face this impassable and impossible mechanic. You have to somehow live for 30 seconds while down an entire person.

This thing needs a complete redesign. It absolutely cannot go into the game like this. This is the worst designed thing of the entire expansion.

Void-Touched Emissary: This is completely fine. It’s better than fine actually. Feel free to put more things in like this which removes a required class from groups so the rest of us can actually play.

Emissary of the Tides: Whether or not this is OK is completely up to you guys. No idea where all of them are being spawned yet, but I know where they can’t be spawned. If you put these guys into groups that have more than one healer, or have absolutely must interrupt abilities, then you guys have failed as game designers. If you’re going to keep them in groups where it’s only a little more interesting because of the lack of CC, then great. This guy’s impact is completely binary. Either he makes the dungeon impossible, or he makes it slightly harder.

If you fail to keep them in the “slightly harder” groups, and put them in the “impossible” groups, you’ve made a serious mistake.

In summation:
Enchanted Emissary: Redesign completely. This is non-viable.
Void Touched Emissary: Good job, it’s great.
Emissary of the Tides: Do not put these in the wrong groups, otherwise, it’s fine.


#17

My thoughts after spending about 1.5 hours testing in 2 different +10 dungeons (Motherload and Tol Dagor). We were all 415-420 equipped.

  1. The Emissaries have too much health. Time to kill on each mob seem a tad long for how many are throughout the dungeon and for how dangerous they can be.
  2. Enchanted being able to be knocked back and vortex / Ring of peaced, is going to cause for a very exclusive meta. With Void being the only Emissary with True sight Rogues will still be top tier and resto druids will be more meta now. Personally I don’t think it should be able to be vortex or knocked back by player cc.
  3. Enchanted living for 30 seconds is also too long it just enforces the requirement for the few classes who can control them.
  4. Voids damage is too high. I don’t know what the intent of the emissary is but i feel the damage is high and having Void builds stacks seems excessive. Having something that is a healer check and single target check is fine but the damage from the emissary on top of the damage from trash seems to be a lot to handle. I would like to see his cast sped up but remove or cap his stacks to make it so one mob won’t brick a key.
  5. Tides seemed ok. With Tides being able to be full CC’ed he was easy to manage and straightforward. Only thing with Tides was his HP was a tad high and it felt like infest where it was there to slow the dungeon down.
  6. As said earlier in the thread having the Emissaries interact with the other affixes was pretty rough.

All in all I do not like the current version of the affix it feels slow and too powerful. I was hoping the new affix would help balance out the meta but its just going to reinforce it even more. Mythic Plus is viewed as one whole encounter and this affix makes it so every other trash pull feels like a separate encounter. I really do love pre planning my routes and that kind of thing isn’t an issue, but they really make the dungeons less enjoyable.


(Etherealness) #18

You’re forgetting ranged exists, right? I don’t blame you with the current M+ meta, lol.

The Emissary is there for rangeds to knock back and keep in check, or even healers.


(Vhye) #20

This here is a great summary of the underlying impact of this affix. Thank you!


(Metrohaha) #21

Does anyone know if there is an over-timer buff again like in Season 2?
If not, any reason why there isn’t?
Would you guys disagree with me if I said there needs to be one?


#22

Well, there really is a lot to unpack with the affix set.

The mobs themselves

The Tides Handmaiden is totally an infested mob that does not spawn the Ghuuni’s. How you end up dealing with the mob is an incidental way where you CC it, then pull the trash back, then you deal with the mob solo. This is actually horribly unfun by design.

The Enchanted Handmaiden is interesting for sure. I think this is the best designed because it kills itself, is relatively easy to deal with by any group of 5, and will not just totally destroy you.

Void… 1.) Void is so overtuned 2.) Truesight really? 3.) It requires too many resources to appropriately deal with relative to the whole dungeon for this mob.

So even though void spawns way less frequently than other Handmaidens, it is still insane. There will likely be something where you pull the trash out of the pack, get 60 yards away from the maiden so you’re not taking damage, and then you shadowmeld off the mob.

Avoid this mob at all costs.

How they interact with the dungeon
THEY GET AFFECTED BY AFFIXES?!?! Are you kidding me? Like they cannot reasonably get impacted by bolstering without being just ridiculous.

The mob choices per pack is suspect at best. The void maiden is in the Dervish pack in Sethraliss? Like really? 1.) the void dude is pretty much non skippable by design 2.) he does an absurd amount of damage and requires a ridiculous amount of resources 3.) you match him up with just stupid packs. This affix is totally ridiculous.

There should 100% be a positive side to this affix otherwise the affix will ruin M+ for all gamers.


(Niingdorei) #24

How is it not changing if? Or at least attempting to?

There’s a mob you can’t stealth past. And another that gets knocked back when you hit it. That reduces the advantage of rogues and strongly encourages bringing at least 1 ranged.

Now, the emissaries interacting with affixes is clearly incredibly dumb (and hopefully unintended or they change if), but they are trying in a situation where there’s too many changes that need to be made that can’t in the middle of the xpac.