Feedback-- Nazjatar


#29

That was my first impression of it. Feels more like Argus than Timeless Isle. I shall have to have another look at it though since that first poster saw it as

because I must have missed that part.


#30

Opinions are opinions


#31

Yeah but they want feedback not brownnosing.


#32

My feedback is to the artists. Ever heard of being polite?


#33

Edit: removed earlier response to Terreorc. This is more general feedback about Nazjatar.

I’m torn between the barrenness of the zone, and the ridiculous mob density of other zones like Drustvar or Nazmir. I know there have been a lot of complaints about such crazy mob density that you can’t run down a path without the chance of being dazed / dismounted because it’s just so packed.

Now we have Nazjatar with enough open areas and less density to allow for unhindered travel, and players think it’s too barren. I think there’s room for improvement to find a happy medium. However, if there are spontaneous events in this zone, perhaps having open space is appropriate? I know there are roaming elites whose path includes some areas that without said elites, would look too empty.


#34

From what I have seen so far this looks like Azune and Eye of Azshara island with some settle changes here and there with a darker theme throughout the landscape. I get the idea is to use previous assets and themes throughout future content, but this feels like Azune going through a time warp. I take it we are now going to take an alternative path through time again here, like we did with Draenor. With the exception of the creation of the initial concepts used to create the various current content areas of BfA. It seem between gear and future content. There just is not the feel that the art department, who by the way, was the last bastion of something wonderful from this company has simply gotten lazy when it comes to pushing their own limits. If the company’s, heart and soul is no longer in this game, then just stop with all the cookie cutting nonsense and developed another game worthy of your development time.


Rise of Azshara PTR Development Notes – May 22
Rise of Azshara PTR Development Notes – May 29
#35

If we’re comparing it to Legion, I’ll take patch 8.2 over 7.2. We get Nazjatar and Mechagon. But I do have other things to say too.

I think there’s a reason the night elf ruins in Nazjatar are similar to Azsuna. They’re both night elf themed zones and they’re both really old and abandoned.

Something that is a nice change though is the area around The Eternal Palace raid. It’s in perfect condition and everything looks magical in that small area.

One thing that could make the dark areas in Nazjatar better would have been adding a lot more glowing objects in the dark parts of caves or plants that could light up areas. I think it’s too late for that though.


#37

I think the dark theme fits better. I understand an underwater theme usually presents the opportunity for bioluminescence objects and/or wildlife, but this is the old center of Highborne life, whose leader was corrupted by an old god, agent of the Void Lords. The entire area was savagely dragged under the sea with the implosion of the Well of Eternity over 10k years ago in the game’s chronology, and over that time its denizens were transformed into the Naga that exist today.

Now that area has been brought back out from beneath the depths, it’s not going to be teeming with beautiful, exotic, and bright shiny flora or fauna. It’s going to be cold, dark, foreboding just like it existed at the bottom of the Maelstrom before it’s sudden reappearance.


#38

Agreed. Good point there.


(Niingdorei) #39

I feel like the primary story questline involving obtaining the Tidestone and unlocking the opening to the Eternal Palace raid really needs to be more obvious.

It is very hard to tell which quests are actually important and which aren’t. Having a legendary quest marker for those quests would be an immense help.


#40

I think part of that is because, for testing purposes, we’ve been dropped into an advanced state of Nazjatar. I would hope that when we do this live, the story and steps necessary to get to where we currently are on the PTR, will prove a better guide for what is ultimately the point of our characters coming to Nazjatar – the Tidestone and opening the Palace.

Actually in a few weeks when they do a character wipe of the PTR, we’ll have the chance to see how everything is intended to unfold, from the initial incident at sea to ending up here. At that point, we can see if there’s still a need for some additional guidance to what we’re supposed to be doing here.


(Niingdorei) #41

You’re right, though I don’t see the harm in making it a legendary quest marker.


(Kyrex) #42

The zone is visually interesting, but has some major flaws that make it rather unappealing. My feedback is solely art related.

• Whoever is in charge of putting fog in zones, seriously, needs to just stop. With as big of a render distance as we can have now, everything looks bad when object coloration and distance lighting is hazed out by very poor choices in fog color and the distance in which it begins. Take a lesson from the Inky Black Potion, or most of Vashj’ir: objects look better when their natural colors and lighting take precedent. The fog of war should remain something that obscures low LOD objects and rendering cutoffs and should only start appearing at a substantial distance. I play at Ultra10, I should never notice fog of war.

90% of the zones that use distance fog are way too aggressive with it. Fog is for background softening. Unless we’re in the middle of a rainstorm, neither the foreground or middleground should be hazed unless you’re using fog objects to emulate humidity. Using fog as a way to blanket a color across a zone to give an illusion of cohesion doesn’t actually do the eye any favors.

• The choice of reusing Azsuna assets, while logical, looks bland and lazy. Azsuna was already not a particularly remarkable zone all things considered, and the only thing it brought was a few select pieces of new elven architecture that was then recycled endlessly in both Azsuna and the outskirts of Suramar.

I don’t expect any major design shift to occur here, but I would highly recommend making minor tweaks to the architecture to make it distinctly Azshara. Even if it’s nothing more than an alternate texture with deeper, harsher blues for the stones and golds or purples as trim. Generic marble white doesn’t work here, and we just got done “ooh”-ing and “aah”-ing over it for two years less than a year ago. It’s very inappropriate timing to so heavily reuse these assets.

The rest of the zone that deviates away from this recycling look pretty stunning! It’s just a shame that it was ever decided to use Azsuna assets for even a fraction of it. Nobody wants to see these boring buildings again so soon, we JUST got done dealing with Farondis. Not to mention, we already have an island expedition that did.

• Reading other feedback, verdict seems mixed on the lack of use for bioluminescent effects, but I don’t believe that it needs to be mutually exclusive with darkness and old-god themes. Vibrant colors on a dark background offering very localized illumination tends to be eyecatching. As long as it fits the color scheme, sea urchins and other glowing objects that offer very limited light would be a great thing here. You already did this exceptionally well with the Underlight Canyon in the Abyssal Depths (though rendering in Vashj’ir is currently bugged to hell to the point of literal unplayability in Abyssal Depths, various screenshots of the place do it justice).

All in all, I hold the art team to a high standard. They almost consistently blow level design out of the water (pun intended) and have been a repeated inspiration to me for years. This zone, however, feels underwhelming and outside of the poor choice of Azsuna architecture, most of it could be easily (and hopefully will be) addressed. Given the visual marvel that was Vashj’ir - even if everyone hated the zone’s gameplay - I expected Nazjatar to be visually incredible with very clever uses of lighting and marvelous structures. Vashj’ir is still just the better zone.


#43

Extremely well put. I can’t agree with this more.


(Kyrex) #44

To help demonstrate what I mean by the fog.

Before:
imgur.com/9N6igHB
After Inky Black Potion:
imgur.com/TBkVwSs

Suddenly attention is drawn away from the useless rock that just stands there as decoration and toward the winding paths beneath it. Not only hat, but the statue of Azshara is more than just a semi-circle with spikes. I actually want to go down and investigate that place, whereas before the breathtaking vista is drowned out by fog.

Imagine that sight, but without the darkness that Inky Black Potion provides. I dramatically upped the gamma after taking the potion to get at least a vague idea of what it might look like:
imgur.com/itWQIpl

Proper In-game lighting without the fog would make that view absolutely stunning, and Nazjatar is full of views like that, especially when we get flight. I managed to climb a few of the rocks across the zone and got a pretty good look of the place, and from any point that is not the ground you walk on, the zone just looks bad.

Again but from a different angle - on top of that rock!
Before:
imgur.com/4bIIsZO
After:
imgur.com/QUvDHnc
After with slight settings change (I forgot to fix my brightness/contrast settings for the last one, this one looks better with just a gamma shift)
imgur.com/WCQ9gv8

EDIT: Fixed links. I was using <code> blocks instead of the `'s and it wasn’t letting me post them. Thanks, Vhx!


#45

All good points. BTW, when you put a link in this.format.com you don’t need to insert the spaces between .'s normally used for links because it’s not treated as a link. Just looks weird :slight_smile:

Also, Nazjatar should be inky black potion all the time!


#46

@Kyrex

I quoted your comments up at the top of the post! I wanna make sure it’s the first and last thing anyone sees regarding art feedback for Nazjatar.


(Niingdorei) #47

I’m not exactly sure what can be done with the zone at night but imo the amount of criticisms of the feel of the zone that were posted when the zone just opened at night and the zone was very dark.

Something needs done to make it look better at night. Maybe it will look better with more mobs, but it still will feel too dark imo.


#48

I think flight in Nazjatar and Mechagon should wait a month or two when 8.2.5 hits. I do agree, however, that you (pathfinder 1 holders) deserve flying in Kul’tiras and Zandalar before 8.2 though!


#49

I’m using using Warlock’s [Demon Skin] talent, and getting dismounted way more often than usual. :frowning: